Mat Oxley on CRT bikes

birdman · Feb 18, 2013

While back in the day I liked the 750cc capacity, no one is going to buy one if a 1000cc weighs the same, costs similar but has 30 more horsepower. The fireblade and R1 killed the 750. Going back there alienates the market.

If greater differentiation is required I would prefer to see SBK racing remain the same level of technology (ie not be dumbed down) but rather evolve towards a blend of sprint and endurance racing aspects. More fuel, more laps, more tyre management strategy, electronics that have a purpose.

Then Motogp can remain the ultimate sprint race formula.

Andy Roo · Feb 18, 2013

povol

3437031361205138

Back in the day, 10th was 10th, now 10th can earn you a spot on the podium. You can go home with a smile, knowing you were best cheapest loser on the day

Like special Olympics.

Why don't they put an egg in a spoon on the bike and you can only get a prize if you don't break your egg.

In a recent swim race I was first ...... home. I got my picture in the paper. Later on that night I got a chance to lick some windows in the pub.

But I'm still a ...... and the real swimmers had 10 minutes on me over 3km's. I know that the following occurred.

People speak more slowly to me because I walk on two sticks (like Jimmy on Southpark)

Really the only people who gave a .... where I finished were friends and if I didn't play in a band with the newspaper editor they would have printed a feel good story about a cross eyed red headed kid who got a pet ....... kitten instead.

.... CRT, what an embarrassment

CRT - because Ezy pays the media to ignore crossed eyed red headed kids with kittens

Dr No · Feb 18, 2013

povol

3437031361205138

Back in the day, 10th was 10th, now 10th can earn you a spot on the podium. You can go home with a smile, knowing you were best cheapest loser on the day

And to continue my point....he would love to have had a 10th place finish....

BJ.C · Feb 18, 2013

Andy Roo

3437191361235817

Like special Olympics.

Why don't they put an egg in a spoon on the bike and you can only get a prize if you don't break your egg.

In a recent swim race I was first ...... home. I got my picture in the paper. Later on that night I got a chance to lick some windows in the pub.

But I'm still a ...... and the real swimmers had 10 minutes on me over 3km's. I know that the following occurred.

People speak more slowly to me because I walk on two sticks (like Jimmy on Southpark)

Timmy!!!!!!

Sorry, you strike me more as Timmy than Jimmy

Dr No · Feb 18, 2013

Andy Roo

3437191361235817

Like special Olympics.

Why don't they put an egg in a spoon on the bike and you can only get a prize if you don't break your egg.

In a recent swim race I was first ...... home. I got my picture in the paper. Later on that night I got a chance to lick some windows in the pub.

But I'm still a ...... and the real swimmers had 10 minutes on me over 3km's. I know that the following occurred.

People speak more slowly to me because I walk on two sticks (like Jimmy on Southpark)

Are you certain this is the reason?

Really the only people who gave a .... where I finished were friends and if I didn't play in a band with the newspaper editor they would have printed a feel good story about a cross eyed red headed kid who got a pet ....... kitten instead.

That kitten, does it belong to Barry?

mylexicon · Feb 18, 2013

birdman

3437131361226911

While back in the day I liked the 750cc capacity, no one is going to buy one if a 1000cc weighs the same, costs similar but has 30 more horsepower. The fireblade and R1 killed the 750. Going back there alienates the market.

Then don't go back. Build a special run of rare, technologically-advanced 750cc phantoms. Homologate them for road use in major SBK markets, but keep the production quantities low enough so they can only really be observed at the track. If they want to do something really unique, lop a cylinder off of the current 1000cc bikes to create a new SBK brand. The 1000s can be GP replicas or whatever the manufacturers want.

birdman · Feb 18, 2013

mylexicon

3437391361246834

Then don't go back. Build a special run of rare, technologically-advanced 750cc phantoms. Homologate them for road use in major SBK markets, but keep the production quantities low enough so they can only really be observed at the track. If they want to do something really unique, lop a cylinder off of the current 1000cc bikes to create a new SBK brand. The 1000s can be GP replicas or whatever the manufacturers want.

Id rather see them do that in motogp than SBK. SBK has a nice progression from amateur and stock bike racing right up to pro WSBK level all with a common 1000cc that is initially bought stock, gets a pipe job and power commander and off they go. Its mostly down to the rider to make the difference. It aint broke, dont fix it (Carmelo).

Motogp not so much. Used to be on 500cc, the difference then was more clearly the size of the balls in the sack.

Id like to see an all out 750 series. If they took all the shackles of the 800's, ran them flat out with fuel and tire wars I reckon it could have been a successful formula and then they wouldnt need to change anything.

mylexicon · Feb 18, 2013

birdman

3437411361249966

Id rather see them do that in motogp than SBK. SBK has a nice progression from amateur and stock bike racing right up to pro WSBK level all with a common 1000cc that is initially bought stock, gets a pipe job and power commander and off they go. Its mostly down to the rider to make the difference. It aint broke, dont fix it (Carmelo).

Did we slip through a crack in the space time continuum? You're talking as if it's 1999.

This is 2013. None of the major national championships use the same rulebook. By dumbing down the stock bikes and smarting up the racing bikes, the FIM and IMS have created an SBK diaspora. Perhaps an ASBK rider is riding a Superstock machine with a pipe and a power commander, but if he jumped to AMA or BSB, he'd have to learn to ride the same bike with another 30hp on completely different tires. In BSB he wouldn't have rider aids, but in AMA he'd have prototype electronics.

You wouldn't notice SBK was broken until 10 years after it was gone.

It's perfectly normal that we would all have our own preferences for SBK. It is not perfectly normal that half of the fans do not realize that SBK/GP are sailing through troubled waters. What is required? Will celestial beings need to descend from the heavens to get their attention?

birdman · Feb 19, 2013

WTF are you on about? An amateur starts with a bike, minimal modifications such as a pipe and a dyno run and starts racing. What part of progression dont you understand? Its far better now than the old days when one dude turned up with a homologation special 750 to race a bunch kids on near stock bikes. oh I get it that would be like motogp is now, factory vs CRT.

Certainly there must be a break in the time space continuum to want to repeat the mistakes of 990 motogp and change SBK capacity. If thats the celestial being's solution for SBK I tell them to .... off back to Mars.

mylexicon · Feb 20, 2013

birdman

3437561361268051

WTF are you on about? An amateur starts with a bike, minimal modifications such as a pipe and a dyno run and starts racing. What part of progression dont you understand? Its far better now than the old days when one dude turned up with a homologation special 750 to race a bunch kids on near stock bikes. oh I get it that would be like motogp is now, factory vs CRT.

Certainly there must be a break in the time space continuum to want to repeat the mistakes of 990 motogp and change SBK capacity. If thats the celestial being's solution for SBK I tell them to .... off back to Mars.

This discussion never pertained to amateur racing, nor are homologation specials to blame for the club racing organizations that homologated them. Furthermore, the 1000s will not be dispatched, but you've made a point regardless. The amount of irrelevant whining and shadenfreude would probably doom 750cc SBKs to 800cc GP status, no matter how advanced the 750cc SBKs were. It would be better for marketing optics, and perhaps better for cost structure to replace the 600s with 3-cylinder 750s.

Homologation specials need to be reincarnated, though. The 1000cc SBK formula has done enough damage to the SBK racing industry, and the national championships shouldn't spend half of their marketing budget trying to justify their rules-making decisions. If all professional series have homologation specials, the industry will become more efficient, and more people will be racing as professionals, rather than complaining about the undeserving rich kid with the nice bike.

Zootalaws · Mar 4, 2013

Dr No

3434351360797536

Nice point.

However I just laughed his mathematics: the CRTs are only <cough> 1.7 percent slower than prototypes.

An hour long race....1.7 percent....a minute back. "not a huge difference".

And this is an argument <u>for</u> CRTs, Mr (massive promoter of 4 strokes entering the series) Oxley??

They are, as you (and others, while I was typing) state, a different series, racing a different race.

Nothing points to this more than the top CRT entering parc ferme alongside the top 3.

You should look at some of the results from the late 80s 500 racing. The CRTs are much closer in performance and time than some of the lesser teams were in the 'golden days' - which people seem to hold as being the pinnacle of racing.

A privateer on an RG-A compared to Rainey on a YZR... they were lapping everything from 10th place on.

Here's an example: Jerez 1989:

Pos Rider Manufacturer Time/Retired Points

1

Eddie Lawson Honda 55:11.260 20

2

Wayne Rainey Yamaha +10.170 17

3

Niall Mackenzie Yamaha +17.480 15

4

Christian Sarron Yamaha +27.300 13

5

Freddie Spencer Yamaha +51.000 11

6

Pierfrancesco Chili Honda +1:19.040 10

7

Ron Haslam Suzuki +1:29.450 9

8

Tadahiko Taira Yamaha +1:43.440 8

9

Dominique Sarron Honda +1:46.870 7

10

Alessandro Valesi Yamaha +1:53.860 6

Haslam on a 'factory' Suzuki was one and a half minutes down from Lawson. Sarron (no slouch!) was nearly a minute and three quarters off. The guys in 29th place were laps down.

Things are much, much closer now.

Jumkie · Mar 4, 2013

BJC<sup>2</sup>

Zootalaws · Mar 4, 2013

.... off you miserable .....

No, he's a lot nicer than I am. He will just ignore you. I will haunt your every miserable wordy self-opinionated, blowhard post.

Jumkie · Mar 4, 2013

Oh dear, what will I do with all this fear? I'm shaking in my bones. I'm being "haunted". Oooo, so scary. :....:

Internet tough guy. Let me guess, you get your balls from wikipenis.

Dr No · Mar 4, 2013

Zootalaws

3447081362462359

You should look at some of the results from the late 80s 500 racing. The CRTs are much closer in performance and time than some of the lesser teams were in the 'golden days' - which people seem to hold as being the pinnacle of racing.

A privateer on an RG-A compared to Rainey on a YZR... they were lapping everything from 10th place on.

Here's an example: Jerez 1989:

Pos Rider Manufacturer Time/Retired Points

1 Eddie Lawson Honda 55:11.260 20

2 Wayne Rainey Yamaha +10.170 17

3 Niall Mackenzie Yamaha +17.480 15

4 Christian Sarron Yamaha +27.300 13

5 Freddie Spencer Yamaha +51.000 11

6 Pierfrancesco Chili Honda +1:19.040 10

7 Ron Haslam Suzuki +1:29.450 9

8 Tadahiko Taira Yamaha +1:43.440 8

9 Dominique Sarron Honda +1:46.870 7

10 Alessandro Valesi Yamaha +1:53.860 6

Haslam on a 'factory' Suzuki was one and a half minutes down from Lawson. Sarron (no slouch!) was nearly a minute and three quarters off. The guys in 29th place were laps down.

Things are much, much closer now.

Welcome back, ZOot,

I watched all those races. I remember the guys like Rudroff flummoxing about on RS500s (and there was some 'merican fatty who used to trundle about) bringing up the rear.

I don't disagree with MOx's (nor your) argument that the CRTs shouldn't be bagged for being slow. There have always been nails. But overall MOx's argument is also a bit of a non sequitur. To wit; Don't diss CRTs, because there's been slow bikes in the past.

I don't dislike the CRTs in of themselves that much. I dislike the two-class series that has been created - with CRTs showing up on parc ferme FFS.

I don't know whether you've read the whole thread, but I think I've said all this before.

Andy Roo · Mar 5, 2013

Internet fight?

Everybody hold on, I have to put the kettle on

Now go for it!

:boxing: :bicycle:

sama: :ninja: :ninjastar: :hunter: :gun2: :girl_werewolf:

:giveup:

birdman · Mar 5, 2013

Zootalaws

3447081362462359

You should look at some of the results from the late 80s 500 racing. The CRTs are much closer in performance and time than some of the lesser teams were in the 'golden days' - which people seem to hold as being the pinnacle of racing.

A privateer on an RG-A compared to Rainey on a YZR... they were lapping everything from 10th place on.

Here's an example: Jerez 1989:

Pos Rider Manufacturer Time/Retired Points

1 Eddie Lawson Honda 55:11.260 20

2 Wayne Rainey Yamaha +10.170 17

3 Niall Mackenzie Yamaha +17.480 15

4 Christian Sarron Yamaha +27.300 13

5 Freddie Spencer Yamaha +51.000 11

6 Pierfrancesco Chili Honda +1:19.040 10

7 Ron Haslam Suzuki +1:29.450 9

8 Tadahiko Taira Yamaha +1:43.440 8

9 Dominique Sarron Honda +1:46.870 7

10 Alessandro Valesi Yamaha +1:53.860 6

Haslam on a 'factory' Suzuki was one and a half minutes down from Lawson. Sarron (no slouch!) was nearly a minute and three quarters off. The guys in 29th place were laps down.

Things are much, much closer now.

Those guys may have been slow, on old spec 500's. But they still have bragging rights, namely 'I once rode in a world championship gp on a 500cc against Wayne Rainey!'. Thats cool.

These days, 'I rode a CRT against Lorenzo'.

You rode what?

I rode a CRT.

WTF is that?

Better idea, "I rode a 5 year old 990 against Lorenzo". Sounds and is much more impressive. Idea to Carmelo, let old design prototypes back in the championship. Of course to do that you must stop changing the rules dipshit.

Dr No · Mar 5, 2013

' xactly.

My friend's brother that I mentioned earlier in the thread?.Top finish of 14th. 2 whole points. Best laps within 4/5 sec of Doohan.....

In a season where Kanemoto got Luca' s white NSR to the top step, twice.Where the late lamented Norifumi sooked at Suzuka. Even Chucker won one.

Not a bad thing to look back on in your dotage.

(had to dig out an old Motocourse for all that...now drooling over photos of V4s...strokers thank ....)

BJ.C · Mar 5, 2013

birdman

3447171362471348

Better idea, "I rode a 5 year old 990 against Lorenzo". Sounds and is much more impressive. Idea to Carmelo, let old design prototypes back in the championship. Of course to do that you must stop changing the rules dipshit.

Hey, I rode Stu Avant's RG500 against the clock - does that count? (I was ...., BTW... and .... myself... those things were fkn ridiculously hard to ride fast.)

To be fair, it was on bagged tyres and on Sunday morning after a rather trouble-filled Saturday night... The funniest part was looking for the kickstarter...

But I am definitely with you on the changing rules front. I think it was Gresini that said their main costs were related to having to throw the data away and start again every couple of years.

BJ.C · Mar 5, 2013

Zootalaws

3447101362462669

.... off you miserable .....

No, he's a lot nicer than I am. He will just ignore you. I will haunt your every miserable wordy self-opinionated, blowhard post.

You are a ...... I told you he was a ..... Just do this, it's much nicer round here:

<span style="color:rgb(119,119,119);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(250,251,252);This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore trite, self-indulgent, bullying posts by Jumkie<span style="color:rgb(119,119,119);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(250,251,252);. View it anyway?

Mat Oxley on CRT bikes

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