Monster Energy Grand Prix České republiky 2017

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J4rn0 said:
Marquez is not only the fastest rider in flag to flag conditions, but the smartest one as well. Consider that normally the teams keep the second bike identical to the first one at start time, to have a backup ready if anything happens on the grid; but Marc stopped at the end of the second lap (with no signal from the pits) and found the second bike ready with dry setup and slicks. So the move was planned, no way the second bike could have been ready otherwise. And he probably let the others pass him so they couldn't see him entering the pits so early. It worked out perfectly.
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What tyres were they changing on the grid?
 
Iamapony said:
He didn't have a choice, and he has said so. He was dropping through the field like a 2 ton anchor through shallow water. He might have crashed, if he went another lap or he would fall 30 seconds down for sure. I agree about him being able to warm up his tire quicker than most, but Dani came out blazing on the slicks, too. So what does that tell us? He was already 10+ seconds down, however, so he would never have to race MM, which I am sure he is happy about.
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Marquez does play down everything he does. As j4 said his second bike was in the pits ready to go at the drop of the flag. While I have no confidence in Michelin I do find it hard to believe the tyre dropped off that much in half a lap. Marquez has over the last couple of years played his cards extremely close to his chest and likes to tell the media that things that have happened are just luck.
 
J4rn0 said:
Marquez is not only the fastest rider in flag to flag conditions, but the smartest one as well. Consider that normally the teams keep the second bike identical to the first one at start time, to have a backup ready if anything happens on the grid; but Marc stopped at the end of the second lap (with no signal from the pits) and found the second bike ready with dry setup and slicks. So the move was planned, no way the second bike could have been ready otherwise. And he probably let the others pass him so they couldn't see him entering the pits so early. It worked out perfectly.
Click to expand...

If that's true, and it sound good, he is one devious mofo.
 
Keshav said:
Not sure what to make of the race. Fair amount of drama, but not great racing really.
Hate flag to flag. Good to see Vinales looking on form. If Ducati had their .... together Dovi could have easily had 2nd. Lorenzo's getting good at holeshots, tho not much else. At least the points spread is still pretty tight,

1. Marc Marquez Repsol Honda Team 154
2. Maverick Vinales Movistar Yamaha MotoGP 140
3. Andrea Dovizioso Ducati 133
4. Valentino Rossi Movistar Yamaha MotoGP 132
Click to expand...

At least there were no events inspiring more tire conspiracies. It was a shame that Dovisioso didn't switch bikes sooner.
 
J4rn0 said:
Marquez is not only the fastest rider in flag to flag conditions, but the smartest one as well. Consider that normally the teams keep the second bike identical to the first one at start time, to have a backup ready if anything happens on the grid; but Marc stopped at the end of the second lap (with no signal from the pits) and found the second bike ready with dry setup and slicks. So the move was planned, no way the second bike could have been ready otherwise. And he probably let the others pass him so they couldn't see him entering the pits so early. It worked out perfectly.
Click to expand...
You sound like Nick Harris. "Oh, he planned it, he planned it". What about all those other riders who pitted that lap or one lap later? Their bikes were all set up for dry, too, were they not? The Yamahas were ready, too. The only ones apparently not ready were the Ducatis. Pedrosa said he could have come in on the same lap as Marquez, but chose not to do so, because he had the firmer wets, like most of the field, and the track was still wet. They all say the same thing. Marquez gambled that he could handle the damp track with slicks, because, well, his tire was shot, and he's probably the best sob out there - under any condition - with any tire - that's why.
 
RD might want to inspect Honda's time machine to see if it has any devices or shapes protruding from the fairing or bodywork and not integrated in the body streamlining (eg. wings, ns, bulges, etc.) that may provide an aerodynamic effect (eg. providing downforce, disrupting aerodynamic wake, etc.)
Personally I think time travel for weather forecasting,may not be in the spirit of the rules.
Another yellow mist errr myth has dissipated. The sly,wily veteran is none of the above adjectives.
He has proven multiple times befuddled when it comes to strategy. I think they should allow communications, at least to his bike. It's getting embarrassing
 
Iamapony said:
You sound like Nick Harris. "Oh, he planned it, he planned it". What about all those other riders who pitted that lap .....?..... Marquez gambled that he could handle the damp track with slicks, because, well, his tire was shot, and he's probably the best sob out there - under any condition - with any tire - that's why.
Click to expand...

Who were "all the other riders" who pitted together with Marquez? I saw only Pol Espargaro, maybe there was the other KTM too. That's it. Either they also planned it, or they just copied Marc. But they were irrelevant, as MM's real rivals pitted 1 or 2 laps later. Each lap worth 8-10 seconds, more or less.

About Marc's soft rain tire, it was a stupid (and strange) tire choice for those conditions. I think only Barbera did the same thing (probably he copied MM, ahah...). Why on earth choose a soft rain tire on a drying track, if he really wanted to take off fast? The opposite was called for.

But he knew he would pit in two laps, so... ;)

He would probably have won anyway, but certainly not by 20 seconds. Marquez is exceedingly fast and confident, but also a very shrewd competitor. And now the Honda works very well: a tough combination to beat for all the others.
 
J4rn0 said:
Who were "all the other riders" who pitted together with Marquez? I saw only Pol Espargaro, maybe there was the other KTM too. That's it. Either they also planned it, or they just copied Marc. But they were irrelevant, as MM's real rivals pitted 1 or 2 laps later. Each lap worth 8-10 seconds, more or less.

About Marc's soft rain tire, it was a stupid (and strange) tire choice for those conditions. I think only Barbera did the same thing (probably he copied MM, ahah...). Why on earth choose a soft rain tire on a drying track, if he really wanted to take off fast? The opposite was called for.

But he knew he would pit in two laps, so... ;)

He would probably have won anyway, but certainly not by 20 seconds. Marquez is exceedingly fast and confident, but also a very shrewd competitor. And now the Honda works very well: a tough combination to beat for all the others.
Click to expand...

Agree. "Evidence" as it were, is circumstantial - but the counter intuitive choice of the soft wet (for me) clinches it. Makes sense he'd use the wet tire that offered the greatest advantage for the limited amount of time he would be out, before pitting for the change over. Mark is no dope. Why else would a guy who's known to favor a hard front, be motivated to go with the soft? Logically speaking it appears to have been very much premeditated.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but given how light the rain was, I don't understand how it is that other teams didn't have slicks mounted on the 2nd bikes.

And hey, even Nick Harris gets it right once in a while.
 
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J4rn0 said:
Who were "all the other riders" who pitted together with Marquez? ......
Click to expand...
Folger, Smith, P. Espargaro and Miller on the same lap as Marquez
So, are all these guys sneaky geniuses, too?

Next lap:
A. Espargaro, Abraham, Redding, Lowes, Iannone, Barbera,
What about these guys? They must be smarter than Vinales and Rossi, that is for sure. No?

MM explains in the post interview that he changed tires on the grid and planned to go hard for 4-5 laps and then come in to change tires, but it backfired because he was 19th in the second lap. He did not deny thinking the track would dry out. He just misjudged how fast it would happen.

Apparently people here believe you can change a motorcycle from a wet set up to a dry set up in one and a half minutes. I suggest that this whole forum should be the pit crew for who ever, because they are guaranteed a championship with the supernatural mechanical abilities of Motogpforum.com

Again, Pedrosa's bike and the Yamahas and MOST backup bikes were set up with slicks. So how the hell was Marquez being so tricky? He gambled and won. He could have lost, just as easily.
 
Iannonne drops it (with help) in the pits - https://streamable.com/2kxvm



As for Lorenzo.

It is said that his Ducati had not been started when he entered the pits to swap bikes - if so, then that is a serious major FU by Ducati.
 
Iamapony said:
Folger, Smith, P. Espargaro and Miller on the same lap as Marquez
So, are all these guys sneaky geniuses, too?

Next lap:
A. Espargaro, Abraham, Redding, Lowes, Iannone, Barbera,
What about these guys? They must be smarter than Vinales and Rossi, that is for sure. No?

MM explains in the post interview that he changed tires on the grid and planned to go hard for 4-5 laps and then come in to change tires, but it backfired because he was 19th in the second lap. He did not deny thinking the track would dry out. He just misjudged how fast it would happen.

Apparently people here believe you can change a motorcycle from a wet set up to a dry set up in one and a half minutes. I suggest that this whole forum should be the pit crew for who ever, because they are guaranteed a championship with the supernatural mechanical abilities of Motogpforum.com

Again, Pedrosa's bike and the Yamahas and MOST backup bikes were set up with slicks. So how the hell was Marquez being so tricky? He gambled and won. He could have lost, just as easily.
Click to expand...

I think we could get a group together that could change the four tires on Jlo's bike faster than his crew did.

Marc has often been the first one in to change bikes in these conditions, not waiting for the heard. Where as Rossi has for years ignored his pit board, smoke signals, and now text screen staying out longer then he should. Marc came in because that tire was .... but if it wasn't he still would have won. If he chose to pit on lap 3 or so he would have been fine still.
 
Iamapony said:
Folger, Smith, P. Espargaro and Miller on the same lap as Marquez
So, are all these guys sneaky geniuses, too?

Next lap:
A. Espargaro, Abraham, Redding, Lowes, Iannone, Barbera,
What about these guys? They must be smarter than Vinales and Rossi, that is for sure. No?

MM explains in the post interview that he changed tires on the grid and planned to go hard for 4-5 laps and then come in to change tires, but it backfired because he was 19th in the second lap. He did not deny thinking the track would dry out. He just misjudged how fast it would happen.

Apparently PEOPLE HERE believe you can change a motorcycle from a wet set up to a dry set up in one and a half minutes. I suggest that this WHOLE FORUM should be the pit crew for who ever, because they are guaranteed a championship with the supernatural mechanical abilities of Motogpforum.com

Again, Pedrosa's bike and the Yamahas and MOST backup bikes were set up with slicks. So how the hell was Marquez being so tricky? He gambled and won. He could have lost, just as easily.
Click to expand...

Why are you lumping us all in with J4's 'conspiracy' theory?
 
Iamapony said:
Folger, Smith, P. Espargaro and Miller on the same lap as Marquez
So, are all these guys sneaky geniuses, too?

Next lap:
A. Espargaro, Abraham, Redding, Lowes, Iannone, Barbera,
What about these guys? They must be smarter than Vinales and Rossi, that is for sure. No?

MM explains in the post interview that he changed tires on the grid and planned to go hard for 4-5 laps and then come in to change tires, but it backfired because he was 19th in the second lap. He did not deny thinking the track would dry out. He just misjudged how fast it would happen.

Apparently people here believe you can change a motorcycle from a wet set up to a dry set up in one and a half minutes. I suggest that this whole forum should be the pit crew for who ever, because they are guaranteed a championship with the supernatural mechanical abilities of Motogpforum.com

Again, Pedrosa's bike and the Yamahas and MOST backup bikes were set up with slicks. So how the hell was Marquez being so tricky? He gambled and won. He could have lost, just as easily.
Click to expand...

Sheep following the leader.

I missed something? Who implied he was denying Marquez's intuitition than the track was drying out. So what if he miscalculated the number of laps?

Who among us have implied that bikes can be changed over in under two minutes???

Why so snarky?
 
Little Walter said:
Spoke too soon.
Click to expand...

I agree with JPS that Dorna are on board with having substandard tires because they think it gives greater variation in the results.

Problem is as he said in relation to F1 when Bernie (from whom Ezy no doubt go the idea) did the same it mixed up the results for year or so then the big teams went back to prevailing because they could spend more on adapting to the tires. He anticipated the same would eventually happen in motogp; I agreed with him then, and still do now.

Dorna might also have backed the wrong Goat in choosing Rossi over Marquez, btw.
 
michaelm said:
I agree with JPS that Dorna are on board with having substandard tires because they think it gives greater variation in the results.

Problem is as he said in relation to F1 when Bernie (from whom Ezy no doubt go the idea) did the same it mixed up the results for year or so then the big teams went back to prevailing because they could spend more on adapting to the tires. He anticipated the same would eventually happen in motogp; I agreed with him then, and still do now.

Dorna might also have backed the wrong Goat in choosing Rossi over Marquez, btw.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it a might've at this stage. It was a stupid decision choosing the 38 year old who wins a race or two a season and hasn't had a championship since '09 over the 24(22 when they threw him under the bus) year old that's won 3 of 4 championships and continues to rack up race wins. Rossi is on the best bike with tyres that should suit him and he still can't seem to mount a serious challenge to Marquez. Choosing the less talented, less adaptable, slower and older guy was stupidity.
 

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