Jerez Tests - 27th 29th November

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haga @ Nov 29 2007, 10:45 PM) [snapback]102749[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Pedro 1st, Nicky 2nd, Jorge 3rd.

Just the top 3 I wanted.


Enjoy them now, they will nost last long as top 3 together, I'm afraid

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Nov 29 2007, 05:53 PM) [snapback]102767[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Enjoy them now, they will nost last long as top 3 together, I'm afraid


What makes you so sure?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 29 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]102707[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
And Still the slowest rookie

nice to see Lorenzo getting his act together


So who cares if James Toseland was the slowest rookie. At least he is trying his best and don't forget that he is still getting used to things but I think he has done really well especially yesterday that he got himself 8th place.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Fizz @ Nov 30 2007, 12:05 AM) [snapback]102770[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So who cares if James Toseland was the slowest rookie. At least he is trying his best and don't forget that he is still getting used to things but I think he has done really well especially yesterday that he got himself 8th place.

i agree, i think he is doing a great job all things considered .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eagle088 @ Nov 30 2007, 12:59 AM) [snapback]102769[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What makes you so sure?


The fact that Stoner and Rossi are not in your top-3

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 29 2007, 09:54 PM) [snapback]102753[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It turns out Dani was on the 07 bike afterall, that seems to me like something he could have got out of the way in sepang.........



That is not a good situation for HRC to be in since it seems they have no clear direction to follow...Nicky's or Dani's....

If they go with Nicky then only the Repsols riders will make a real impact next year.

If they go with Dani then HRC was the abilty to evolve all the other Honda teams bikes over the season...


Nicky quote from Crash...
"The one slightly frustrating thing was that I rode the new machine for the entire test except for the last hour today [when he switched back to the '07] and I immediately went faster by about four tenths faster on race tyres, which means we've got a bit of talking to do…"

HRC has no clear direction on development then....not good news in my view.

I'm impressed with Rossi on the old bike, new tyres and battered right hand and I think Toseland is doing a great job being completely new to the MotoGP paddock as well as everything else that goes with it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Nov 29 2007, 11:53 PM) [snapback]102767[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Enjoy them now, they will nost last long as top 3 together, I'm afraid


If Michelin bring a better tyre next year you can get used to that top three.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Fizz @ Nov 30 2007, 12:05 AM) [snapback]102770[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So who cares if James Toseland was the slowest rookie. At least he is trying his best and don't forget that he is still getting used to things but I think he has done really well especially yesterday that he got himself 8th place.


Sorry this post was just to have a dig at phleg as a continuation of some banter we have been having. I am impressed with JT and delighted that things are going so positively from the start.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Nov 30 2007, 06:14 AM) [snapback]102782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The fact that Stoner and Rossi are not in your top-3


Stoner you have a point with but not Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Nov 30 2007, 01:17 AM) [snapback]102783[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
HRC has no clear direction on development then....not good news in my view.


|R|E|A|D|B|E|T|W|E|E|N|T|H|E|L|I|N|E|S|

The Honda satellite teams have been offed. No more near factory support (or at least allegedly near factory support) for Honda satellite teams (like Movistar or Gresini). They get one bike spec for the entire season. No more mass swarming of Valentino Rossi. It's about making the machine work properly and work properly for the rider so they can catch Ducati. I think 2007 may have changed the way HRC do things..........temporarily at least.

The 2007 RC212V is being developed and improved for Pedrosa. Nicky is building a new bike for himself from scratch. Isn't it obvious from the smiles in the paddock. Pedro is actually getting to help tweak the bike they built him, Nicky is psyched at the opportunity to build a bike the way Rossi got to at Yam.

Two very different riders, one coherent strategy to hedge bets by developing two different philosophies about how to ride a bike during a time of uncertainty and rampant rules change. It's organized chaos.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Nov 30 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]102911[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
|R|E|A|D|B|E|T|W|E|E|N|T|H|E|L|I|N|E|S|

It's about making the machine work properly and work properly for the rider so they can catch Ducati. I think 2007 may have changed the way HRC do things..........temporarily at least.

Two very different riders, one coherent strategy to hedge bets by developing two different philosophies about how to ride a bike during a time of uncertainty and rampant rules change. It's organized chaos.

Money doesn't seem to be a big consideration for next year as far as hrc are concerned. I posted previously that it was probably in some ways good that stoner could not test enough to show any dominance if he was capable of it, as this would have led hrc to throw even more money at the bike(s) in the off-season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haga @ Nov 30 2007, 06:03 PM) [snapback]102893[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Stoner you have a point with but not Rossi.


If Stoner is favoured over Hayden and Lorenzo any day of the year, so is Rossi. You are left with only 1 real contender out of 3 - Pedrobot

Did anyone ever consider the reason Rossi quit testing this week was that the Yamaha with Stones didnt have 1.38's in it.He was right there near the top till it got serious, then he packs up and goes home.Or that could mean,ive got these fuckers covered and aint going to let them know till its to late.Or maybe his hand WAS hurting.We have all frickin winter to come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories.Im allready bored out of my mind.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Nov 30 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]102911[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The 2007 RC212V is being developed and improved for Pedrosa. Nicky is building a new bike for himself from scratch. Isn't it obvious from the smiles in the paddock. Pedro is actually getting to help tweak the bike they built him, Nicky is psyched at the opportunity to build a bike the way Rossi got to at Yam.

Two very different riders, one coherent strategy to hedge bets by developing two different philosophies about how to ride a bike during a time of uncertainty and rampant rules change. It's organized chaos.

I see you point, but don't think it is the case. HRC is HRC is HRC. In a nutshell, HRC makes everyman's and anyman's bike, and not an individual's bike. Making a bike for Nicky and a different bike for Dani makes no strategic sense and would be a knee jerk panic HRC reaction, and HRC (Honda) does not panic.

HRC does not put 6 bikes on the grid to see 4 of them regularly finish outside the top 8. HRC does not like just having 2 wins a year, and 1 or 2 riders inside the top 5. HRC always wants and expects to have all 5 of in the top 5 spots.

So in my view and reading between the lines, Dani will continues to develop the 2007 bike into a better and better 2008 machine, the evolutionary path is more straight forward and can be rolled out to customer bikes more easily and quickly over time and help Honda's assualt on all the titles.

Dani has already make more and more improvements on the old bike. That is evident by Nicky jumping on the 'old' bike in Jerez and right away going faster by .4 of second than he had before on it, and than his 2008 special.

Let's say your right, and HRC are now making 'specials' for Nicky and Dani.
What do you think will happen if Nicky or Dani struggle to deliver in 2008?
Where do you think HRC will put most of their energy?
Keep in mind, if Dani struggles then the whole of the Honda assault on the titles will suffer, and if Nicky struggles only he will suffer.

However, you may be right.

Honda don't give a .... about the riders, they only care about having Honda at the top.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Dec 1 2007, 01:09 AM) [snapback]102956[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Did anyone ever consider the reason Rossi quit testing this week was that the Yamaha with Stones didnt have 1.38's in it.He was right there near the top till it got serious, then he packs up and goes home.Or that could mean,ive got these fuckers covered and aint going to let them know till its to late.Or maybe his hand WAS hurting.We have all frickin winter to come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories.Im allready bored out of my mind.

I'd say it was the hand, this is from day 2:

You are all kidding yourselfes if you think Dani and Nicky will develop totally different bikes to ride next year. The 08 bike will clearly be far better than the 07 by the time next season starts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Dec 1 2007, 01:09 AM) [snapback]102956[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Did anyone ever consider the reason Rossi quit testing this week was that the Yamaha with Stones didnt have 1.38's in it.He was right there near the top till it got serious, then he packs up and goes home.Or that could mean,ive got these fuckers covered and aint going to let them know till its to late.Or maybe his hand WAS hurting.We have all frickin winter to come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories.Im allready bored out of my mind.

Pedrosa and Hayden did those times on qualifiers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Dec 1 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]103005[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You are all kidding yourselfes if you think Dani and Nicky will develop totally different bikes to ride next year. The 08 bike will clearly be far better than the 07 by the time next season starts.


Two different Repsol Hondas has already been a reality. When Nicky started the 2007 season it was obvious he couldn't ride the RC212V. We already know he swapped out every nut, bolt, swingarm, fork setup, etc. etc. that Honda would provide. By the end of the year, Hayden was hugely improved and Dani was marginally better as well.

They've already been running two bikes for some time. I think Honda is embracing the fact that Nicky cannot develop for Dani, Dani can't develop for Nicky.

They're already building two different bikes, why not give each rider exactly what he wants in terms of setup parts (frame, suspension, swingarm, fairings) and then turn them loose?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Dec 1 2007, 02:09 AM) [snapback]102956[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Did anyone ever consider the reason Rossi quit testing this week was that the Yamaha with Stones didnt have 1.38's in it.He was right there near the top till it got serious, then he packs up and goes home.Or that could mean,ive got these fuckers covered and aint going to let them know till its to late.Or maybe his hand WAS hurting.We have all frickin winter to come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories.Im allready bored out of my mind.


Have you ever broken anything at all?
I assume not, otherwise you wouldn't dream of asking that question.

One thing is pain, and it most certainly was there allthough manageable, and than you got the psycological factor: The pain is there to remaind you what happens if you push to far, also manageable. Finally you combine those two and you have the stress and fatigue it all put on you including the increasing pain that will occour when you stress the broken parts. After 3 days with about 200 laps in total you are not able to, or should not be able to be at the top when it gets "serious". Btw, do you really think it was anyones game (ie not serious) the two previous days? I'd say Stoners craches prove otherwise, and with that follows that Rossi's times were pretty close to how fast it's possible to go with the equipment and settings of the day. I think that's one of the reasons he could leave with a light hart. He had proven more than he had to allready.