Sureley we are talking about intelligence in a very specific context. IQ tests and language skills are not the key points, but racing intelligence, relative only to his peers. Even within that there are arguments for the pro's and cons of an 'intelligent' approach compared to a perhaps less measured but more natural 'feel' based approach to racing. The clearest example of something like this would be Senna and Prost, or McLarens two current drivers to give a more recent example.
Lorenzos Dad - Simoncelli Comments
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Sureley we are talking about intelligence in a very specific context. IQ tests and language skills are not the key points, but racing intelligence, relative only to his peers. Even within that there are arguments for the pro's and cons of an 'intelligent' approach compared to a perhaps less measured but more natural 'feel' based approach to racing. The clearest example of something like this would be Senna and Prost, or McLarens two current drivers to give a more recent example.
I am not sure what you guys are all doing when you watch the racing and read reports, comments, opinions in the media and on this forum but I had always assumed you were looking in depth, formulating opinions, testing those opinions against what you see or read next time etc. I am a little shocked to find that that is not occurring.
I have read in the lounge and other areas of the forum you and others including Rog talking about politics and other topics with out sitting down and having a chat with Obama. How are you forming opinions on the motivations of Obama or any other politician? When you go to work do you not analyse between the lines of how you are going what your boss thinks etc. When you interact with any other human being do you not form opinions or make judgements of the interaction based on anything else but the literal meaning of the words that come out of that persons mouth.
I am literally shocked Jum that you are trying to tell me that you have not formed an opinion about how any rider out there goes about their racing and then have not thought about why they go about it in that manner.
Sic was not new to the sport, he was not a rookie. He is riding allegedly the most superior bike on the grid with full factory support yet he throws it down the road in the first few laps more often than not. The last time he did it it killed him. Now unless there was some persistent mechanical issue with his bike or he had some physical disability that created the issue then I can only assume that he had a mental deficiency that created the re-occuring problem. This is not something new for someone to state this in regards to a MotoGP rider as we saw Stoner vilified for 5 years for such things. Now subsequently it has been proven beyond a shade of a doubt that it was the bikes deficiencies coupled with Stoner's preparedness to go past the limit that created the persistent crashing but the hypocrisy comes when those people who vilified Stoner for crashing claiming mental weakness now try to claim that I have no right to or ability to make an assessment that Sic riding abilities and how they related to potential for winning WC's at this level were hampered by his intellectual capacity.
As far as time and place, well, some people may have a different view on death. I for one don't hold all this respect the dead ......... I would be more inclined to argue for respect the living. Not that I read it as I don't even look at the threads that are still covering the RIP stuff because I see them at the top and think to myself ".... get over it people" but that is just me and I am not in those threads telling people to do that. So when people come on other threads telling me to "time and place" and "respect the dead" I think go F your self. Everyone dies.
I think what in all this which has given people, even those usually outspoken, pause is the argument the australian murdoch journalist has made, incorrectly imo, concerning whether bike racing is a sport where riders risk death for our entertainment. It is certainly something I thought about, like jorge's father, when I keenly followed a family member with rather more athletic talent than I had playing a somewhat dangerous sport at a reasonably high level.
Cadel Evans, the australian cyclist who won the Tour de France this year was asked specifically about the simoncelli accident and said "life is for living", whilst acknowledging the tragedy of similar occurrences in his sport and that unnecessary risk should be minimised. With guys like marco and most top competitors wanting to ride bikes fast in competition with others I am sure was the starting point as others have said far before remuneration and performing for TV came into it.
Btw cycling is a sport which would possibly be banned before motor bike racing if it was decided to ban dangerous sports, with similar or more accidents at the elite level to motorbike racing for similar reasons, there being nothing between the bike and the environment in the event of mishap, but a significant percentage of competitors at least until the very recent past also running considerable medical risks in addition with doping/performance enhancing drugs. The first blood dopers ran an extraordinary risk.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Dude , this is not about the dead. Its about having a little respect for his loved ones. They are the ones suffering, not Marco. The way the Simoncelli's have handled this whole tragedy is inspiring and 1000% class in every way. They do not deserve to have some ....... telling the world that their son is dead because he was judged to be mentally defecient by said ........ Im sure if someone showed up at your moms, dads, brother or sisters funeral and said, sorry about your lose, everybody dies, so .... em. And by the way, he/she might still be alive if he / she were not so ....... stupid, you would be ok with it. .... it, they are dead, right.
Get real. I didn't turn up to his house, his funeral nor have I addressed his loved ones in any way. You do give far too much credit to this little MotoGP forum.
May I say the same about your government and mine when we say bad luck to the family of the collateral damage as we drop bombs on their innocent family members? A little perspective please. Sic was one guy doing something that he loved fully aware of the risks. People are dying out there, no, being murdered out there through no fault of their own just trying to eek out a life caught in the cross fire of some delusional national pride mixed with greedy capitalism. Where is your bleeding heart for them? I would say your blind patriotism for your criminal government that instigated an illegal war, that has taken 100,000's of innocent lives dragging my government in on the back of "your with us or against us" ultimatum makes you more of an ....... than I will ever be.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Wow, I've found common ground with MA! I thought that this is what PS (and its liberal moderation policies) was for... opinions. We're outsiders and absolutely no one on the inside, or in Marco's family, gives a .... about what we think - we're here to entertain ourselves with fellow enthusiasts. I feel far more grief for an innocent life lost as corollary of hegemony than I do for someone who's lost their life doing the thing they love best.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
What do we know about this guy, Lorenzo's father? Nothing, but what the press decides to gives us, at the time of their choosing. Obviously they will choose a time for maximum impact. What if, 365 days a year he has been saying this same thing over and over, yet no one gives a ....?
You betcha, at any other time no-one would give a toss no matter how important his message was. At any other time what he said means absolutely nothing to us. But lets all shoot the messenger anyway, since he's obviously an arsehole with no respect. Note his message if followed might possibly save lives. Who cares, he's still an arsehole?
You betcha, at any other time no-one would give a toss no matter how important his message was. At any other time what he said means absolutely nothing to us. But lets all shoot the messenger anyway, since he's obviously an arsehole with no respect. Note his message if followed might possibly save lives. Who cares, he's still an arsehole?
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Ah Babel...what has become of you? From the same 'vantage point' he was also able to ascertaine the riders bank details, what colour underwear he was sporting under his leathers, and the flouride content of his toothpaste.
Your arrogance is astounding. You an "arm chair" specialist see yourself fit to judge simo's intelligence and everyone who disagees with you had their head up there ... or doesn't know about racing
As for crashing, As said by another poster, all the fast riders started this way, in fact in 06 i defended stoner for this saying he was just finding his feet. Rossi crashed quite a bit during his first year on a 500 which is why Robberts jnr won the championship. How do you know where the line is unless you have stepped over it ?
You made the comment, you failed to back it up. You provided no link to the alledged krop comment and as far he has not posted his thoughts on Simos intellegence. You went out on a limb and failed !
Ahh that all very sweet but whats your views on MA judging Marco did not have the intelligence to be a world champion ?
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
He reiterates his view on this subject a number of times in this thread and suggest he is not alone in thinking this way citing a rather unflattering three letter acronym summoned from his own nickname ....
One of my Italian journalist friends says that Simoncelli's nickname, SIC, stands for "spegna il cervello". Switch the brain off ...
http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=14295&st=0
Krop was not the only one suggesting that Sic was not the brightest of riders....I and many others also questioned his intelligence. I dont think it is unreasonable to suggest that this was the case and his untimely death whilst tragic should not preclude people discussing this topic. But I do think some people must also realise that we are dealing with very raw emotions at this time and other peoples sensitivites need to be taken into account.
His ride at Phillip Island the week before his death was measured and the best of his short career in the premiere class IMHO.....but he had also crashed 3 times at the same corner in FP/QP that same weekend suggesting he still had failed to learn any lessons from his many indiscretions.
I dont think anyone is suggesting he actually died due to his lack of smarts on this particular occasion....it was a freak accident the likes of which I have never seen before - but he was certainly a serial crasher and it was not his rookie year....this was yet another crash due to his own actions.
I think if we are honest with ourselves we would admit that if questioned or polled on who was the most likely to end their career with a serious accident he probably would be at the top of most peoples lists....its just that no one actually expects these sorts of incidents to come along....when they do it leaves everyone in a state of shock.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Sounds arrogant. Tell me again, why did Roberts win the championship that year? (the last one recorded for Suzuki)
What your saying here is a far cry from MA claiming Simo was not inteligent enough to be a world champion !
Because he finished more races than rossi ! jeez
What the .... is your problem. In my opinion which I have clearly given reasons for its formulation I believe that Sic was not intelligent enough to win a WC against the likes of Stoner and Lorenzo. If you are so confident that I am wrong please lay out your reasons why you think he has EVERYTHING it takes to win a MotoGP WC against the current competition.
I hope your answer will include how you think based on the history of his race strategy he would have won the 8-10 races and finished another 8-10 times on the podium, which is what it takes to win a WC in MotoGP.
I hope you are not going to reflect on his minor class championships which will then just make me list a whole bunch of minor class champions who never did .... in MotoGP. Maybe you will say that others have crashed a lot and gone on to win. Well those riders spanked him in those lower class championships and both of them had pretty decent 2nd years with Stoner winning the championship and Lorenzo finishing second in his second year.
Come on Chop, stop trying to recruit people to your cause and lay your considered view out on the keyboard.
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Because he finished more races than rossi ! jeezIm not taking anything away from jnr and even if rossi who crashed twice more than edwards and won he would have only won the wc by 1 pt, but that was his Rookie year. Then bear in mind the following year when rossi only crashed once and found his limits jnr finished 11th where as Rossi won. What so arrogant ?
You don't think it was just a case of honda pulling out all stops to win the last year of a formula
