Lorenzos Dad - Simoncelli Comments

Bunyip said:

Well, I care. And if you feel that you have done your job fighting the good fight then well and good, but there is a certain arrogance developing in that you have developed all the ideas to your satisfaction and that that therefore precludes anybody else developing their own lines of thought. Just because you post 10 to every one of mine, doesn,t make you the forum nanny and is strong evidence that you have had more than enough turns to say what you want. If you have had enough, don,t read what I say and don,t respond any more. You have that choice. I hope you allow me the choice to post.................I would be very grateful if you did.



As I stated previously, the circumstances right now create an environment where certain truths can finally sink into the consciousness of many here, whereas previously people had the lack of imagination to be able to comprehend these concepts adequately. I may reach the finality that you have obviously achieved to your satisfaction a while ago. I wish I had your tranquil satisfaction.

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Your problem is you just cant bear even in death as it has become apparant threads talking about another rider other than stoner !

In your sick childish mind you probably blame simo for maring stoners championship. It really sticks in your gut that nobody is really talking about that which is why you have tried to interject him into every thread regardless of the topic.

Get help buddy, you need it !

Bunyip said:

Well, I care. And if you feel that you have done your job fighting the good fight then well and good, but there is a certain arrogance developing in that you have developed all the ideas to your satisfaction and that that therefore precludes anybody else developing their own lines of thought. Just because you post 10 to every one of mine, doesn,t make you the forum nanny and is strong evidence that you have had more than enough turns to say what you want. If you have had enough, don,t read what I say and don,t respond any more. You have that choice. I hope you allow me the choice to post.................I would be very grateful if you did.



As I stated previously, the circumstances right now create an environment where certain truths can finally sink into the consciousness of many here, whereas previously people had the lack of imagination to be able to comprehend these concepts adequately. I may reach the finality that you have obviously achieved to your satisfaction a while ago. I wish I had your tranquil satisfaction.

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I don't understand why the failure of some people to understand Stoner's massive ability 4 & 5 years ago needs to be discussed here and now, especially on this thread.



As MichaelM correctly states, only fuckwits and crash denizens can "honestly" still believe that Stoner is not the standout talent that he most obviously is. As for arrogance, MichaelM has always been a measured but inpassioned poster IMHO.



The current circumstances should bring a need for reflection with Dan Wheldon and Marco Simoncelli gone in the space of a week. Massa failed big time to understand this today despite his close call with the guy with the scythe a couple of years ago. Stoner did not fail to understand. I think you could perhaps take a leaf from his book.

It took less than 7 days for this place to be dragged back to the .... again. Well done.

Double

Goatboy said:

It took less than 7 days for this place to be dragged back to the .... again. Well done.

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I was about to say the same thing, what a way to respect Marco's memory.

I give up. People come to the wrong conclusions. My posts have NOTHING to do with defending Casey,s abilities, but ALL to do with giving due respect to ALL the riders and treating them as valuable human beings and not the object of our own preconceptions or fantasies. If some of you fail to grasp this quite simple concept, then I have been quite obviously wasting my time...............



Some of you keep harping on about Simoncellis legacy. Well perhaps, if you thought a little bit more deeply about it, you would truly respect his memory by feeling privileged to watch the remaining amazing talents, that risk their lives on a regular basis for our gratification. And not treat them with contemppt when they fail to meet your unrealistic standards of perfection.





Think about it..............

Bunyip said:

I give up. People come to the wrong conclusions. My posts have NOTHING to do with defending Casey,s abilities, but ALL to do with giving due respect to ALL the riders and treating them as valuable human beings and not the object of our own preconceptions or fantasies. If some of you fail to grasp this quite simple concept, then I have been quite obviously wasting my time...............



Some of you keep harping on about Simoncellis legacy. Well perhaps, if you thought a little bit more deeply about it, you would truly respect his memory by feeling privileged to watch the remaining amazing talents, that risk their lives on a regular basis for our gratification. And not treat them with contemppt when they fail to meet your unrealistic standards of perfection.





Think about it..............

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It's not what you said, originally.



But if it's what you mean, I'm in agreement as are amost all the posters since last weekend. Maybe you should look back and check it out - We have all thought about it deeply. Many have wept for the loss of one of the bright stars who should have been part of our future.



Like I said, reflective is good. Riders who have been at loggerheads with Simoncelli all year are finding it in themselves to reflect and come to a different conclusion than before this happened.



I hope you find your "tranquil satisfaction" at Valencia. Peace.

Whilst I agree with Bunyip and Mental that the things said previously about Stoner were despicable and often outight lies - the same thing has also been in evidence with regards to Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Rossi and many other riders.



Whilst I admire all the riders on the grid I do think at times they are due some criticism.....if it is kept in perspective and context. Unfortunately it often isnt. Stoner's physical assault of RdP. Pedrosas taking down of Hayden in 2006. Rossis continued sniping at his fellow competitors. Lorenzos staged pantomimes etc etc are all examples of what I am talking about.



I dont think that posters such as Talpa and Woody expressing regret about some of their own comments is somehow hypocritical. The fact is that when tragedy strikes we often look inward and realise just how petty and childish we can sometimes be....the ugly side of human nature is something that surfaces in all of us from time to time.



However, I dont believe it is beneficial to anyone under the current circumstances to continually look back and cite examples of this type of behaviour in a ...-for-tat point scoring execrise - otherwise we can never move forwards. I feel that if people do suddenly realise the error of their ways and then work to try and improve themselves in this respect it is a good thing and should be encouraged.....if after giving them this chance they then continue to act in much the same manner criticism is warranted and you have every right to call them on it and the hypocrisy label is thus completely justified.

Mr Squiggle said:

Whilst I agree with Bunyip and Mental that the things said previously about Stoner were despicable and often outight lies - the same thing has also been in evidence with regards to Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Rossi and many other riders.



Whilst I admire all the riders on the grid I do think at times they are due some criticism.....if it is kept in perspective and context. Unfortunately it often isnt. Stoner's physical assault of RdP. Pedrosas taking down of Hayden in 2006. Rossis continued sniping at his fellow competitors. Lorenzos staged pantomimes etc etc are all examples of what I am talking about.



I dont think that posters such as Talpa and Woody expressing regret about some of their own comments is somehow hypocritical. The fact is that when tragedy strikes we often look inward and realise just how petty and childish we can sometimes be....the ugly side of human nature is something that surfaces in all of us from time to time.



However, I dont believe it is beneficial to anyone under the current circumstances to continually look back and cite examples of this type of behaviour in a ...-for-tat point scoring execrise - otherwise we can never move forwards. I feel that if people do suddenly realise the error of their ways and then work to try and improve themselves in this respect it is a good thing and should be encouraged.....if after giving them this chance they then continue to act in much the same manner criticism is warranted and you have every right to call them on it and the hypocrisy label is thus completely justified.

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Fantastic insight. Thank you

HEISMAN said:

Fantastic insight. Thank you

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Thanks...and welcome to the forum

Bunyip said:

but ALL to do with giving due respect to ALL the riders and treating them as valuable human beings and not the object of our own preconceptions or fantasies.

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I have obviously misunderstood at least your intent, but this is pretty much what everyone has been doing, including talpa with whom you and I have battled, who has rightly or wrongly been a severe critic of stoner and has resolved to change his attitude, hence my frustration at you apparently "harping" about old events which seemed to risk perpetuating the cycle.



Appropos of nothing to do with recent events or this thread, I obviously agree unwarranted things were said about stoner when he had an imo genuine illness in 2009, but this ultimately worked in his favour with hrc at least not believing it and signing him to the benefit of his career. He seems a loyal type, and without the mystery illness and marlboro man's response he may have stayed a career ducati rider and like kevin schwantz have retired with only one championship.

if sic had not of died, then everyone would of said the same thing as lorenzos dad, in particular coz he injured another rider... yeah its the truth.

Goatboy said:

It took less than 7 days for this place to be dragged back to the .... again. Well done.

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Exactly.........bunch of ......s.You really think Lorenzo Snr would go out of his way to offend Sics memory ? ......` IDIOTS !!!

DRILL said:

Exactly.........bunch of ......s.You really think Lorenzo Snr would go out of his way to offend Sics memory ? ......` IDIOTS !!!

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I dont think he did it on purpose, its just who he is. A person with zero tact and sensibility of the moment. It may be for that reason, that he is kept out of the spotlight by team Lorenzo. Even though Jorge undoubtedly agrees with the premise of his dads statement, he also understands that the timing was bad. Parents are forever embarrassing their kids, but this is not a Bermuda shorts, white socks and wing tips moment. The fact that Jorge called out his dad in the press says it all.

Pinky said:

if sic had not of died, then everyone would of said the same thing as lorenzos dad, in particular coz he injured another rider... yeah its the truth.

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A Pinky post I agree with. Without Simo's passing the analysis of the racing incident would have been very different.

Keep moving, nothing to see here............



I don't believe in sanctifying the dead, but I also think that dragging up old scores in this thread at this time is wrong

Thank you very much Horhay, the most important thing for me is that Horhay said his words in the funeral day, and now also answers his own dad. Good on you mate, this shows he is the man of himself.

Well if the dad thinks that Marco was not mentally ready as a racer...lorenzo dads was not and is not mentally capable of beign a father to a MotoGP racer, AS a racer need to be prepared for all out comes and a parent you must carry themselves above all else and be strong when your your child can not and be there backbone to pursue wins.........I think Lorenzo is more then his dad and he is the one the needs to be checked mentally

michaelm said:

I have obviously misunderstood at least your intent...

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Friend, you didn't misunderstand the intent. I get that you employ a diplomatic take on all opinions, but that should not preclude you from calling it as you see it rather than acquiescing to every lame denial. Its fairly evident Bunyip and a few others are in full old score settling mode, then spend the rest of their post trying to deny this is what they are doing. The lady doth protest too much...

Bunyip said:

I give up. People come to the wrong conclusions.

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I really wish you would give up, but I suspect you will continue to make an ... of yourself regard old scores. No, we came to the right conclusions, mainly that your are acting like a child, pouting about. All your denials fool very few.



Now man up, admit you went beyond the pale, maybe get back a little respect, and move on.

Mental Anarchist said:

Wow, I thought you observed MotoGP. I didn't think you were such a shallow observer. It is surprising to me that you would admit on this forum that you are unable to determine if a rider is thinking about their strategy in a race or that perhaps you think all the riders line up on the grid with out one.



I also thought you read MotoMatters where Krop who from my observations knows a .... load more about the sport than you and I and actually sits across from the riders and asks them direct questions as well as doing the same to many paddock insiders. Seeing as though you don't read and or analyse the sport I will bring you up to speed. Krop has stated categorically that Sic is not very intelligent.



So based on the respected opinion of an insider and my observations of racing tactics I think it is a fair assumption that Sic was not overly intelligent and didn't have the mental capacity to win a championship against the greatest riders at the pinnacle of the sport. There is also sufficient precedent to suggest that minor class titles does not automatically conclude that skill and mental capacity is sufficient for premier class success.



... So in a nut shell why don't you pull your hypocritical head out of your arse.

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Mental, I know you were replying to Rog, however, I think I'll give a bit of input here if I may. It’s an interesting way you closed your post. Reminds me of Bunyip's rant where he starts off point the "hypocrisy" of people's personal reflections regarding Sic (as if anybody can assess this from afar), then says, but don't "castigate me" for expressing my feeling on Sic's death. That should have made most pause at the depth of misconnection.



Now calling out Roger because he can't read minds of the riders? I admit right now then too, that I cannot determine what the riders are thinking either regarding their strategies, and if you can, you are a much better man than me. Almost reminds me of a member who claimed he could detect the level of TC from watching beyond the fence at the track. I've heard riders explicitly state that they are unsure of their strategy for a race and may just develop one on the fly as events unfold during the race itself.



Regarding Marco's intelligence, I suppose there is a spectrum. Do I think he was as smart as a rocket scientist, probably not, but then again, most rocket scientists couldn't ride a GP bike like Marco either. In reflection, do I think he was unintelligent enough, no. I really can't determine where he would have ranked in IQ test among his 17 peers. He sounded funny in English, but I probably would sound pretty dumb in Italian.



Citing Kropo, assuming he stated, "categorically that Sic was not very intelligent" would also give me pause to ponder just how accurate was his assessment. Kropo is still human right? So I’ll assume he is fallible. I don't quite remember Kropo being as adamant as you say, but I could be wrong. Maybe a link would help clarify his opinion of the man's intelligence. Or we could just ask him, as he stated, he has no problem being honest about the dead. Though I wouldn’t use his respected opinion as an ATM machine to make a water tight case about somebody’s intelligence as he had only met the man a very few times (that I do remember him saying).



I'm not going to touch the argument that Sic could have or not won a premier class title, as I'd rather not engage in a debate that I would characterize in the way you closed your above post.