Lorenzos Dad - Simoncelli Comments

I was a Simo fan, funnily enough I didn't see him as a championship winner either. There are only 3 riders in that field who have a snowflakes chance in hell of winning a championship.



He was going to be a race winner and definitely a championship changer, the wild card, the fly in the ointment and all of that. Having him there was always going to show you good riding, desperate riding and tons of passion.



If you were to ask prior to death of Simo who is the rider most likely to have a career ending crash/fatality most of us would have answered Simo, it was the way he rode and raced, on the edge.



Sadly I would have put Stoner high on the list as well, the way he rode around the problems that horrible Ducati possessed and his lap after lap of razors edge riding much the same. Backwards through the field they all show increasing levels of caution.



Saying so is not a great sin, however timing and tact have a place and there will be months, in fact a whole off season for this accident to be dissected in detail, the foreseeable answer is that young men love racing, have a bias to optimistic outcomes and take risks.



Sometimes things occur that no one would foresee, a racetrack isn't terribly different to the rest of the world.

Never good timing comments like these with fresh wounds due to a loss but they have some merit and would be said sooner or later......

The record shows this season SuperSic made some costly errors early causing harm to other riders and concerns but as the season neared the end started to "think" more - would this have led to a WC in the future as mentioned ? whilst Lolli and CS are in the game I think it would be very hard for any other rider to take titles of either of them the next few years but a race winner or spoiler here and there for sure !

Andy Roo said:

I was a Simo fan, funnily enough I didn't see him as a championship winner either. There are only 3 riders in that field who have a snowflakes chance in hell of winning a championship.



He was going to be a race winner and definitely a championship changer, the wild card, the fly in the ointment and all of that. Having him there was always going to show you good riding, desperate riding and tons of passion.



If you were to ask prior to death of Simo who is the rider most likely to have a career ending crash/fatality most of us would have answered Simo, it was the way he rode and raced, on the edge.



Sadly I would have put Stoner high on the list as well, the way he rode around the problems that horrible Ducati possessed and his lap after lap of razors edge riding much the same. Backwards through the field they all show increasing levels of caution.



Saying so is not a great sin, however timing and tact have a place and there will be months, in fact a whole off season for this accident to be dissected in detail, the foreseeable answer is that young men love racing, have a bias to optimistic outcomes and take risks.



Sometimes things occur that no one would foresee, a racetrack isn't terribly different to the rest of the world.

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Thats what it boils down to.

Kropotkin said:

A journalist interviewed Chicho Lorenzo, and asked him questions specifically about the danger of MotoGP, and Simoncelli's riding. What is he supposed to answer?

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Thats the point!



The timing is bad.



I am really sad simoncelli died. Seriously. I was watching the race and couldn't believe that there's a rider in this very class I love and follow very intensively the whole year long, who has to DIE.



I don't think that right now is the time to talk about simoncellis ridingstyle. Many people spoke out about that before (I'm one of them) and those people (the critics) were right.



I think that if simoncelli could come back for one more day, maybe he would apologize to Lorenzo and riders like Bautista, etc. which he has talked very bad about.



My point is:



I'm really sad he died. But what I don't like to read is that everyone is making an angel out of him right now (I dont mean this forum! Didnt follow it since sics death very much). The german press reads like he would have been "the next rossi" in terms of how much the fans loved him. I dont think this is true. Everyone is a Simoncellifan now that this tragedy has happened. I think there are quite some people who talk different to when he was alive and thats lousy in my opinion. Before more people said he's a danger in the sport.



My opinion is he was a danger for other riders on the track and a guy I didnt like to see in MotoGP. But im very sad a nice guy "offtrack" had to die in this sport.



Hope you don't get me wrong.



R.I.P. Marco Simoncelli

Kropotkin said:

A journalist interviewed Chicho Lorenzo, and asked him questions specifically about the danger of MotoGP, and Simoncelli's riding. What is he supposed to answer?

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Look the jurno in the eye and say "now is not the time for these questons" thats what he should have said. I think the jurno fished to get controversy and lorenzo snr made and error of judgement in falling for it.

chopperman said:

Look the jurno in the eye and say "now is not the time for these questons" thats what he should have said. I think the jurno fished to get controversy and lorenzo snr made and error of judgement in falling for it.

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Bingo. Jorge's dad is not an upfront persona in GP. As a matter of fact, this is one of the few times i can remember him even being quoted. Sometimes, if your not used to the spotlight, you .... up your 15 minutes of fame.

To argue Marco might hav never won a WC, is about as valid as arguing Stoner would not hav won a WC based on his first year in the MotoGP class. Useless excercise with the added benefit of making the poster sound as valid as the merits to the argument.





Edit to add, same could have been said after two first years in 250s. WC 2008-fact. Nobody knows what might hav been. Arguing for/against...really?

Jumkie said:

To argue Marco might hav never won a WC, is about as valid as arguing Stoner would not hav won a WC based on his first year in the MotoGP class. Useless excercise with the added benefit of making the poster sound as valid as the merits to the argument.

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Yeah and then to go on and say marco was not very intelligent geez that poster can rank a persons iq by watching him ride on tv.

povol said:

Has anyone noticed that most of the great riders of today, all at one time were labeled crashers.



Rossi, Stoner, Pedro, Lorenzo. The four aliens are great because they find the limit, and you can unfortunately only find the limit one way.

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Very true.

Kropotkin said:

The lessons from Jill Singer are "don't be so ....... lazy and short-sighted, and don't fight your own personal vendettas ignoring the facts, you moronic ......"



I strongly suggest you read this book: http://www.amazon.co...19823902&sr=8-2



It makes a compelling case for the truth over lies to appease our sensibilities. I am aware that it is politically correct to gloss over the faults of dead people.



And for what it's worth, I spoke to Simoncelli only a few times. He was always friendly and polite, and I never heard a bad word against him from anyone who worked with him regularly with fans. I believe he was a fundamentally good person.



To me, this is not about Simoncelli, it is about treating dead people the same way you treat living people: with the honesty and respect that they deserve. Producing a distorted version of them, in my opinion, and I am aware that I am virtually alone in this, does more harm to their memory and legacy than they deserve.

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That is my take on it too. Don,t get too caught up in what Roger (chopperman ) thinks. He is prone to emotional outbursts, and is quite likely to take a polar view within a few months.



Tact, .......................Appropriate timing.................?? I wish you (Roger) had employed similar sensitivities to Stoner when he had his various issues in previous years. I know that deep down you are a loveable big lug, but you do make me chuckle quite a bit with your fickle moralities.

Regarding Simoncellis crashing.... I think it is more an issue as to what danger he represented to his fellow riders. As said previously, Lorenzo was just as bad in early years, but as the top category is reached, the speeds are much higher and the risk of injury commensurately more dangerous. Therefore there is a greater onus on the riders to attain a higher degree of safety and skill. As most participants would have been racing for many years, this tended to be a natural consequence for most. However Simoncelli stood out for his lack of improvement in these areas. A bit of a loose cannon. As Krop said, it took the Pedrosa incident for the racing commission to finally sit him down and read the riot act. AND, it appeared to be working. Since then, safe overtakes. And riding safely did not prevent him from a brilliant 2nd at Phillip Island. I disagree with Jrno that he HAD to ride dangerously to be successful . PI proved that. Everything now is redundant, and that is a huge shame, because, with his new "respect" for fellow riders, Simoncelli was becoming a rider that I could fully appreciate and admire. A huge loss.

Bunyip said:

That is my take on it too. Don,t get too caught up in what Roger (chopperman ) thinks. He is prone to emotional outbursts, and is quite likely to take a polar view within a few months.



Tact, .......................Appropriate timing.................?? I wish you (Roger) had employed similar sensitivities to Stoner when he had his various issues in previous years. I know that deep down you are a loveable big lug, but you do make me chuckle quite a bit with your fickle moralities.

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Ad hominem

chopperman said:

Ad hominem

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Ad hominem doesn,t apply here. You are using it as a refuge to avoid proper scrutiny. Its funny how people discover a new phrase and want to apply it to everything. Come on, you didn,t even know what it meant 6 months ago. haha. I can imagine you and your mates at the pub using ad hominem in regular conversation.(irony)

Bunyip said:

Ad hominem doesn,t apply here. You are using it as a refuge to avoid proper scrutiny. Its funny how people discover a new phrase and want to apply it to everything. Come on, you didn,t even know what it meant 6 months ago. haha. Do you know what fickle means?

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What has this thread got to do with stoner? you feel the need to bring your god into every subject. All i said was lorenos dad made an error of judgement in answering the juno. You then added nothing to the debate but instead attacked me on a different issue (stoner). As far as i see the phraze fits. Besides i still think very low of you for your disrespectful post regarding Simos death, so go .... yourself !



http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=14553&view=findpost&p=298484



You use this tragdy to try and score points. Buddy i think your slime !

povol said:

Bingo. Jorge's dad is not an upfront persona in GP. As a matter of fact, this is one of the few times i can remember him even being quoted. Sometimes, if your not used to the spotlight, you .... up your 15 minutes of fame.

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Absolutely. Quite possibly 15 minutes of fame he in no way sought either. He has ...... up and said what he really thinks, which is probably influenced by his son's previous attitude and defending it, and his fears for his own son. It would have been smartest not to do the interview in the first place at this particular time.



Having said that some of what he unguardedly said is not necessarily wrong and would be quite interesting at a better time, particularly concerning managers pushing other people's sons too hard which presumably refers at least to jorge's old manager from whom he had a rather definitive divorce.

You protesteth too much..............................





Does that mean you are no longer my friend, friend?





Scoring points?? Every debate here is scoring points to a degree if you want to be pedantic.





I have been fully respectful of Simoncelli. How does merely pointing out discrepencies with other posts constitute disrespect. If you want to try hard enough you can be offended by anything .Most of the points I have made have similarly been made by numerous other posters. Rewriting history under the cover of tragedy is poor form. Disrespectful and cowardly. If you cant cope with measured debate without resorting to abuse (the last refuge of the debatingly challenged) that is a shame. I still love you.



PS. As a hermaphrodite, I will with MUCH pleasure accede to your request.

povol said:

Has anyone noticed that most of the great riders of today, all at one time were labeled crashers.



Rossi, Stoner, Pedro, Lorenzo. The four aliens are great because they find the limit, and you can unfortunately only find the limit one way.

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I do remember a certain Casey Stoner crashing what seemed like every other race on his lcr honda.

and regarding to lorenzo's dad...it's disgusting.

Bunyip said:

You protesteth too much..............................





Does that mean you are no longer my friend, friend?





Scoring points?? Every debate here is scoring points to a degree if you want to be pedantic.





I have been fully respectful of Simoncelli. How does merely pointing out discrepencies with other posts constitute disrespect. If you want to try hard enough you can be offended by anything .Most of the points I have made have similarly been made by numerous other posters. Rewriting history under the cover of tragedy is poor form. Disrespectful and cowardly. If you cant cope with measured debate without resorting to abuse (the last refuge of the debatingly challenged) that is a shame. I still love you.

PS. As a hermaphrodite, I will with MUCH pleasure accede to your request.

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You guys are still operating in 2009-2010 mode. Stoner is vindicated, he doesn't need any defence from anyone, on threads related to him or not.



The only question vaguely relevant to stoner concerning this thread is whether he will continue himself, given impending fatherhood, his previously declared attitudes etc. There is no contest involved, but he is one rider who has looked terribly upset by all this.