Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Mental Anarchist
Rarely do i disagree with you, but this one i do. There are so many variables in a race, it would be hard to predict them all running 3 lap sprints. How the bike acts full of fuel, 3/4 full, 1\2 full etc. When exactly are the tires going to fall off the performance table. When is the rider going to start hitting the wall mentally. You can use mathmatical equations to predict these happenings, but to me, thats all they would be is predictions instead of first hand knowledge. Pedrosa's MO in his career is to fade at the end of the race. Is it him physically, mentally, or could it be the bike goes away because they didnt have it set up to optimize a full race. You really cant argue with Lorenzo's methods of setting up his bike for race day, it has brought him a ton of success.
Rarely do i disagree with you, but this one i do. There are so many variables in a race, it would be hard to predict them all running 3 lap sprints. How the bike acts full of fuel, 3/4 full, 1\2 full etc. When exactly are the tires going to fall off the performance table. When is the rider going to start hitting the wall mentally. You can use mathmatical equations to predict these happenings, but to me, thats all they would be is predictions instead of first hand knowledge. Pedrosa's MO in his career is to fade at the end of the race. Is it him physically, mentally, or could it be the bike goes away because they didnt have it set up to optimize a full race. You really cant argue with Lorenzo's methods of setting up his bike for race day, it has brought him a ton of success.
Do not underestimate the importance of running race simulations. I wrote a story for a Belgian magazine about Lorenzo's 2012 championship, and interviewed Wilco Zeelenberg about it. Zeelenberg pointed out the race simulations as a key ingredient, for three reasons:
1. Race fitness. All of these riders are in peak physical condition, but you only really know where your body is going to suffer after riding a MotoGP bike flat our for 27 laps by riding a MotoGP bike flat out for 27 laps. Zeelenberg singled out the arm pump that both Pedrosa and Stoner suffered at Qatar as being down to a lack of running race simulations. Lorenzo knew that would happen, because he'd already felt it during race sims in Sepang, so he changed his approach and training to reduce the effect.
2. Concentration. These riders are concentrating 100% for 45 minutes. My personal best is about 12 seconds. It is physically, mentally and emotionally draining to concentrate 100% for such a period of time, and they only way to manage is by training for it. Again, Lorenzo's physical training regime is focused on building this, but doing it on a bike is the only way to test it.
3. Understanding the limit, even after a number of laps. Rough translation of Zeelenberg's quotes (EXCLUSIVE! ZEELENBERG TELLS POWERSLIDE HOW LORENZO FINDS THE LIMIT!) "Because he can do that (ride at the limit expending less energy, because of his smooth style), he can find the limit more easily, he can feel that because he can ride seven, eight, nine laps right at the limit, he knows 'oh, have to be careful here, have to be careful there'. He does that in the race as well, but he risks falling off less. He can feel the limit earlier. He creates that feeling by being physically capable of putting in so many laps."
1. Race fitness. All of these riders are in peak physical condition, but you only really know where your body is going to suffer after riding a MotoGP bike flat our for 27 laps by riding a MotoGP bike flat out for 27 laps. Zeelenberg singled out the arm pump that both Pedrosa and Stoner suffered at Qatar as being down to a lack of running race simulations. Lorenzo knew that would happen, because he'd already felt it during race sims in Sepang, so he changed his approach and training to reduce the effect.
2. Concentration. These riders are concentrating 100% for 45 minutes. My personal best is about 12 seconds. It is physically, mentally and emotionally draining to concentrate 100% for such a period of time, and they only way to manage is by training for it. Again, Lorenzo's physical training regime is focused on building this, but doing it on a bike is the only way to test it.
3. Understanding the limit, even after a number of laps. Rough translation of Zeelenberg's quotes (EXCLUSIVE! ZEELENBERG TELLS POWERSLIDE HOW LORENZO FINDS THE LIMIT!) "Because he can do that (ride at the limit expending less energy, because of his smooth style), he can find the limit more easily, he can feel that because he can ride seven, eight, nine laps right at the limit, he knows 'oh, have to be careful here, have to be careful there'. He does that in the race as well, but he risks falling off less. He can feel the limit earlier. He creates that feeling by being physically capable of putting in so many laps."
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
J4rn0
wtf are you on about with stimulating stoner, it may have been one of his advantages to be able to quickly evaluate parts/set up changes ,surely because hes up to speed so fast, but i don't see how that counters the criticism that both he and dani have to take: they didn't work as hard as lorenzo and lorenzo uses that as his biggest advantage IMO
wtf are you on about with stimulating stoner, it may have been one of his advantages to be able to quickly evaluate parts/set up changes ,surely because hes up to speed so fast, but i don't see how that counters the criticism that both he and dani have to take: they didn't work as hard as lorenzo and lorenzo uses that as his biggest advantage IMO
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Jumkie
Stoner was most likely conditioned by riding a Ducati and spending most of his time chasing a flukey set-up. Not much point cruising around for 20 simulation laps 2 seconds off the pace, ala the GOAT, then coming in to the pits to stare down the cripple guy in the wheelchair. Sorry couldnt help throwing that stone.
Now Lorenzo, well the Yamaha is mostly a well sorted package that lends itself to race simulations. Throw Lorenzo on the DuCRT and I think this approach might not be quite so effective. But certainly in the case of putting mental pressure on your teammate and the opposition Lorenzo is very good and it worked well in 2012. Thats his thing really, being consistent, its his DNA as much as Stoner's is the one quick lap. They cant change what they are.
Stoner was most likely conditioned by riding a Ducati and spending most of his time chasing a flukey set-up. Not much point cruising around for 20 simulation laps 2 seconds off the pace, ala the GOAT, then coming in to the pits to stare down the cripple guy in the wheelchair. Sorry couldnt help throwing that stone.
Now Lorenzo, well the Yamaha is mostly a well sorted package that lends itself to race simulations. Throw Lorenzo on the DuCRT and I think this approach might not be quite so effective. But certainly in the case of putting mental pressure on your teammate and the opposition Lorenzo is very good and it worked well in 2012. Thats his thing really, being consistent, its his DNA as much as Stoner's is the one quick lap. They cant change what they are.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Dis thre d is hil rio s.
Once aga n the aussie she p have band d togethr 2 defnd Stonr. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Doi g less of som thi g mak s you beter. Nice theory, im using it rite now. Im only gon a rite half the leters i used 2.
It worx. It took me 1/2 da time to rite dis post.
Once aga n the aussie she p have band d togethr 2 defnd Stonr. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Doi g less of som thi g mak s you beter. Nice theory, im using it rite now. Im only gon a rite half the leters i used 2.
It worx. It took me 1/2 da time to rite dis post.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
cliché guevara
Edit. Not you cliche. I meAn j4nos anal stimation post
I agree with CG although i would take it a step further. I think this is the dumbest post ive ever read on this site.
Edit. Not you cliche. I meAn j4nos anal stimation post
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
birdman
JK failed to spot the half the Stoner supporters weren't Australian.
American Geography being what it is - Hey I've been there three times and the following map is correct, they only begin to reshape the model at University level, around the time they start talking about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Church, most forget the map, the Santa Delusion is very traumatic.
I was looking for the updated map that replaces "commies" with Arab Terrorists but could't find it, mind, I didn't go past line 3 of Google images.
Somewhere down in the purple where people cannibalise is Stonerland.
JK failed to spot the half the Stoner supporters weren't Australian.
American Geography being what it is - Hey I've been there three times and the following map is correct, they only begin to reshape the model at University level, around the time they start talking about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Church, most forget the map, the Santa Delusion is very traumatic.
I was looking for the updated map that replaces "commies" with Arab Terrorists but could't find it, mind, I didn't go past line 3 of Google images.
Somewhere down in the purple where people cannibalise is Stonerland.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Joined Mar 2010
543 Posts | 1+
Don't really remember Rossi doing full race simulations at Yamaha.
It comes down to riding style I guess. Lorenzo beats you on consistency, Stoner/Pedrosa beat you with shear pace by trying to run from the green light.
If running race simulations was the key, Hayden would be the GOAT.
It comes down to riding style I guess. Lorenzo beats you on consistency, Stoner/Pedrosa beat you with shear pace by trying to run from the green light.
If running race simulations was the key, Hayden would be the GOAT.
