i would disagree that manipulating the media to like you is a key ingredient for success. maybe for some, but not all people. some athletes, like Kobe Bryant, are fueled by the exact opposite of what Rossi and Jorge like. the more people hate Kobe, the better he is. it all depends on the person.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I would not say he struggled last year at Indy.....he quailfied 3rd and grabbed too much front brake lossing the front running with Lorenzo at the front. Struggling would be starting at the back row and not running up in the top 7 at all during the race. He made a mistake which caused a DNF but I would not say that track was kicking his .... He won the first year there during a hurricane....last year just was not his day.
I guess if people hold Rossi to the high standards he has set....then a rare mistake like this counts as struggling. I am curiuos, if Rossi was stuggling at Indy last year....what would people say about Capirossi since 2008?? He has "rossi" in his name, so why isn't he getting it done??? :
He was struggling all weekend a quick lap doesn't mean crap look at Le Mans this year, got pole but struggled with set up still.
So while you may not like it, Rossi's clown antics have served him well, as has his other side. Though its very presumptuous to say that his fans don't see, or accept, Rossi's the other 'darker' behind the scenes side. Pre/ Post Race Clown antics, while sometimes being mildly humorous don't even come close to the entertainment Rossi has provided during a lot of the races I've witnessed him win over the years, and his darker side has arguably contributed more to this.
What I have to note is that I've witnessed just as ridiculous slander of Rossi here, possibly even more so, than Stoner. So maybe removing reason to prove ones point is just a part of Human Nature…..
As a mick doohan fan I don't think calling valentino ruthless on track whilst true is necessarily slanderous. I don't think he is particularly arrogant, and not more than other sports stars of his stature. As far as the post race antics go I can take or leave them ( I found them amusing when he was a teenager, but am a bit over them now) but they don't actually offend me.
great pay back casey did the kallio and espargaro. whout douches. wreck stoners lap and then expect a tow? that sht has to change really. f1 u get penalised for blocking , same should be said for motogp. u have plenty of room to cruise around out of the line if u want,.
in regards to rossi, its easy to be cheerfull and sportsmanship when your winning, but his true colors are shining thru now.
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
two yr deal for Haystack
Nicky Hayden: "Next year I'll be teamed with some guy named Rossi, who knows a little something about bikes."..< this a dig at Tracy and his bike development skills. ?
1st time Rossi has crashed twice in a day since Mugello 2001. Crashed on out lap to grid, then on last lap. Hawaiian colours race. Wet day.
Nicky Hayden: "Next year I'll be teamed with some guy named Rossi, who knows a little something about bikes."..< this a dig at Tracy and his bike development skills. ?
1st time Rossi has crashed twice in a day since Mugello 2001. Crashed on out lap to grid, then on last lap. Hawaiian colours race. Wet day.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Regarding Rossi, I am worried about the strange setup difficulties his team is having, rather that those two crashes.
Rossi became Rossi through crashes like that in his learning seasons. They could simply mean he's re-finding the limit after riding "safe" following his injury.
Now, if he and his team can finally sort out those fork springs (
) I would not be surprised seeing him strong in the race.
Rossi became Rossi through crashes like that in his learning seasons. They could simply mean he's re-finding the limit after riding "safe" following his injury.
Now, if he and his team can finally sort out those fork springs (
Not trying to cause our usual disagreement here but do you have sources or do you mean his 'off track media persona'?
Reason for the question is that as a person who knows a number of FIM, MA and other ranked officials (ticketed and volunteers), you may well be surprised as to how affable and approachable CS actually is when not at 'work'.
I know a number of stories (relayed to me personally) where CS has changed perceptions of many a fan who has come across him outside of the 'race arena) including competing in pushbike races. All have relayed a story of a guy who is very happy to chat, relaxed and comes across (to them) as extremely likeable (and yes, some were rabid anti-stoner beforehand).
From an 'officials' level Stoner is very highly regarded as polite, courteous and extremely pleasant at all times in, on or around the track (when viewed from teh official standpoint).
But, all officials relay having seen the 'pricklyness' displayed to team members etc when he has the 'race face' on and in reality they advise that it is nothing short of the usual shown by all riders under such circumstances.
The perception that CS is a prat is borne about by what we see in the media and (IMO here) is something that the media themselves love and feed. Just as with your (correct) statement that PR is crucial, for that PR to be successful there must be some level of the 'anti' and the media has built many up across the Rossi era to fill such a role (Gibbers, Biaggi, Pedrosa, Stoner to name a few). It makes good copy and therefore they do it, and in all likelyhood whilst VR himself does not necessarily start it, he is happy to feed it (just as I suspect are some of the anti brigade).
As I have been told many times by many people closely involved in racing, never judge a rider's personality or personal beliefs by what is seen in the media.
As for your 'slander' comment I too must disagree as I see far more slandering of the likes of CS than I do Rossi (aside from the ridiculous childish slurs about his sexuality). To use an example, I am yet to see or hear of VR being seriously questioned about motivation, or a suggestion that he is 'already on the Ducati payroll', but we have seen and heard this about CS from a number of media sources.
For mine, all have their place, the pleasant, the prickly, the manipulator etc - as long as they deserve to be there on ability .
Gaz
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Living relatively close to Stoners "haunts" I too can attest to several meetings with Stoner that have left the fan very impressed with Casey. One such meeting was in a gym in the Newcastle area, during Stoners recoup from the wrist surgery, they found him very open and honest and of a very peasant disposition, and very open about describing his injury and how it was recovering.
Talpa is just being idiotic to suggest as he has, hence .... I wouldn't worry about it Gaz, there are some who would rather listen to very questionable and grossly incongruous fairytales than accept what all evidence displays.
BM, I am not concerned about Talpa's take actually as he is entitled to his view, but I am more interested on what that view (and others) is based which is as I see it the 'media persona' and nor the true persona.
My take is simple and that is whilst one can only judge on what they see, a true judgement can only be made on what one experiences and dare I suggest that very few people in this forum have experienced most of these riders first hand. Thus, to me the judgement is based on what the media portrays and how they portray it which is often skewed by bias or an ulterior motive (ie. a leading question, a question which the journalist answer etc).
For mine, I have little experience with CS directly but have experience with a number of other Australian (and few OS ) racers and I am yet to interact with a rider whom I would describe as a total first class, knee jerk wayne kerr privately. Yes some riders are very prickly at the track and as the racing draws closer, but they are seldom the kind that I would like to see treated with a baseball bat hairbrush.
Many a team manger fits the bill, some promoters, some mechanics and a lot of pushy parents, just not yet a rider.
Garry
Stoner should be fined for his actions at the end of the quali session. What a toss pot!! Once again he lets himself down big time. And he cant understand why he is so disliked? Jesus!!
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Stoner should be fined for his actions at the end of the quali session. What a toss pot!! Once again he lets himself down big time. And he cant understand why he is so disliked? Jesus!!
Disliked by whom ? .... Is the key there
Wah wah wah it never stop form you guys
Disliked by whom ? .... Is the key there
Wah wah wah it never stop form you guys
Morning Barry!! Whats your valid opinion of Staceys actions then? Keep it short though. You have a habbit of boring the .... out of me.
To be frank, a small number of officials opinions don't really relate in such a discussion, whilst they have personal contact-its impossible to translate their possibly subjective opinions to the broader fan base and what they are witness to. Stoner's statements like the ones that were made Post race Laguna 08, which later had to be retracted and apologized for. Outbursts like the ones witnessed in Pit lane at Catalunya this year and the subsequent rants in the post QP press conference, and the infamous telling off of his team boss in 2006, there are many more and these aren't media speculation but events I've witnessed or read first hand accounts of, I was with an Australian Road Racing Champion the day of Laguna 08 and personally heard him say that Casey was being ridiculous and came across like a very sore loser in the post-race press conference, this perception was not created by the media Gaz, it came from Casey's Mouth-not all of us draw perceptions from spin as you suggest.
Stoner's PR reputation has been created by him and his actions, as Jorge has shown it is easy to beat Rossi and remain liked by the wider world-and I'm talking about the millions who watch and turn up to the events-not just a few officials, for seriously how many of us can get personally involved with Motogp riders. All we can like or dislike is what we see and hear publicly, on track and off. Stoner is not well liked by the majority, and we now know its not from just beating Rossi as many prefer to believe, this is my point, PR is important in the modern world and not just to the few but the many........
I actually can't be bothered looking up all of it but these incidents exist-this is fact. How you and I perceive them is obviously far different, if I have to point out all the slandering that Rossi gets here then you aren't reading the same posts as I am, or in retaining a similar POV to them it may be easy to discount these 'Slanders' as fair comment, just check out Jumkie and Barry's history to name but two and you'll get plenty of examples (as depressing as searching the latter may be!!).
In saying all this, (you and I have done this before!
Disliked by whom ? .... Is the key there
Wah wah wah it never stop form you guys
EASY disliked by everyone who thinks what he did are the actions of a total moron! disliked by whom?......lol wake up son. Stoner is a whiner, a spoilt bratt, a sore loser....and somebody who i have NEVER in my life seen to blame a bad performance or any racing situation on simply "i'm having a bad day" or "he was the better guy on the day".............The teams fault, the tracks fault, the bikes fault, the wrists fault, the lactose intolerance(erm...)....you get the picture.
Just accept that he has a bad rep amongst a good chunk for good reason.
I find it humerous the amount of stoner fanboys defending caseys honour here......he pulls a total arsewipe manouver, and you lot jump on board to defend little caseys honour.....yet these are indefensible actions.
Best you guys can come up with is "they wanted to get a free tow".........oh lol seriously.
Sounds a bit like bs and double standards to me.......boppers?
Here we go again.
ARRC 2008, was that Glen's year (going from memory)?
If I am right he is actually an example of 'mis-perception' as in my experiences with him (including numerous at the NSWRRC of that year and other ASC rounds) was nothing shy of him being pleasant, yet I know a number of 'fans' who felt differently.
Now this may shock but as an aside, I don't fully disagree with your general take on it, just that mine is slightly different for whatever bias one chooses to put on it. The basics of my point (maybe missed, maybe not expressed well) is that all our opinions are based on media and what we see, not what happens in the back end and as such many opinions (perceptions?) are therefore affected by the media.
We have discussed the LS incident numerous times so lets not recap other than for me to again say I was more disappointed by the failure to shake hands than I was by any comment. I said at the time and say again, words are one thing but the failure to shake hands is (IMO) deplorable irrespective of thesaid circumstances and yes, whilst he partially apologised I did not hear an apology for that aspect.
Absolutely correct and actually you re-inforce my point which is that our opinions are indeed shaped by the media.
You will have noted that I have never said that CS' popularity is due to his beating VR as my opinion differs, although I admit that his beating BR has played a part it is a small part (as without beating VR he would not be in the position anyway).
As for PR, we agree (crap, let us not make a habit of this though else people will talk
As for the access to MGP riders, very true but I am one of those few, plus know a number ranging from FIM stewards, to Clerks of Course and various other roles, so what I and they have seen does differ from the tv screens or print media (as examples, many of the Oz riders do large amounts of unrecorded off-track work). But yes, what the officials see is different and at times (Biaggi a great example) sadly so as riders can be left with lasting reputations that may not be fully understood or deserved by the masses.
No need to look them up, I read some, skip others as personally there are people on all sides whom I find tiresome and some whom I find entertaining, plus those that are genuinely interesting. That is what makes this place.
In saying all this, (you and I have done this before!) I realize it is pointless as you and others will never accept Stoners obvious flaws, much like how some accuse a percentage of Rossi fans of behaving- dare I say the 'B' word.......
I will say it for you - Boppers (settle Rob, someone had to say it -
I will admit that I don't see the 'flaws' with Stoner that you see, but that is more our individual interpretation of flaw I suspect as I love the 'take no prisoner' approach and comments from CS (just as I did MD etc of that era). But as I have said numerous times, whilst I don't actually have to big an issue with the comments (looking at the intent) the delivery does at times let him down and as a result the (opinion dependent) sometimes fair comment gets mired or slot with that delivery.
Were he skilled in the VR/JL mode when it comes to media savvy, I suspect that we would then be complaining abut monosylabbic robot responses where the same answer is said time and again. Like it or not at least he makes interesting press (as did Biaggi etc before him) .
But let me ask you (and others if they so choose to respond) why is it that CS (as the example) is pilloried when he is often saying the same basic thing as another who is not so pilloried?
For mine, it is not what he say but how he say it that so upsets.
EDIT: Talps, sorry - saved then remembered.
I do agree that he has a flaw that I am sure we agree on - emotions.
He lets his emotions get in the way at times and (not an excuse by the way) that is often what leads to these incidents that are regrettable and taint the image (whilst regrettable, they are certainly avoidable as well). So yes, I do admit he has flaws and always have.
Happy chatting to ya again Talps
Gaz
Rob, I was sitting back watching your take and obvious bias and whilst some of your points are fair there are others that seem mired with vitriol so I figured what the heck, say a few things to try to discuss the point.
You are wrong here as CS has numerous times blamed himself for accidents and/or poor performances at press conferences (this year and past). Certainly he uses excuses at times, they all do as these guys are so highly strung they cannot admit failure as it would for them seem a weakness and likely affect their perfomances (just as CS did say was the case with the front end issues earlier this year)
Good reason for you ----- maybe, for others, maybe not.
Either way, he has a reputation and life goes on.
Haven't seen the incident - no judgements yet.
Have searched the usual spots but as is usual - nothing found, but then DORNA would simply remove it anyway ............... bastiges
And you said not to use that word .
Boppers as they are called exist for all riders, just the numbers vary.
Gaz
You are wrong here as CS has numerous times blamed himself for accidents and/or poor performances at press conferences (this year and past). Certainly he uses excuses at times, they all do as these guys are so highly strung they cannot admit failure as it would for them seem a weakness and likely affect their perfomances (just as CS did say was the case with the front end issues earlier this year)
Good reason for you ----- maybe, for others, maybe not.
Either way, he has a reputation and life goes on.
Haven't seen the incident - no judgements yet.
Have searched the usual spots but as is usual - nothing found, but then DORNA would simply remove it anyway ............... bastiges
And you said not to use that word .
Boppers as they are called exist for all riders, just the numbers vary.
Gaz
