Laguna Seca - Race discussion
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wow, what a great race. was on the edge my seat the whole time,well till casey crashed. But still it was very exciting. I've never seen Rossi this aggresive for quite a while. Very suprised that he won, based on free practice and qualifying i thought stoner had this one in the bag.
very suprised also by stoners behaviour when rossi wanted to shake hands, but hey this is racing and when you loose you have the right to be angry. I think Stoner needs some PR advice before he becomes the most hated guy on the grid,unless he is going for that. Also if Sete comes to ducati he might give him and an advice or two about battling rossi and the whole racing game.
very suprised also by stoners behaviour when rossi wanted to shake hands, but hey this is racing and when you loose you have the right to be angry. I think Stoner needs some PR advice before he becomes the most hated guy on the grid,unless he is going for that. Also if Sete comes to ducati he might give him and an advice or two about battling rossi and the whole racing game.
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I wonder how Stoner would be doing if he wasn't on the Duc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Jul 22 2008, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder how Stoner would be doing if he wasn't on the Duc.
Oooh boy! Not that again!
Really....like dogs with bones.
Oooh boy! Not that again!
Really....like dogs with bones.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Jul 22 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder how Stoner would be doing if he wasn't on the Duc.
This is so old now. It's like saying Vale would have won in 2006 and 2007 if he stayed on Honda, or that Marco would win if he went to Ducati (as was once confidently predicted).
That Casey would have or wouldn’t have won on the Yamaha/Honda is completely irrelevant and for all intents and purposes, given the success of other good riders on the Ducati there is a significant body of evidence to say that he would have won. There is a body of opinion that says we wouldn’t have AND we will never know because it didn’t happen. Nobody can be right or wrong. Would the Soviet Union have collapsed if they beat the USA to the moon? Would the Vietnam War have gotten going if the shooter missed JFK? Who knows, why even ask it?
You cannot qualify or even assume fact with blatant prognostication and apply causation to hypothetical events. I often ask my kids “how many pizzas can you fit in a dog house if a sunny boy turns corners? The answer is “7” and the reason is “because ice creams don’t grow bones in winter”. The kids love it and understand that hypothetical and nonsensical causal links really mean nothing. Hypothetical answers based on events that are impossible for having not occurred are an exercise in pointless abstraction.
The logic is but for the Ducati..."this" would have happened - but we are examining one of an infinite number of untested variables to which there is no answer and never can be and an intelligent person can NEVER EVER hang their hat on an unchallengeable theory. This is a variable that shall remain untested for all time as there is no way Vale and Casey are going to race each other on their 2008 bikes (but swapped).
I am reminded of the 80’s teen movie revenge of the nerds II (as opposed to “if” by Rudyard Kipling – a different audience required…). They’re all lying around after smoking a joint and Ogre (the boofhead recently turned nerd) listening to the real nerds pondering great questions of science and creation says “What if C-A-T spelt DOG?”. The nerds ponder this as the deepest thing they’ve ever heard. And it was.
What if Valentino was riding a Kawasaki?
Looking at the results of three other Ducati riders (particularly Marco who was second in the championship on a satellite bike) I put this to you.
What if Valentino was riding a Ducati? Would he really have done so well, maybe, maybe not? Who ....... knows!
What if Casey was on a factory Yamaha with Bridgestone’s? Casey has been on 1 and 1 only factory bike in his life and won a championship on it. Everybody else is .... on that bike so it is not the “needs no rider” user-friendly machine often purported to be by the great unwashed who sometime inhabit this and other forums. That is a fact that you cannot devalue with your C-A-T spelt dog logic.
We can come up with a million pointless hypothetical situations to examine and the sum total of the contribution of these is zero and always will be zero and that is that. Why - because Ice creams don’t grow bones in winter and they would have if Casey were on the Yamaha or Honda.
Do we need this rubbish?
This is so old now. It's like saying Vale would have won in 2006 and 2007 if he stayed on Honda, or that Marco would win if he went to Ducati (as was once confidently predicted).
That Casey would have or wouldn’t have won on the Yamaha/Honda is completely irrelevant and for all intents and purposes, given the success of other good riders on the Ducati there is a significant body of evidence to say that he would have won. There is a body of opinion that says we wouldn’t have AND we will never know because it didn’t happen. Nobody can be right or wrong. Would the Soviet Union have collapsed if they beat the USA to the moon? Would the Vietnam War have gotten going if the shooter missed JFK? Who knows, why even ask it?
You cannot qualify or even assume fact with blatant prognostication and apply causation to hypothetical events. I often ask my kids “how many pizzas can you fit in a dog house if a sunny boy turns corners? The answer is “7” and the reason is “because ice creams don’t grow bones in winter”. The kids love it and understand that hypothetical and nonsensical causal links really mean nothing. Hypothetical answers based on events that are impossible for having not occurred are an exercise in pointless abstraction.
The logic is but for the Ducati..."this" would have happened - but we are examining one of an infinite number of untested variables to which there is no answer and never can be and an intelligent person can NEVER EVER hang their hat on an unchallengeable theory. This is a variable that shall remain untested for all time as there is no way Vale and Casey are going to race each other on their 2008 bikes (but swapped).
I am reminded of the 80’s teen movie revenge of the nerds II (as opposed to “if” by Rudyard Kipling – a different audience required…). They’re all lying around after smoking a joint and Ogre (the boofhead recently turned nerd) listening to the real nerds pondering great questions of science and creation says “What if C-A-T spelt DOG?”. The nerds ponder this as the deepest thing they’ve ever heard. And it was.
What if Valentino was riding a Kawasaki?
Looking at the results of three other Ducati riders (particularly Marco who was second in the championship on a satellite bike) I put this to you.
What if Valentino was riding a Ducati? Would he really have done so well, maybe, maybe not? Who ....... knows!
What if Casey was on a factory Yamaha with Bridgestone’s? Casey has been on 1 and 1 only factory bike in his life and won a championship on it. Everybody else is .... on that bike so it is not the “needs no rider” user-friendly machine often purported to be by the great unwashed who sometime inhabit this and other forums. That is a fact that you cannot devalue with your C-A-T spelt dog logic.
We can come up with a million pointless hypothetical situations to examine and the sum total of the contribution of these is zero and always will be zero and that is that. Why - because Ice creams don’t grow bones in winter and they would have if Casey were on the Yamaha or Honda.
Do we need this rubbish?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is so old now.............
..............Do we need this rubbish?
As much as i totally agree with your post I do think the odd hypothetical scenario and a bit of wild speculation can be fun. The trouble is that too many people believe in their own speculations rather than accepting them for what they are.
..............Do we need this rubbish?
As much as i totally agree with your post I do think the odd hypothetical scenario and a bit of wild speculation can be fun. The trouble is that too many people believe in their own speculations rather than accepting them for what they are.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Jul 22 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder how Stoner would be doing if he wasn't on the Duc.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The trouble is that too many people believe in their own speculations rather than accepting them for what they are.
That's exactly what I was trying to say in 500 words or more.
Concise candid and perfectly parsimonious. (A little alliteration)
I think I'm funny - I have to stop drinking red wine on Tuesday nights...
That's exactly what I was trying to say in 500 words or more.
Concise candid and perfectly parsimonious. (A little alliteration)
I think I'm funny - I have to stop drinking red wine on Tuesday nights...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do we need this rubbish?
We don't. And you seem to acknowledge it. Which makes the fact you wasted all that time writing a dissertation about it even more mind boggling.
And some of us do happen to be familiar with Kipling by the way.
We don't. And you seem to acknowledge it. Which makes the fact you wasted all that time writing a dissertation about it even more mind boggling.
And some of us do happen to be familiar with Kipling by the way.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 22 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We don't. And you seem to acknowledge it. Which makes the fact you wasted all that time writing a dissertation about it even more mind boggling.
And some of us do happen to be familiar with Kipling by the way.
It's the cab sav - mind boggling.
I tend to write dissertations, I do that for a living more or less.
I just love muddaboikes.
And some of us do happen to be familiar with Kipling by the way.
It's the cab sav - mind boggling.
I tend to write dissertations, I do that for a living more or less.
I just love muddaboikes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I tend to write dissertations, I do that for a living more or less.
OK but you're not getting paid for this one...
OK but you're not getting paid for this one...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 22 2008, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OK but you're not getting paid for this one...
Tomorrow after the red I'll pay, oh yes, I'll pay...
Tomorrow after the red I'll pay, oh yes, I'll pay...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tomorrow after the red I'll pay, oh yes, I'll pay...
You mean, you don't drink red wine every night?
Where is this store that you pay the next day?
I always have to pay up front.
You mean, you don't drink red wine every night?
Where is this store that you pay the next day?
I always have to pay up front.
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I was thinking out loud, considering his achievements and off circuit excursions in his first year on supposedly the best bike in the paddock (at the time). It's amazing how all this is completely turned around in one off season with a new manufacturer. Who thought it would have been Stoner to take the first 800cc crown.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 22 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We don't. And you seem to acknowledge it. Which makes the fact you wasted all that time writing a dissertation about it even more mind boggling.
And some of us do happen to be familiar with Kipling by the way.
Kipling cherry bakewells,they`re lovely
And some of us do happen to be familiar with Kipling by the way.
Kipling cherry bakewells,they`re lovely
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRILL @ Jul 22 2008, 06:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kipling cherry bakewells,they`re lovely
i like ham
i like ham
Back on Stoner vs Rossi aftermath ,Burgess said "It was probably something that he (Stoner) wasn't particularly expecting; [he] probably expected to win the race easily like he'd dominated in the practices."
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...overtaking.html
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...overtaking.html
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Jul 22 2008, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Back on Stoner vs Rossi aftermath ,Burgess said "It was probably something that he (Stoner) wasn't particularly expecting; [he] probably expected to win the race easily like he'd dominated in the practices."
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...overtaking.html
3999:Owned_BadHair.jpg]
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...overtaking.html
3999:Owned_BadHair.jpg]
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thats the best race i have seen in ages, shame stoner couldn't stay with it to the last lap, i think rossi still would have had him tho or they would have taken each other out, but Rossi was so determined to win that one.
i can see what stoner is complaining about though, who does Rossi think he trying to win, surely over taking is not allowed? What is it formula one?
For god sake stoner that is racing, with the exception of when Rossi went over the dirt it was all clean non contact passing, bar the one where stoner made contact with Rossi trying to get passed him.
I think Bugess said it best and Brivio, Rossi raced with his heart on his sleeve.
I can understand Stoner complaining, I think every rider would have, no one like being out ridden and coming 2nd, I think when he made those comments he was still in adrenaline mode from the race. It was ridiculous how much faster than everyone else they are, I have great respect for stoner as a rider, but as a personality he is a wet miserable fart!
I think Rossi will try this tactic again, although I expect the Yamaha to come back much quicker when they put the new electronics on it like Ducati did (then suddenly stoner was 1 second quicker every where) damn electronics should be banned, I want to see more wheel to wheel racing and sliding, although stoner does make that duke squirm you can see the electronics kick in, where as rossi is much smoother and controlled even when on the edge.
Its time to put Sete n the other red bike, Melandri better go back to Honda and grovel, I wouldn’t expect Hayden to be any good on the Duke either, although it is more power he wanted, Nicky is an amazing rider but only on the 900’s, 800’s really aren’t for him, he doesn’t seem to be able to adapt.
The only rider I would kick out of moto gp is West-he is ..... sorry but he is!
Lorenzo should maybe go to stunt school or take up gymnastics and learn how to land smoothly.
What kind of shape will the pedrobot be in when he comes back, he could make the difference to the championship by taking points off the 2 big guns.
I think Rossi will be pushing Yamaha harder than ever for improvements now and expect him to win a couple more races. But stoner will be hard to beat
Just to piss all the stoner fans off
Rossi = G.O.A.T
i can see what stoner is complaining about though, who does Rossi think he trying to win, surely over taking is not allowed? What is it formula one?
For god sake stoner that is racing, with the exception of when Rossi went over the dirt it was all clean non contact passing, bar the one where stoner made contact with Rossi trying to get passed him.
I think Bugess said it best and Brivio, Rossi raced with his heart on his sleeve.
I can understand Stoner complaining, I think every rider would have, no one like being out ridden and coming 2nd, I think when he made those comments he was still in adrenaline mode from the race. It was ridiculous how much faster than everyone else they are, I have great respect for stoner as a rider, but as a personality he is a wet miserable fart!
I think Rossi will try this tactic again, although I expect the Yamaha to come back much quicker when they put the new electronics on it like Ducati did (then suddenly stoner was 1 second quicker every where) damn electronics should be banned, I want to see more wheel to wheel racing and sliding, although stoner does make that duke squirm you can see the electronics kick in, where as rossi is much smoother and controlled even when on the edge.
Its time to put Sete n the other red bike, Melandri better go back to Honda and grovel, I wouldn’t expect Hayden to be any good on the Duke either, although it is more power he wanted, Nicky is an amazing rider but only on the 900’s, 800’s really aren’t for him, he doesn’t seem to be able to adapt.
The only rider I would kick out of moto gp is West-he is ..... sorry but he is!
Lorenzo should maybe go to stunt school or take up gymnastics and learn how to land smoothly.
What kind of shape will the pedrobot be in when he comes back, he could make the difference to the championship by taking points off the 2 big guns.
I think Rossi will be pushing Yamaha harder than ever for improvements now and expect him to win a couple more races. But stoner will be hard to beat
Just to piss all the stoner fans off
Rossi = G.O.A.T
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