Isn't he brilliant

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 15 2010, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, I don't think it was anything extraordinary about Rossi's statement, and I suspect neither did Tom. In fact it was quite a typical statement coming from Rossi,

Uhm, Babel, did you read the title of this thread?



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I'm a bit surprised that you do your usual 1 page rant and base it on a faulty premises.

This is the title to the thread: "Isn't he brilliant" There in lies your premise. Any response to that in regards to the actual article linked, as you say, is "faulty".


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>What make you believe that there is a contradiction between feeling like a traitor for leaving and the critical statements up front? Is it so hard to see that someone could do as they think is best and still feel guilty about it.

Perhaps its a translation thing? He uses the word "traitor" which alludes to loyalty; yet, his public courting of Ducati (fact) is infact a breach of common 'loyalty clauses". Amazing. Yet, here we have a thread to accolade his "brilliance"? Well, then, yes, he is a brilliant figure...as in the glare one gets in the eyes that momentarily causes blindness.

From now on we will be able to refer to V's 'Public Figure Rule' when a rider responds to a question from the media. This is going to take massive pressure off Stoner on these boards because now when he does answer a question it will be deemed a 'Public Figure Rule' answer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Mar 15 2010, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From now on we will be able to refer to V's 'Public Figure Rule' when a rider responds to a question from the media. This is going to take massive pressure off Stoner on these boards because now when he does answer a question it will be deemed a 'Public Figure Rule' answer.

Except for fishing trips that are not answers to any direct question! (Just joking mate! ).

Note: And as I told jumkie... He (Jumkie) has a (great) point because Rossi will be talking through his elbows about his future, more so as the Silly Season grows!

I am surprised the North Queensland fishing organisations have not jumped on board and sponsored Stoner. Imagine the Ducati with a 'Gone Fishing' logo on the side. If Suppo was still at Ducati I am sure he would of negotiated it by now!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Mar 16 2010, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am surprised the North Queensland fishing organisations have not jumped on board and sponsored Stoner. Imagine the Ducati with a 'Gone Fishing' logo on the side. If Suppo was still at Ducati I am sure he would of negotiated it by now!!!!
Obviously management of that fishing company have better brain than yours, they know Stoner is not marketable rider and will portray negative image of their company. .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Mar 15 2010, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Obviously management of that fishing company have better brain than yours, they know Stoner is not marketable rider and will portray negative image of their company. .

Perhaps spewing in the boat?

I may say, in that interview Rossi wasn't especially brilliant. He is 31 now, and more businesslike and professional. He was basically telling us that problems with yamaha seem solved and now he is in love with them again -- but these loyalties depend on many conditions so can change quickly.

What I think is more true is that he recognizes that the rivals he has now are stronger than any previous ones, and that he is going to keep the confrontation with them on the track only. Age has made him more mature and Stoner and others must be happy he's not retiring, so they have the possibility to try and beat him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 16 2010, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I may say, in that interview Rossi wasn't especially brilliant. He is 31 now, and more businesslike and professional. He was basically telling us that problems with yamaha seem solved and now he is in love with them again -- but these loyalties depend on many conditions so can change quickly.

What I think is more true is that he recognizes that the rivals he has now are stronger than any previous ones, and that he is going to keep the confrontation with them on the track only. Age has made him more mature and Stoner and others must be happy he's not retiring, so they have the possibility to try and beat him.
Agreed. Not sure they will succeed though

Whether you read the article or not, Vale is brilliant either way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 16 2010, 03:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I may say, in that interview Rossi wasn't especially brilliant. He is 31 now, and more businesslike and professional. He was basically telling us that problems with yamaha seem solved and now he is in love with them again -- but these loyalties depend on many conditions so can change quickly.

What I think is more true is that he recognizes that the rivals he has now are stronger than any previous ones, and that he is going to keep the confrontation with them on the track only. Age has made him more mature and Stoner and others must be happy he's not retiring, so they have the possibility to try and beat him.
J4rno, why do you hate Rossi so much?

I totally expected a different response from you; props on this post. You are totally right on. Its pretty much the same reaction I had, but of course my response was a bit more sanguine as I tried to combat the open Bopperism (which I'm fond of doing). But If I would write my post again, it would be similar to yours here. Frankly, I'm not even sure if this particular interview deserved its own thread as a point of discussion, certainly not a point to accolade his "brilliance" for which I can think of other more suited occasions to give the man his due.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 15 2010, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Uhm, Babel, did you read the title of this thread?
Jepp, did you?
You see in my mind someone may be brilliant without doing something extraordinary in a specific event. Take Rossi's riding instead. No doubt he is brilliant, right? Does every race he attend to be extraordinary, NO. It's enough to be on par and still be brilliant.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>This is the title to the thread: "Isn't he brilliant" There in lies your premise. Any response to that in regards to the actual article linked, as you say, is "faulty".
So the premise can only be in the original title? I suppose that's a King Jumkie decision

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Perhaps its a translation thing? He uses the word "traitor" which alludes to loyalty; yet, his public courting of Ducati (fact) is infact a breach of common 'loyalty clauses". Amazing. Yet, here we have a thread to accolade his "brilliance"? Well, then, yes, he is a brilliant figure...as in the glare one gets in the eyes that momentarily causes blindness.
What is it you don't understand. I say again: "Is it so hard to see that someone could do as they think is best and still feel guilty about it?"
Another point is that if you feel betrayed by your own you loose that feeling of loyalty, periodically or permanent.
Rossi express his feelings about the issue as they are right now and that's obviously very good.
He did the same thing last summer and the relation were obviously no as good. The relation between Rossi and Yamaha changes all the time and so do the feeling of loyalty when major events unfold. Just like any other racer (with Hayden as a possible exception) Rossi complain when there is something he doesn't like. That's as far as loyalty clauses go in motorbike racing. Your moral high ground (maybe because Hayden probably wouldn't do a thing like that, he just bends over poor thing) in this case is a big punch in the air and has hardly relevance.
You just go on defining your high moral loyalty clauses and your own rules for premise but don't expect everyone else to comply
I like what he says because it's a strong message that he has gotten what he wanted from Yamaha, the tool to beat the others, and at the same time he managed to lower the expectations around silly season. A good days work I would say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 16 2010, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No doubt he is brilliant, right?
I realize if you are a diehard Rossi fan, your initial reaction is to defend him even when the praise is in this case, not particularly praise worthy. This is why the term "Bopper" exist, because in the face of giving accolade it should at least be something genuinely praiseworthy. In this case, this brief interview left nothing that a regular person would find "brilliant".

Babel, I'm trying to be nice, but your reply is weak You have nothing, so you're splitting hairs. The thread was started with the idea that this interview shows how brilliant as in gracious Rossi is, yet I showed you not only was it far from extraordiary, but rather ungracious and self serving.

As far as you're Hayden comparison, I agree, I can appreciate Rossi pushing to get his way (nothing wrong in that). The problem starts when (not just me and you but in general) that this standard is not accepted across the board with other riders we follow, namely, somebody like Stoner. So, as you can imagine, I fondly exploit this double standard and give the Boppers a hard time. Oddly, this thread wasn't started by a classical Bopper (Tom) but if you noticed, his intention was in question.

As far as Loyalty Clauses, this is not imaginary, they exist in contracts because you don't want a guy you are employing to start talking .... about your company if they are dissatisfied for something as lame as giving your co-worker a new contract. If you were Yamaha (seriously, put yourself in their shoes) you would expect professionalism when trying to negotiate a new contract without employee openly talking about going with your competitor. Not only is it in loyalty clauses that you agree to when you sign (and cash your check) but also the league usually has rules against it. I know that in US professional sports, players can not talk to other teams unless given permission, not sure if Dorna has such rules though I imagine they do (besides it being rather unseemly).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 17 2010, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I realize if you are a diehard Rossi fan, your initial reaction is to defend him even when the praise is in this case, not particularly praise worthy. This is why the term "Bopper" exist, because in the face of giving accolade it should at least be something genuinely praiseworthy. In this case, this brief interview left nothing that a regular person would find "brilliant".

Babel, I'm trying to be nice, but your reply is weak You have nothing, so you're splitting hairs. The thread was started with the idea that this interview shows how brilliant as in gracious Rossi is, yet I showed you not only was it far from extraordiary, but rather ungracious and self serving.

As far as you're Hayden comparison, I agree, I can appreciate Rossi pushing to get his way (nothing wrong in that). The problem starts when (not just me and you but in general) that this standard is not accepted across the board with other riders we follow, namely, somebody like Stoner. So, as you can imagine, I fondly exploit this double standard and give the Boppers a hard time. Oddly, this thread wasn't started by a classical Bopper (Tom) but if you noticed, his intention was in question. employee openly talking about going with your competitor. Not only is it in loyalty clauses that you agree to when you sign (and cash your check) but also the league usually has rules against it. I know that in US professional sports, players can not talk to other teams unless given permission, not sure if Dorna has such rules though I imagine they do (besides it being rather unseemly).

I do agree that vr's issues with Yamaha and jl did get a little out of hand at the end of last year until it's resolution recently, however the basis of your argument is vr's supposed open discussions with ducati, the only statement I remember vr making about ducati is that they were 'never an option'. Ducati seemed to be the ones fueling that fire, as they would.

Lots of smoke from you jum but no fire here

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Mar 16 2010, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do agree that vr's issues with Yamaha and jl did get a little out of hand at the end of last year until it's resolution recently, however the basis of your argument is vr's supposed open discussions with ducati, the only statement I remember vr making about ducati is that they were 'never an option'. Ducati seemed to be the ones fueling that fire, as they would.

Lots of smoke from you jum but no fire here

Talpa, then let me refresh your memory. Tell me, how will you spin out of this one?

He [Rossi] was quoted by BBC as saying that Yamaha will have to choose between him and Lorenzo, otherwise he will leave the team and join Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>“Yamaha have to decide between me and Jorge for 2011. <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%I have a great option to join Ducati,” said Rossi in an interview with the BBC, shortly after scoring a runner-up spot in the season finale at Valencia. Valentino Rossi

Ooops, did I just say that out loud, to a media outlet, for the world to read? Uhm, I have a question, 'Vale, how do you know you have "a great option to join Ducati?' 'Sounds to me like you've been talking'. You see Talpa, some of us who are hopelessly addicted to this sport read and remember what our heros say, and follow the drama as it unfold in its context.

He several times mentioned to the media as Ducati being an option (why not say Suzuki or whatever?)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>“I haven’t decided yet about my future, I will decide in the next year. I have a contract signed already with Yamaha (for 2010). For sure it is a great dream for everybody, to see Valentino with Ducati. We will see, I don’t know.”

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"It was a long chat [with the BBC], and at one point I was asked what the alternatives could be. So I went by exclusion, and<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100% I said Ducati could be an option. " Valentino Rossi

As if there was nothing left to leave to the imagination, he elaborated:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>‘I do not believe that Stoner would say no. Maybe he would want to measure himself against me with the same motorcycle [Ducati]…’ Valentino Rossi

It wasn’t the first time Rossi has spoken publicly about leaving his current employer, he did it before too:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"If it gets better I can wait another year. If not there is nothing left to do," he told Italian website La Gazzetta dello Sport.
"I have a good relationship with both Ducati and Honda but I would prefer Ducati because they are Italian."


Commence spinning below:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Mar 16 2010, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
As soon as Rossi starts to look like he stepped in a bit of mud, the threads should die! Hahahaha

This thread was taking such a nice journey too, all the Boppers were lining up to say how "Brilliant" Rossi is for saying he would stay with Yamaha. Ooops, I guess we all forgot he wasn't singing that tune a short time ago(^ quotes). Brilliant, the man is!

For details, see sig.

Rossi is brilliant for what hes achieved in the sport..he is the GOAT....but i didnt read anything "brilliant" in what he said.. it was cool sure but brilliant is a bit much imo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 16 2010, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> As soon as Rossi starts to look like he stepped in a bit of mud, the threads should die! Hahahaha

This thread was taking such a nice journey too, all the Boppers were lining up to say how "Brilliant" Rossi is for saying he would stay with Yamaha. Ooops, I guess we all forgot he wasn't singing that tune a short time ago(^ quotes). Brilliant, the man is!

For details, see sig.
You got selective memory Jumkie haven't you just, the interview with bbc you are refering to in very same interview he said very same thing that he would feel like a traitor if he go with any other way, because he feel very good with them.

So nothing new in that statement for me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Mar 16 2010, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is brilliant for what hes achieved in the sport..he is the GOAT....but i didnt read anything "brilliant" in what he said.. it was cool sure but brilliant is a bit much imo.
Yup, agree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Mar 16 2010, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You got selective memory Jumkie haven't you just, the interview with bbc you are refering to in very same interview he said very same thing that he would feel like a traitor if he go with any other way, because he feel very good with them.

So nothing new in that statement for me.
Selective reading inam? Have you ever heard of the idiom "speaking/talking out of both sides of your mouth"?

He gave Yamaha an ultimatum (look up that word buddy). Compare that with this article, the one that Tom is saying is "brilliant". Look, I'm ready to drop it because I know these guys are human and are looking out for themselves, but if you & co want to go on challenging the "brilliance" ad graciousness (or lack there of) in his statements.

Oh, and on your final point; uhm.... you're making my point Sherlock.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 17 2010, 03:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yup, agree.


Selective reading inam?

He gave Yamaha an ultimatum (look up that word buddy).

Oh, and on your final point; uhm.... you're making my point Sherlock.

I am not denying that Jumkie, if i remember correctly i was critical of Rossi saying those things in public. He should have kept all this behind the doors.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Mar 16 2010, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am not denying that Jumkie, if i remember correctly i was critical of Rossi saying those things in public. He should have kept all this behind the doors.
Cool. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with looking out for #1 (that means pushing to get the best, which Rossi has done to get exquisite support from Yamaha). Its just that I've had a problem with the double standard when others push for it also or speak their minds on a certain issue, then are vilified for it.

Honestly, and some may not believe it, but I admire Rossi for many aspects, but I also recognize the man is human and is subject to character flaws (we all have them). But when I read his followers gloss over his (flaws) but crucify Stoner for his flaws, then I usually exploit the double standard because its fun and easy to do buddy.