Most influential rider

Here's a question, which rider, past or present do you belive has influenced GP racing the most? Who really left thier mark and changed the face of the Grand Prix championship, and why? I'm not talking about any aspect of the championship in particular, just on the whole.

I would say Kenny Roberts senior. To start with, the guy is a legend of the sport, with three back-to-back Championships to his name (It would have been four if not for a Estoril '06 type incident involving title rival Freddie Spencer), the first of which he won in his rookie year. But GP history is full of greats like that, and that's not why I'd say he's the most influential.
To start with his riding style was, in that time, out of this world, he began the knee-sliding and dirt-tracker style of sliding the rear. It worked, and worked well. Soon many riders were faced with two options, adopt Roberts' hair-raising techniques, or fall behind. The Roberts' style also got the tyre technology ball rolling. The way he leaned and slided really punished the relatively primitive tyres of the day. Manufacturers were forced to develop better tyres to compensate for this.
On top of that, I belive Roberts "raised the bar" in terms of the level of competition in the sport. Not to say guys like Ago, Sheene, Mike the bike and other greats who went before him weren't competitive, but Roberts bought a new level of professionalism to bike racing. He was a real thinker. For example, when he made the move to europe, to make up for his lack of track experience, he would find a quiet place and mentally go through the track. Then there was his determination. He was and is a man who knows how to work hard to achive his goals. I would quite confidently say that the level of determination and will-to-win GP riders seem to have today is a Roberts' legacy.
To top it off, after retiring from racing, he bacame actively involved in Team management, taking Yamaha 250 and 500 teams to victory at the hands of Wayne Rainey and John Kocinski, then moved on from the factory team to start his own team, building his own bikes, and has enjoyed success there too.
That's why I belive he's the most influential rider in the History of Grand Prix racing, what do you think?

Rossi is pretty influential.. before him.. riders weren't expected to get to the premier class as quick.. Biaggi, Capirossi, etc all stayed in the lower classes for ages... now the good riders are expected to rise up quick.. Kato, Pedrosa, Stoner, Lorenzo.. and if they don't meet the mark.. they will lose their jobs quick

I agree with most of your points about Kenny here, he has done a huge amount for the sport. But i did just want to add that he was not the first rider to develop the "knee down" style. In fact Jarno Saarinen was the first rider to hang his body inside the bike in turns, and having seen this, Roberts perfected the style, adding his wheel spinning to make it even more effective.

Another influential rider i feel is Barry Sheene. I have just finished reading his Biography, which was of course written for and by, people who like Barry. But he was the original biking superstar, and he brought the sport to the mainstream. In doing this he was essentialy the blueprint for the modern biker/icon. And he also did a lot of work for safetey and increase in earnings for riders (as did Roberts)

Yup I agree with Richo, to win world titles then manage a world championship winning team then set up your own team takes a hell of a lot of nerve and I don't thinkl it's been done before and will be a long time before anyone else does it.
Rossi is incredibly influential but not nearly as much as King Kenny.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 12 2007, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with most of your points about Kenny here, he has done a huge amount for the sport. But i did just want to add that he was not the first rider to develop the "knee down" style. In fact Jarno Saarinen was the first rider to hang his body inside the bike in turns, and having seen this, Roberts perfected the style, adding his wheel spinning to make it even more effective.

Youre sure? Well in that case Roberts must have been the first to really scrape his knees, because people thought he was insane when he went out with tape around his knees and came back with his leathers messed up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Jan 12 2007, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is pretty influential.. before him.. riders weren't expected to get to the premier class as quick.. Biaggi, Capirossi, etc all stayed in the lower classes for ages... now the good riders are expected to rise up quick.. Kato, Pedrosa, Stoner, Lorenzo.. and if they don't meet the mark.. they will lose their jobs quick

That's a very good point, I considered Rossi because of his popularity, but I didn't think of that at all. But, I think that rather than being pressured to move up, many riders are eager to move up quickly, taking the "If he can do it, I can do it" attitude to Rossi's rapid ascention to the premier class.

King Kenny Roberts.

When I saw the thread I was going to post up Kenny Sr. but someone beat me to it. Richo made every point that instantly came to mind. If I was going to say anyone else, I would say Doohan or Schwantz. Mostly because of Mick's dedication to the sport. Mick loved the competition and would risk it all to compete. That was extraordinary in his time and now its status-quo. Schwantz was the cowboy that everyone loved to watch. He had that winning is EVERYTHING attitude that is so prevalent now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagle088 @ Jan 12 2007, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick loved the competition and would risk it all to compete. That was extraordinary in his time and now its status-quo.

Yeah, Doohan really influenced his era in that so many would try to copy him in hope of discovering his secrets.

Great question to pose Richo. You can list out guys from Surtees and Duke to Read, Ivy, Ago and Hailwood, Roberts, Spencer and Sheene, all those guys have influenced racing and how everyone percieved the sport in their own time. Every one of these generations has its' trendsetter, someone who woke everyone up and set the bar that bit higher. In terms of todays racing it would be obvious to say Rossi, In my view Doohan did more, us mere mortals are still in awe at the determination and single-mindedness of that guy.

One guy that deserves a mention here, the first guy to properly explore the possibilities of using a 16.5 inch rear tyre, now the standard all teams use. The guy that single handedly discovered that when a tyre is spinning slightly, it will last longer than one that's in line, that the spinning keeps the carcass of the tyre that bit cooler and now all TC systems are designed to allow just that little bit of spin because of it. The same guy who won a GP or two spinning his way around, always on a soft compound tyre and had other teams wondering how the hell he did it. Garry McCoy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 13 2007, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One guy that deserves a mention here, the first guy to properly explore the possibilities of using a 16.5 inch rear tyre, now the standard all teams use. The guy that single handedly discovered that when a tyre is spinning slightly, it will last longer than one that's in line, that the spinning keeps the carcass of the tyre that bit cooler and now all TC systems are designed to allow just that little bit of spin because of it. The same guy who won a GP or two spinning his way around, always on a soft compound tyre and had other teams wondering how the hell he did it. Garry McCoy.

good point, Skid. McCoy dosen't get a lot of recognition for that. Then again, his style didn't really revolitionize the paddock. Maybe it should have, but you didn't see Rossi, Biaggi and KRJR out there sideways along the track. but he turned a few heads among tyre engineers, I'd say.

McCoy definately influenced the scene by usig the 16.5 tire, but once the other guys applied their styles to the superior tire, it seemed they could go faster than McCoy could. But good point annyway because he was the first guy to make it work.

And also, i am sure that Saarinen was the first rider to be putting his bodyweight inside the bike and hanging off, he was an engineer and had an excellent uderstanding of the bike he was riding and the physics involved. But it is quite possible the Roberts was the first to actually touch his knee down significantly, the point i was making though, was that Saarinen actualy influenced Roberts, so he must be pretty influencial himself.

Valentino Rossi

Lance Armstrong....cause he has only one MARBLE in his SAC.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Jan 12 2007, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lance Armstrong....cause he has only one MARBLE in the SAC.
Bit like you then aye?

I agree with Richo on this one. Kenny Roberts Snr casts a long shadow in the GP paddock. It's hard to argue with near on 30 years involvement at the top of the sport. Another aspect of his influence: his success opened the door for other Americans to follow, in particular Spencer and Lawson. And he was directly responsible for bringing in Rainey, Kocinski and... of course, Kenny Roberts Jnr.

Less influential, but still important--at least in Australian terms: Wayne Gardner. He raised the profile of GP racing, and motorbike racing in general, one hundred fold. As a result of his success, the Japanese factories and GP teams starting looking at Australian riders. Enter Magee, Doohan, Beattie, McCoy and so on...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 12 2007, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here's a question, which rider, past or present do you belive has influenced GP racing the most?
Hi Richo,

First of all, I like that you used the word “influential” (to mean lasting impact) because had you said “best”, man it would have really deteriorated. But the fair and balanced guy that you are, you chose the more debatable term. By the way, you suck for taking this topic away from me.

In my opinion: King Kenny Roberts. (There is a reason; he’s called the “KING”.)

Lets me start by saying, the general consensus so far is King Kenny. (and by some real powerhouses so far: Tom, Rising, Skid, Eagle, Etal. I would like to see the likes of Mr. Shupe, Burky, Roger, Baldy, Pete, etc. chime in.) So it would seem there is not too much to add. So I’ll try not to duplicate what most have already said. I’ll be brief.

Advent of Talent other than Europe: Especially America. King Kenny is credited for the emergence of the Americans to the scene. He wasn’t the first American (some guy named Hennen, I think was 1st to win a premier class) but he ushered in dominance for them. (We couldn’t let you Euros have all the fun). Which I believe also had a positive effect on the untapped talent in Australia and Japan much more seriously (can you say Doohan). And in doing so, changed the face of GP forever. (Side note: even today, as we speak, he has begun a project with an American dirt tracker to be managed in the support classes of GP).

Improved Safety: In the 50-60, there were many tragic deaths due to poor safety standards. (Does anybody remember the name of the Italian guy that died in Monza, I think 70-73?) King Kenny united the riders and became a voice for improved safety standards in the late 70s. Saving countless lives. This is perhaps for me his greatest sport legacy. Racing is fun for all, but the organizers, to a degree, began to look at it as a blood sport, and you know we just can’t look away at the preverbal “train wreck”, but King Kenny saw that the preservation of life was of ultimate importance. (And it was good for the prominence and longevity of our dear sport I may add, cuz frankly, dead guys don’t do so well on bikes).

Maturity of Sport and Professionalism: Which leads me to my next point, King Kenny was not only a voice for safety, but was instrumental in getting riders a fair share of prize money. This is a lesser-known fact. You see, back in the day, the riders were more like prizefighters than what they are today, virtual proprietorships. Mr. Sheene, the great Brit was such an attractive character, rock star status I think, that he helped give himself much notoriety, but it was Roberts, that turned this notoriety into a better compensation for the other riders though the improvements of professionalism. Which I believe led to the powerful global business MotoGP and it’s riders have become. It wasn’t always like this people, and it began in the early 80s.

Race craft: King Kenny was a dirt track champ. Perhaps the first person to apply this knowledge of how a bike handles to pavement and this style is still with us today. Think about this for a moment: rear wheel spin control. Not only was /is spectacular, but it is faster. Today, all the great champs and riders fine-tune their craft on dirt. On top of that, which Richo mentioned, he understood, from his experience on dirt (where traction is paramount) that weight shifting could in fact produce an effect on the bike that allowed for greater enter and exit corner speed. Traction-the ever illusive and staple of modern day puzzle to be solved by all riders (and now a computer chip) had its beginnings with the rudder action of King Kenny sticking out a knee and holding the bike through the fastest line. I don’t recall which of the plethora of videos he mentions it, but he does say that he was the first to employ this technique. And yes, the first knee puck was tape. How’s that for impact on a sport. (Damn it, I know the answer but, who was the guy who came up with the back protector?) Anyway, this was a major leap forward in the area of race craft.

Leadership: There have been many great leaders of the sport. Has anybody ever heard the saying: “Lead by example.”? This thread isn’t about the personal achievements on the track, but we all know King Kenny has them. One could easily argue that he was the best rider, along with the very short list of who’s who in this illustrious sport. But it was his professionalism and blue collar, some would say, ultraistic commitment to improve the sport for all connected, rider, organizer, and spectator, that has continued to impact MotoGP.

Honorable Gentleman: Finally, as they say, “sport emulates life”, King Kenny reciprocated this idea. Through honorable principle, showed that, as in life, values such as honor, courage, and commitment, should also be emulated in sport. That is perhaps the greatest of his legacies. As a father, which has been his greatest of all accomplishments, he has reared a fantastic and decent human being. Who else has actually fathered a World Championship?

I'm sure I left out some other stuff but most of it was "off the cuff" as they say. I'm sure some other more knowledgeable guys will chime in.

Umm.... if someone read through that entire essay, could they summarise it for me please? o.0

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IsraeliRacer @ Jan 12 2007, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Umm.... if someone read through that entire essay, could they summarise it for me please? o.0

Would love to: King Kenny is the "King".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Jan 12 2007, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yup I agree with Richo, to win world titles then manage a world championship winning team then set up your own team takes a hell of a lot of nerve and I don't thinkl it's been done before and will be a long time before anyone else does it.
Rossi is incredibly influential but not nearly as much as King Kenny.


For me I cant decide between Mike Hailwood Kenny Snr and Barry Sheene. Hailwood for his ride anything, he'd ride an MZ for nothing coz they were good and couldnt afford to pay people, pure racer, pure genious,. Kenny Senior, the father of modern Racing. Period. Barry Sheene for living the Rock Star lifestyle.

Pete

Me, I havent even joined the paddock, let alone buy a bike yet but people are already feeling the mighty sting of my motorcycle might on the race scenes.
Mladin is too scared to race me.
Bayliss said I would take his job away.
And Rossi says I am his protege.
King Kenny, said I am replacing his son at the throne.

But seriously, King Kenny Roberts is the man to fit the bill.

King Roberts for President!