Lorenzo to Ducati!

The story on crash is that they give Stoner 3.8 million euros & are offering Lorenzo 6 - 8 million. That's a hell of a slap in the face for a sick man, shows a bit of a lack of faith. Reinforces what some have been saying about the Ducati attitude. Then again maybe it ain't true.

this might sound stupid, but i'de love to see spies on ducati in motogp. spies and hayden. all american on an all italian i feel that spies is talented enough that he can get the most of any bike he's on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J708 @ Aug 18 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this might sound stupid, but i'de love to see spies on ducati in motogp. spies and hayden. all american on an all italian i feel that spies is talented enough that he can get the most of any bike he's on.
Who knows who will be fast on the Ducati, to quote the often quoted and now cliche "only one man has proved he can ride the Ducati GP". I would think Spies is in the same mind frame as Bautista, that is they are not willing to take a risk on such a venture. Spies has shown he can adapt quickly to new circuits, bike, team, environment, etc. We hopefully will find out if he can do the same on a GP bike and parlay the doubters. Anyone attempting to crack the top 4-5 in GP right now is up for a massive challenge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Aug 18 2009, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If (a very big IF in my opinion) Lorenzo leaves Yamaha and this opens a seat at Fiat Yama, I would predict they would put Edwards in the spot as a place holder so Spies or whomever else they sign with Tech3 can have a spot come 2011. I doubt they would take a chance with Hayden.

Hayden's in a tough spot right now. Ducati are not offering him a seat yet until Lorenzo decides. If Lorenzo says yes (which I still highly doubt) AND Stoner comes back then Hayden will be out looking for a job. Perhaps this is also why Tech 3 are holding onto their last spot, to pick up the "best of the rest"? I have a feeling that Tech 3 seat will be undecided for a long time. Toesland needs to get out now and pick up the best ride he can back in WSBK, Ten Kate is calling, pick up the phone and say yes.

Tell me Booty my friend - why would they take Edwards over Hayden? It doesn't much look like
Spies is coming to Tech 3 this year. Why not let Edwards warm the bench there till Spies is ready
to come? Much as I'd like to see Spies come now - I have a feeling it's not meant to be - for 2010.

Lorenzo is acting like a spoiled child trying to force Yamaha's hand. If he's willing to "cut off his nose to spite his face." I'm sure Yamaha will show him the door. This year's championship is sewn up - and very few people are in a big hurry to bet against Rossi winning one more championship in 2010. Lorenzo needs Yamaha more than the other way around. That much is clear. If he's stupid enough to go to Ducati - I will laugh my ... off.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 19 2009, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tell me Booty my friend - why would they take Edwards over Hayden? It doesn't much look like
Spies is coming to Tech 3 this year. Why not let Edwards warm the bench there till Spies is ready
to come? Much as I'd like to see Spies come now - I have a feeling it's not meant to be - for 2010.

Lorenzo is acting like a spoiled child trying to force Yamaha's hand. If he's willing to "cut off his nose to spite his face." I'm sure Yamaha will show him the door. This year's championship is sewn up - and very few people are in a big hurry to bet against Rossi winning one more championship in 2010. Lorenzo needs Yamaha more than the other way around. That much is clear. If he's stupid enough to go to Ducati - I will laugh my ... off.

Spot on.....that machine is almost ruining more amazing careers than the kwaka! Mind you much glory to be had for the rider who comes in and makes it work like CS, big gamble though.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 18 2009, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tell me Booty my friend - why would they take Edwards over Hayden? It doesn't much look like
Spies is coming to Tech 3 this year. Why not let Edwards warm the bench there till Spies is ready
to come? Much as I'd like to see Spies come now - I have a feeling it's not meant to be - for 2010.
My assertion of Edwards taking an empty Fiat and play seat warmer, which incidentally I think is very unlikely as I believe Jorge will sign, hinges upon Spies coming in 2010 to Tech 3 and serving his 1 year rookie time then if performance is good, make the move to Fiat. Granted, as you say, it may be unlikely that Spies comes in 2010, as we haven't heard much talk, but the simple fact that Tech 3 is still up in the air says a lot. Also Spies has made it clear GP is his goal, but again this season in WSBK may change his mind, who knows? What we do all know is, once Jorge decides, the cards will start falling in place. Picking Edwards as a seat warmer might be wise as it gets more and more likely he will retire. If they picked Hayden it would be a more long term commitment, thus leaving Spies out. Gotta love the silly season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Aug 18 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My assertion of Edwards taking an empty Fiat and play seat warmer, which incidentally I think is very unlikely as I believe Jorge will sign, hinges upon Spies coming in 2010 to Tech 3 and serving his 1 year rookie time then if performance is good, make the move to Fiat. Granted, as you say, it may be unlikely that Spies comes in 2010, as we haven't heard much talk, but the simple fact that Tech 3 is still up in the air says a lot. Also Spies has made it clear GP is his goal, but again this season in WSBK may change his mind, who knows? What we do all know is, once Jorge decides, the cards will start falling in place. Picking Edwards as a seat warmer might be wise as it gets more and more likely he will retire. If they picked Hayden it would be a more long term commitment, thus leaving Spies out. Gotta love the silly season.

The likelihood of Edwards retiring isn't something I've heard anyone suggest.
Anyhoo . . . I expect Lorenzo has overplayed his hand and will be with Yamaha
for another year.

Oohh, while we are playing hypotheticals I figure why not throw some conspiracy theory, mixed with pure ... guesswork into the mix. So first, the conspiracy.

It has long been said that VR vetoed Yamaha offering Stoner the #2 seat back in the 990cc days (numerous stories suggested that Nurgess wanted CS but vetoed by VR). Yes Yamaha have said that CS wanted to much money but was was subsequently shown with CS remuneration this looks unlikely so the rumour/story may well be true. So why do we believe that Yamaha genuinely want to keep Jorge?

Could the fact that VR is being challenged by a rider on the same machine be playing a part in Yamaha not making Jorge as 'welcome' offers as they would a rider who is not going to challenge VR for the title (ie. CEii)?

On other words, could VR himself be pulling a power play?

Lets be honest, according to many he is that powerful given what he 'brings' to the sport in terms of dollars, support etc and has been shown to get his way (ie. Bridgestone). So, could we be assuming that JL wants to leave when in fact he may well find himself being 'managed out'?

Now, many will say that wheer does this leave Yamaha as JL is the likely heir apparent but if VR has committed to longer term (ie. ends career 2011/2012) then there is plenty of time for Yamaha to groom a number 2 and subsequent heir apparent, or simply buy one at a later point.

The obvious expectation is that Yamaha already have Spies who could do far worse than learn in a satellite team (ie. tech3) for one year, then graduate to the factory team for further year or so all the time under the tutelage of someone like VR. If Yamah find Spies does not work or does not fit their desired plan they could always buy one of the current 250cc riders who by then woudl have proved themselves and gone some way towards building their own brand and reputation.

Total hypothetical abd fully made up, but then so seems a lot of stuff now.



As for the Hayden talk, I reckon that if JL goes to Ducati Hayden has to leave if he has the option simply because JL is a massive ego and Hayden will not get the level of treatment or dedication that he appears to receive with CS as the team-mate. Personally I cannot see JL accepting anything less than outright #1 within the team and as such cannot see him working with Stoner (which given the Marlboro talk would mean the factory team).

Additionally as mentioned earlier, the fact that Ducati seem to be offering twice (or thereabouts) Stoner's salary is a slap in the face somewhat for Stoner and one would not expect him to be happy with that or with a #2 or less place in the team. Methinks that if JL goes to Ducati it will make for one unhappy garage.




Conspiracy off.







Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 19 2009, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oohh, while we are playing hypotheticals I figure why not throw some conspiracy theory, mixed with pure ... guesswork into the mix. So first, the conspiracy.

It has long been said that VR vetoed Yamaha offering Stoner the #2 seat back in the 990cc days (numerous stories suggested that Nurgess wanted CS but vetoed by VR). Yes Yamaha have said that CS wanted to much money but was was subsequently shown with CS remuneration this looks unlikely so the rumour/story may well be true. So why do we believe that Yamaha genuinely want to keep Jorge?

Could the fact that VR is being challenged by a rider on the same machine be playing a part in Yamaha not making Jorge as 'welcome' offers as they would a rider who is not going to challenge VR for the title (ie. CEii)?

On other words, could VR himself be pulling a power play?

Lets be honest, according to many he is that powerful given what he 'brings' to the sport in terms of dollars, support etc and has been shown to get his way (ie. Bridgestone). So, could we be assuming that JL wants to leave when in fact he may well find himself being 'managed out'?

Now, many will say that wheer does this leave Yamaha as JL is the likely heir apparent but if VR has committed to longer term (ie. ends career 2011/2012) then there is plenty of time for Yamaha to groom a number 2 and subsequent heir apparent, or simply buy one at a later point.

The obvious expectation is that Yamaha already have Spies who could do far worse than learn in a satellite team (ie. tech3) for one year, then graduate to the factory team for further year or so all the time under the tutelage of someone like VR. If Yamah find Spies does not work or does not fit their desired plan they could always buy one of the current 250cc riders who by then woudl have proved themselves and gone some way towards building their own brand and reputation.

Total hypothetical abd fully made up, but then so seems a lot of stuff now.



As for the Hayden talk, I reckon that if JL goes to Ducati Hayden has to leave if he has the option simply because JL is a massive ego and Hayden will not get the level of treatment or dedication that he appears to receive with CS as the team-mate. Personally I cannot see JL accepting anything less than outright #1 within the team and as such cannot see him working with Stoner (which given the Marlboro talk would mean the factory team).

Additionally as mentioned earlier, the fact that Ducati seem to be offering twice (or thereabouts) Stoner's salary is a slap in the face somewhat for Stoner and one would not expect him to be happy with that or with a #2 or less place in the team. Methinks that if JL goes to Ducati it will make for one unhappy garage.




Conspiracy off.







Gaz


Not too sure about the Bridgestone powerplay being as mighty as it seemed, it was off-season, Pedrobot changed midway through! No doubt that VR must exercise serious influence over Yamaha's decisions, as he should-JB/VR pulled them out of the swamp in 04!

Unfortunately in this world money talks and those Salaries are usually a trade-off situation. JL brings a massive chunk of the Spanish Fanbase and their peso's, CS can't compete in that particular arena, if anything his popularity is gaining momentum downwards even more, which is a shame for he is a Talent-but as I've said he has brought a lot of this on himself, we all know a certain amount of acting-PR wise is more than required in professional sport today-especially in Europe! Look at Soccer!!! Sorry Football.......anyone for a dive

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 19 2009, 05:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oohh, while we are playing hypotheticals I figure why not throw some conspiracy theory, mixed with pure ... guesswork into the mix. So first, the conspiracy.

It has long been said that VR vetoed Yamaha offering Stoner the #2 seat back in the 990cc days (numerous stories suggested that Nurgess wanted CS but vetoed by VR). Yes Yamaha have said that CS wanted to much money but was was subsequently shown with CS remuneration this looks unlikely so the rumour/story may well be true. So why do we believe that Yamaha genuinely want to keep Jorge?

I am not able to locate the article in motogp.com, but didn't Furusawa himself revealed that it i snot true that CS path to Yamaha was obstructed by Vale but rather than some contractual things.

But I wud luv to see Vale and CS dominate in a Yamaha so that JL's ego makes him keep his foot in earth.

Edit: Here is the link

People say Lorenzo is using Honda and Ducati to leverage the negotiation with Yam, but what if it was the other way around. He is using Yam to draw more money from other manufactures by repeatedly saying Yam is his first choice. What he gets...13M.

He is offered 13M for 2 years.

"Poker-faced Yamaha Racing Boss Lin Jarvis then announced Jorge would have to “take it or leave it” and was that he was free to leave for Honda if he wanted. Lorenzo, knowing how good the bike and team are, has now decided to stay."

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/555/4359/Mot...no-Insider.aspx

is it just me or did they just write this statement with no facts behind it. Unless they just mean "stay for now"

On recent evidence he is not challenging valentino all that hard. If valentino is showing indications of staying for multiple more years jorge might as well take the money, as I don't think he will beat valentino for the world championship on a factory yamaha any time soon.

In the post Brno test interview at motogp, Lorenzo said Yamaha brought many things to test, and he was bit surprised because he did not expect to test that many... there is a little different, but in the future, it will improve and we can be more cometitive. He also said he tested verious clutchs to improve his start as it is the area he has to improve most.

He sounded like he stays with Yam at least from this interview, taling about the future. And also, he does not seem to be treated by Yam unimportantly. If he is, they could just say the start is his own problem as Rossi is doing fine, and did not bring different clutchs to try?!

I do not know... money matters a lots and he can be after it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 19 2009, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Unfortunately in this world money talks and those Salaries are usually a trade-off situation. JL brings a massive chunk of the Spanish Fanbase and their peso's, CS can't compete in that particular arena
Whether due to his personality and behaviour as you say, his nationality, the attitude of the press , the amount of love out there for valentino and consequent disapproval by some of one who competed so strongly against him for one year at least or whatever, I agree with this statement. I think casey probably brings in little or no sponsorship on his own, and I am not aware of major australian companies (if there are any ) lining up to sponsor casey or other australian riders as the continental firms do, the spanish in particular, for their riders.

Stoner is not unfamiliar with being paid less than a co-rider in any case, with marco melandri rumoured to have been signed for more money for 2008 than casey even as he was on the cusp of winning the world championship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Aug 19 2009, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whether due to his personality and behaviour as you say, his nationality, the attitude of the press , the amount of love out there for valentino and consequent disapproval by some of one who competed so strongly against him for one year at least or whatever, I agree with this statement. I think casey probably brings in little or no sponsorship on his own, and I am not aware of major australian companies (if there are any ) lining up to sponsor casey or other australian riders as the continental firms do, the spanish in particular, for their riders.

Stoner is not unfamiliar with being paid less than a co-rider in any case, with marco melandri rumoured to have been signed for more money for 2008 than casey even as he was on the cusp of winning the world championship.

Stoner reportedly earned Aus$ 4.20m (approx. Euro 2.436m) in 2008, of which about Aus$ 500,000 came from win bonuses and private sponsorship / merchandising.
That leaves a salary from Ducati of about Aus#$ 3.70m (approx. Euro 2.146m).
Less than almost every other factory rider. This is the only guy able to ride the Ducati and the only iother rider who has consistently been able to challenge Rossi.
In his first yeat, Stoner was paid Euro 1.00m and Euro 250,000 per win, and after his first year Ducati renegotiated because the win bionus' were costing them too much.
There is no way they have offered Lorenzo GBP 13.0 over two years when Lorenzo has not riden the bike, and is completely unproven.
Ducati have surely learnt their lesson from MM.
Ducati will not pay Lorenzo that much, and put him in the team as No. 1 until he has proven to be faster than CS.

See through all the crap.
Lorenzo will stay at Yam, but is courting these bogus offers to raise his bargaining power at Yamaha. I would love to see Ducati or Honda come out and say publically these claims are crap and they have never offered this much to Lorenzo.

Ciontract negotiations over salary should not be discussed publically by riders or their managers under any circumstances, and this whole shitfight has dropped JL a peg or two in my assessment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Aug 19 2009, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am not able to locate the article in motogp.com, but didn't Furusawa himself revealed that it i snot true that CS path to Yamaha was obstructed by Vale but rather than some contractual things.

But I wud luv to see Vale and CS dominate in a Yamaha so that JL's ego makes him keep his foot in earth.

Edit: Here is the link
If the interview is legit, I find this part interesting. And confirms what I was talking about earlier with Edwards coming back to Fiat should Lorenzo leave.

Furusawa also added that there is no deadline to sign on riders for the 2010 season:

“We have all the time we want, it’s the riders who are in a hurry. At the moment there are a lot of them knocking on our door. Regarding the second team, Tech 3, we would like young and inexpensive riders, but if we have to do without Lorenzo, we’ll simply move Colin back next to Rossi, that way we’ll make room for Ben Spies who wants to come to MotoGP, but we don’t want to spend more. If our M1 was a bad bike then we’d have to.”

DAVID MILLER

Various reports flying round the interweb at the moment are speculating that Ducati's sponsors Philip Morris, owners of Marlboro, have tabled a deal with Jorge Lorenzo to the tune of $13m.

Yes, $13m. Sorry but this is getting out of hand. I was stunned to read a few months ago that footballist Cristiano Wossname had moved from one red team to another for £80m and that he would be paid, in three years' time, the best part of half a million quid a week.

Motorcycle News' Matthew Birt has broken the story. Now Matt is the best reporter in that paddock and a friend but I really hope he has got it wrong. Not from a rival's point of view, but from a this-is-bad-for-the-sport view.

No-one is worth this sort of money.

Yes, Lorenzo may be the second best motorcycle racer in the world, and yes he may put his life on the line every time he sits on a bike. But he also does that when he gets in his car, gets on a plane, walks up the road, sleeps with someone he shouldn't. He might choke on a pip from a lime in the top of a bottle of Corona Extra.

MotoGP is trying to cut costs in order to have a decent grid. If Marlboro start flinging this kind of money around, it can only spell the end. So, Lorenzo is worth, allegedly, $13m dollars and he hasn't yet won a MotoGP World Championship.

What does that, then, make The Doctor worth? Lorenzo has proved he caves in to pressure from Rossi and just can't live with the man. If the Lorenzo deal sets a precedent, and a very dangerous one, Rossi could command double that at the end of next season when his Yamaha contract runs out. And someone will pay it because he is Valentino Rossi.

Rossi is reportedly on a $4M package from Yamaha, plus his own sponsorship. Lorenzo is currently being paid half that, it is said, by those who can operate a calculator. Whatever it is, a massive hike in wage bills when costs are trying to be cut is bad.

some points i pointed out so who's worth what then.? lol & is rossi on $4m dollars a yr.?

more bullchet to the mix.mirror co uk

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Aug 19 2009, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is reportedly on a $4M package from YamahaBefore or after tax?