Is there a more reviled figure in GP than Puig

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I don't blame Rasputin for Honda's miserable state, I blame Honda for standing around with their finger up their corporate butt, doing nothing while Puig's agenda destroyed the team. Years of back-alley politics and backstabbing have come home to roost - Karma's a ....., ain't it Alberto! Geonerd

Just the first page:


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>How sweet carma can be! I hope Nicky rubs your midget lovin' faces in it good this year honda!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>even from the photo you can tell he's a complete toer


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>ever since the anti-hayden comments this smug punk made a few years back, I have cheered against honda. Nothing against Dani or Dovi. Just sucks they have have to lumped in with this worthless piece of sh.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi and Burgess build a title winning bike at honda, go to yam and do the same. Pedrosa and Puig take a title winning bike and "develop" it in to an mid pack finnisher (with help from HRC arrogance). They are lost and out of their league.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>More sponsorship money than talent, Puig was the same in his days as a racer, his pet Dwarf Cockroach Dani is going backwards and cannot even blame his own lack of development skills as OK racers on Satellite bikes have just proven.
Does he have a contract for next year ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I totally put Honda's fall from grace firmly on the shoulders of this ...... bag and his midget friend. sigh Someday the glory days will return. Someday ...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>What is Puig doing? he is basically ruling his rider out of 2010 title already WOW

And my personal favorite:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Dani did so much better when Hayden was around to steal his data.

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There are some vicious posts there!  A few brave (delusional) Pedrophiles make a weak attempt to defend the Chosen One, but the reaction to Puig seems unanimous: "Burn the Witch!!"
Hell, not even Bernie and Max generate this level of raw hatred. 

I also got a big 
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from the Hayden remark.  
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Here's a good one:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Honda is a "ho" to Repsol sponsorship. Puig comes with Repsol, and so does Dani. It is an Un-Holy trap for Honda, and they have no one to blame but themselves. They apparently think they can make bikes good enough so they don't need great riders. The Dani deal is too bad. He needs a manager like old Kenny Roberts who can really get his head on the right side of positive. Dani is talented and has a big weight advantage. He has an unstable situation because of injuries, and a poor mentor. He is wasting his time. He could have been a champ already. Soon his MOJO will be gone. Did I mention Puig SUCKS! When you have to trash the other half of the team to promote your own, you aren't teamworthy.
 
Without Puig, there is no MotoGP. He brings on the talent through the Red Bull Rookies, he is heavily involved in 125s, 250s (now Moto2), the Spanish Championship. He brings much needed millions in to the sport. Without him, MotoGP would be a second-rate circus wishing it could be more like WSBK.

Naturally, he wants his own riders to win, and will do whatever he can to make sure that happens. In MotoGP, he has singly failed to achieve this, mostly because he has stuck by Dani Pedrosa, who is simply not good enough, and Honda, who have been lost since Rossi and Burgess left, as those two (and Doohan before Rossi) kept HRC straight, and told them to do the right thing.

No doubt Puig has an unpleasant side to his personality, and can say some pretty stupid things. But MotoGP - and race fans like you, even those who hate him - need Puig and people like Puig to keep the series going.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without Puig, there is no MotoGP. He brings on the talent through the Red Bull Rookies, he is heavily involved in 125s, 250s (now Moto2), the Spanish Championship. He brings much needed millions in to the sport. Without him, MotoGP would be a second-rate circus wishing it could be more like WSBK.

Naturally, he wants his own riders to win, and will do whatever he can to make sure that happens. In MotoGP, he has singly failed to achieve this, mostly because he has stuck by Dani Pedrosa, who is simply not good enough, and Honda, who have been lost since Rossi and Burgess left, as those two (and Doohan before Rossi) kept HRC straight, and told them to do the right thing.

No doubt Puig has an unpleasant side to his personality, and can say some pretty stupid things. But MotoGP - and race fans like you, even those who hate him - need Puig and people like Puig to keep the series going.
However unfortunate it is I have to agree with you here. He seems to be a necessary evil at this stage......
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without Puig, there is no MotoGP. He brings on the talent through the Red Bull Rookies, he is heavily involved in 125s, 250s (now Moto2), the Spanish Championship. He brings much needed millions in to the sport. Without him, MotoGP would be a second-rate circus wishing it could be more like WSBK.

Naturally, he wants his own riders to win, and will do whatever he can to make sure that happens. In MotoGP, he has singly failed to achieve this, mostly because he has stuck by Dani Pedrosa, who is simply not good enough, and Honda, who have been lost since Rossi and Burgess left, as those two (and Doohan before Rossi) kept HRC straight, and told them to do the right thing.

No doubt Puig has an unpleasant side to his personality, and can say some pretty stupid things. But MotoGP - and race fans like you, even those who hate him - need Puig and people like Puig to keep the series going.
Agree and disagree.

Yes the series needs people like Puig to sustain it, and as a vital conduct between Moto GP and the Spanish Series, he has singularly nurtured a great deal of talent in addition to his continued stewardship over the Red Bull Rookies. I agree, as would the likes of Bradley Smith - or even contentiously Casey Stoner, who could conceivably be languishing in BSB on some uncompetitive private effort were it not for the fact that Dorna charged Puig with the task of scouting talent within the UK. Granted, an extreme scenario, but it illustrates the point.

In spite of this, there are some very competent personnel within the paddock, and a wealth of personalities within the sport who could have adequately fulfilled the role of Puig, and doubtless surpassed his achievements. As far as developing the rookies is concerned, one could anticipate an ex rider of far greater standing and reputation as Sito Pons in such a mentoring role, and commanding ten times the respect that Puig has. The indicting feedback that I have read from many of Alberto's ex acolytes speaks volumes, as does the general way that he is regarded by his pundits plaudits and peers. Unlike Pons, there appears to be very little respect for the man.

Yes he has put all his faith in Dani Pedrosa, who appears to not fulfilled his expectations, but on the flip side, far from furthering it Dani's career, since his graduation to MotoGP Alberto Puig has irrevocably damaged it together with the dynamic within that garage. Much like Davide Retardozzi, Puig has placed his individual vested interests above the interests of the team itself.

Dani was not the chosen one, Daijiro was the great white hope. Pedrosa has one season to redeem himself, before HRC finally call time on the double act. I would contend that their patience with Alberto is already exhausted.

This conflict of interests is not at the expense of the team dynamic at Repsol Honda, but his very capacity at HRC has tainted and influenced the politics of rookie recruitment/development and the streaming of riders into the sport for over a decade. Surely you as a journalist Krop would appreciate that in this particular role the incumbent should be without affiliation?

Regarding the question of attracting money into the series, KRsnr's ideas on sponsorship and external revenue have been ignored and dismissed by Dorna for years. it strikes me that Puig's reputation was built on a dodgy 'Telefonica connection' and he was simply given a spare Repsol shirt in his size. Money man? look no further that the likes of Suppo - that's what he does. It is no coincidence that HRC themselves did exactly that, which is why it might not be long until they show both Pedro and Puig the garage door.
 
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When I read the header I immediately thought of Pinky,Barry Machine etc
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.Just kidding folks,I can easily tolerate you!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2010, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In spite of this, there are some very competent personnel within the paddock, and a wealth of personalities within the sport who could have adequately fulfilled the role of Puig, and doubtless surpassed his achievements. As far as developing the rookies is concerned, one could anticipate an ex rider of far greater standing and reputation as Sito Pons in such a mentoring role, and commanding ten times the respect that Puig has. The indicting feedback that I have read from many of Alberto's ex acolytes speaks volumes, as does the general way that he is regarded by his pundits plaudits and peers. Unlike Pons, there appears to be very little respect for the man.

I wouldn't get all misty-eyed over Sito Pons. There's a very, very good reason Toni Elias broke his contract with Pons for Moto2 this year. Being less vicious and cruel than Attila the Hun does not necessarily make you a humanitarian.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2010, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This conflict of interests is not at the expense of the team dynamic at Repsol Honda, but his very capacity at HRC has tainted and influenced the politics of rookie recruitment/development and the streaming of riders into the sport for over a decade. Surely you as a journalist Krop would appreciate that in this particular role the incumbent should be without affiliation?

I agree in principle. However, Puig is ruthlessly efficient, and gets an incredible amount of stuff done, which is more than many in the paddock. I spoke to Danny Webb last year, and he was fulsome in his praise for Puig, though you are right to point to his detractors, too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2010, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Regarding the question of attracting money into the series, KRsnr's ideas on sponsorship and external revenue have been ignored and dismissed by Dorna for years. it strikes me that Puig's reputation was built on a dodgy 'Telefonica connection' and he was simply given a spare Repsol shirt in his size. Money man? look no further that the likes of Suppo - that's what he does. It is no coincidence that HRC themselves did exactly that, which is why it might not be long until they show both Pedro and Puig the garage door.

Suppo - you hit the nail on the head there. Watch this space. Or perhaps I mean watch that space ...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 4 2010, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Suppo - you hit the nail on the head there. Watch this space. Or perhaps I mean watch that space ...

"Space" as in ....... as some of the "conspiracy theorists" here would have? ie. he's preparing the way for "someone"?


Edit: or perhaps I should say "StOMEONEr?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't get all misty-eyed over Sito Pons. There's a very, very good reason Toni Elias broke his contract with Pons for Moto2 this year. Being less vicious and cruel than Attila the Hun does not necessarily make you a humanitarian.
Well put.

I'm surprised to hear this - perhaps I've been too naive. I have only ever heard good things about Pons, as I understood it he was well liked in the paddock. I can't picture him as a tyrant, but then I concede others are better placed and within the team enabling them to see precisely what takes place when the shutter is down.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2010, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well put.

I'm surprised to hear this - perhaps I've been too naive. I have only ever heard good things about Pons, as I understood it he was well liked in the paddock. I can't picture him as a tyrant, but then I concede others are better placed and within the team enabling them to see precisely what takes place when the shutter is down.

I can't go into details (for fear of publishing something libellous) but you will remember Elias signing with Pons, then getting out of that contract after he heard about Hector Barbera's problems getting paid.

Suffice it to say that when team managers draw up team budgets, they have been known to make sure that their salary is the first thing to get paid, and their salary can sometimes bear no apparent relation to the size of the budget.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't go into details (for fear of publishing something libellous) but you will remember Elias signing with Pons, then getting out of that contract after he heard about Hector Barbera's problems getting paid.

Suffice it to say that when team managers draw up team budgets, they have been known to make sure that their salary is the first thing to get paid, and their salary can sometimes bear no apparent relation to the size of the budget.
Ah I see...shades of Jose Luis Dantin and his legacy darkening proceedings.

Sito doesn't have a luxury yacht moored somewhere off Monaco does he?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't go into details (for fear of publishing something libellous) but you will remember Elias signing with Pons, then getting out of that contract after he heard about Hector Barbera's problems getting paid.
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well at least he didn't get his life threatened like amatrin did to lorenzo when it came contract time.
 
Great stuff kropo and arri. Thread is good too, about time we had something decent to discuss
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without Puig, there is no MotoGP. He brings on the talent through the Red Bull Rookies, he is heavily involved in 125s, 250s (now Moto2), the Spanish Championship. He brings much needed millions in to the sport. Without him, MotoGP would be a second-rate circus wishing it could be more like WSBK.
I've watched motogp decline in entertainment value the last 3 years. Since the advent of 800's we rarely see a good race outside midpack which we are only afforded rare glimpses of. The grid is stacked with ex 250 riders most of which are from Spain or Italy. I have maintained for quite some time that Rossi is the glue that holds motogp together. He transcends border and culture. He is loved in all nations and is the reason why most turn on their tv's on Sunday. If Rossi was to depart the series today what Dorna would quickly fiure out that would be left with a world championship series mostly devoid of world participation.
The 3 exceptions are Stoner, Hayden and Spies. What would most likely happen is that Stoner would wipe the field every week leaving the series less interesting to motop's favorite demographic of Spain and Italy.
Hayden would be a non entity in garnerning American viewership because even most of us diehard fans are resolved that he will never contend again. Spies is the wildcard that could bring more American viewership but only if he can really contend with the aliens something that only time will tell.
Gone are the days where an AMA and a WSBK championship could earn you a ride to Moto GP. Spies did it only after winning multiple AMA championships and still being told to buzz off and only after achieving what noone else has ever done in WSBK he was offered a ride. Even moto 2, the feeder series for motogp has stuck it's nose in the air when it comes to American riders.
Now if you're 3rd in the 250 championship it seems that you are a shoe in to move up to the big class.
DeAngelis, Aoyama, Takahashi, Bautista ,Barbera, Espargo, Kallio (and wasn't Pasini offered a ride) are all very talented riders but should they really be in this class? Are they really better than some of the AMA WSBK and possibly BSB guys that will never get a chance?

When I read that Puig is good for the series you have to ask yourself at what cost. The racing sucks, the bikes suck, and it is mainly a Italy vs Spain championship. Without Rossi (and if Spies sucks) I can't believe that America and possibly the Brits as well really will be as passionate as they are supporting the series. Outside of the money he brings all I see Puig doing is furthering the downward spiral that motogp has taken.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without Puig, there is no MotoGP. He brings on the talent through the Red Bull Rookies, he is heavily involved in 125s, 250s (now Moto2), the Spanish Championship. He brings much needed millions in to the sport. Without him, MotoGP would be a second-rate circus wishing it could be more like WSBK.

Naturally, he wants his own riders to win, and will do whatever he can to make sure that happens. In MotoGP, he has singly failed to achieve this, mostly because he has stuck by Dani Pedrosa, who is simply not good enough, and Honda, who have been lost since Rossi and Burgess left, as those two (and Doohan before Rossi) kept HRC straight, and told them to do the right thing.

No doubt Puig has an unpleasant side to his personality, and can say some pretty stupid things. But MotoGP - and race fans like you, even those who hate him - need Puig and people like Puig to keep the series going.
That is one bold statement. I have never looked at one person,even Rossi, who is bigger than a sport.I have said it a million times, that in the long run,putting anyone on a pedestal is counter productive. I think WSBK learned that lesson when they put Ducati over the sport. They would still love to see Ducati dominate, but not at the expense of the series. I mentioned in another thread that Ducati is on the verge of a weight reduction after the next event, and i bet the Flamini's are secretly hoping it doesnt come to that. If it does, many will perceive it as favoritism, even though the rule was put in the books as mainly a shield to keep the 1200cc big block from running away with the series. GP will go on without Rossi,come to think of it,when he retires,who better to fill Puigs shoes than him.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Apr 3 2010, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When I read that Puig is good for the series you have to ask yourself at what cost. The racing sucks, the bikes suck, and it is mainly a Italy vs Spain championship. Without Rossi (and if Spies sucks) I can't believe that America and possibly the Brits as well really will be as passionate as they are supporting the series. Outside of the money he brings all I see Puig doing is furthering the downward spiral that motogp has taken.

I really dislike Puig b/c of what he said about Hayden, and I've always thought that he was abusing his power as a Dorna employee to poison the Repsol Honda team (if poisoning HRC is possible). However, over the years I have learned about the role he plays within the sport so, while I will probably always refer to him as Emperor Puig just like many others on this website, I'm actually starting to believe that the guy may have some competence. Isn't it unusual that Honda appear lost at sea only a few months after demoting him? The data sharing stuff has all been good, but Honda aren't exactly reaping the benefits of wrestling the team from Puig/Pedrosa.

As far as the overall state of motorsports these days, it's hard to be optimistic.

I hate to say it, but the problem lays mainly at the feet of the promoters and the manufacturers. The manufacturers are really kind of bored by racing. They've built thousands of mousetraps to beat the same manufacturers for decades. The fans, on the other hand, are always intrigued to see different racing machine concepts. We love seeing the equipment evolve, and we like formulas that create fierce racing. The manufacturers couldn't care less about those things at this point. They are worried about moment of inertia, hp/liter, combustion efficiency, aero efficiency, etc etc etc.

It seems like the sport should naturally evolve towards what the fans want to watch which would lead the manufacturers to embrace a more fun and entertaining race series that is accessible to fans. Unfortunately, the promoters and the manufacturers themselves use every opportunity to tell people that a sweet LMP car or a fantastic pneumatic-valve MotoGP bike = the best consumer goods.
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As soon as the manufacturers get into a grudge match the powerful companies rewrite the rulebook so they can exploit an advantage. The big players start fighting over the commercial rights money and dumping tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into the sport which is meaningless b/c they changed the rules to kick people out. The fans lose and the organizers feign outrage.

Imo, the only bright spot on the horizon right now is IndyCar. I still think the sport needs a lot of work b/c watching cars drive in ovals is quite boring, but they are giving a doing a very big rethink of the technical regulations. They've even been tossing around cost-containment ideas like open-sourcing.
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Open sourcing? Public open sourcing? So the fans could theoretically download parts schematics?

I think they'll have to modify open sourcing quite a bit to get high performance racing equipment, but still, there is a silver lining in the cloud of modern motorsports.
 
 <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Apr 3 2010, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without Puig, there is no MotoGP. He brings on the talent through the Red Bull Rookies, he is heavily involved in 125s, 250s (now Moto2), the Spanish Championship. He brings much needed millions in to the sport. Without him, MotoGP would be a second-rate circus wishing it could be more like WSBK.

Naturally, he wants his own riders to win, and will do whatever he can to make sure that happens. In MotoGP, he has singly failed to achieve this, mostly because he has stuck by Dani Pedrosa, who is simply not good enough, and Honda, who have been lost since Rossi and Burgess left, as those two (and Doohan before Rossi) kept HRC straight, and told them to do the right thing.

I prefer to credit good old fashioned Bad Karma. In my experience, people do not respond well to the sort of 'leadership' Mr. Puig is likely inflicting upon them. IMO, the guy's personality and personal agenda are so virulent that he has managed to poison the entire team. When a control freak of Puig's caliber runs amok (can anyone seriously argue that he hasn't 'run amok' at HRC ?), competent, hardworking personnel are soon replaced by IQ-50 lackeys and sycophants, and the few useful people remaining are demoralized by the 'Ethics be Damned' environment. I may be overstating the situation, but consider that it wouldn't take much damage to knock the edge off a once top-flight organization.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>No doubt Puig has an unpleasant side to his personality, and can say some pretty stupid things. But MotoGP - and race fans like you, even those who hate him - need Puig and people like Puig to keep the series going.

I'm discouraged that you're so willing to give Puig a Free Pass. What exactly do you mean with "Unpleasant side…? You say 'potato,' I say '........'  
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You state as a 'fact' that Puig's Herculean efforts have single handedly prevented MotoGP from spontaneously collapsing into a black hole. Let me flip this around – if (a big ask, IMO) Puig really is so important, is that because he's such a hard working genius, or is it instead because he has greedily accumulated so much raw power and influence through the years? Is he the benevolent savior, or just another scheming Max Mosley? The world is full of sociopathic manipulators, control freaks and power whores – Hell, the world is RUN by them. Anyone who has worked in a Big Corporation environment, their native habitat, and has witnessed these ........ at work will appreciate how tremendously destructive these people are. Just because some back stabbing ladder climber has made themselves 'important' does not mean we should worship the ....... as our Delivering Hero.  

In my eyes, the defining moment of Puig's tenure occurred when he hijacked the MotoGP.com site to foam and froth at Nicky. If THAT doesn't qualify as a 'mad abuse of power,' I don't know what does.       

I can't see HRC becoming functional and successful until the Powers That Be take a LARGE broom to the Puig hegemony.  Recent news suggests that Puig's role has been 'reduced,' but what does that really mean?  If Honda doesn't take aggressive action, the cancer will remain and the patient's recovery cannot be guaranteed. 
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Apr 4 2010, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> 

I prefer to credit good old fashioned Bad Karma. In my experience, people do not respond well to the sort of 'leadership' Mr. Puig is likely inflicting upon them. IMO, the guy's personality and personal agenda are so virulent that he has managed to poison the entire team. When a control freak of Puig's caliber runs amok (can anyone seriously argue that he hasn't 'run amok' at HRC ?), competent, hardworking personnel are soon replaced by IQ-50 lackeys and sycophants, and the few useful people remaining are demoralized by the 'Ethics be Damned' environment. I may be overstating the situation, but consider that it wouldn't take much damage to knock the edge off a once top-flight organization.



I'm discouraged that you're so willing to give Puig a Free Pass. What exactly do you mean with "Unpleasant side…? You say 'potato,' I say '........'  
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You state as a 'fact' that Puig's Herculean efforts have single handedly prevented MotoGP from spontaneously collapsing into a black hole. Let me flip this around – if (a big ask, IMO) Puig really is so important, is that because he's such a hard working genius, or is it instead because he has greedily accumulated so much raw power and influence through the years? Is he the benevolent savior, or just another scheming Max Mosley? The world is full of sociopathic manipulators, control freaks and power whores – Hell, the world is RUN by them. Anyone who has worked in a Big Corporation environment, their native habitat, and has witnessed these ........ at work will appreciate how tremendously destructive these people are. Just because some back stabbing ladder climber has made themselves 'important' does not mean we should worship the ....... as our Delivering Hero.  

In my eyes, the defining moment of Puig's tenure occurred when he hijacked the MotoGP.com site to foam and froth at Nicky. If THAT doesn't qualify as a 'mad abuse of power,' I don't know what does.       

I can't see HRC becoming functional and successful until the Powers That Be take a LARGE broom to the Puig hegemony.  Recent news suggests that Puig's role has been 'reduced,' but what does that really mean?  If Honda doesn't take aggressive action, the cancer will remain and the patient's recovery cannot be guaranteed. 
Excellent post
 

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