I just noticed that if Stoner wins at Valencia...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Oct 31 2007, 05:13 AM) [snapback]97772[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
yep anyone... so true anyone could of won on a ducati, dont you mean anyone except loris caparossi?



It was all team play. Very obvious. I think Ducati should be fined for this actually.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Oct 31 2007, 04:13 AM) [snapback]97772[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
yep anyone... so true anyone could of won on a ducati, dont you mean anyone except loris caparossi?
yeah next time please advise stoner to sandbag during the race so he can give the others a chance.

stoner has done what doohan did for half a decade.

and that is not to give any of the other riders a chance. just ride as hard as you can in the first half of the race, build up a gap, and then manage the gap till the finish.... thats just plain smart... it demoralize the opposition for that race and the rest of the season

and it seems hes already got rossi beat for next season already, at least in the mind

funny how you dont mention rossi here ! doohan was way before your time i suspect

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 31 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]97792[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
funny how you dont mention rossi here ! doohan was way before your time i suspect


I think hes only been watching MotoGP this year, hes a virgin gloryhunter

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Evolution @ Oct 31 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]97782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It was all team play. Very obvious. I think Ducati should be fined for this actually.



You are aware that both Stoner and Capi. have their own little "sub-team" within the "Ducati Team" are you not?

Well based on your interpretation of the Team situation, since you say "they knew" and set Stoner up fo the win ..... you should be able to tell us who they have "set-up" to win in 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 31 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]97881[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You are aware that both Stoner and Capi. have their own little "sub-team" within the "Ducati Team" are you not?

Well based on your interpretation of the Team situation, since you say "they knew" and set Stoner up fo the win ..... you should be able to tell us who they have "set-up" to win in 2008

yet in other threads you claim capi and stoner have the same resorses, how can you be so sure when you no claim they have there "own little sub teams"
sounds like a bit of a contradiction here !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 1 2007, 09:18 AM) [snapback]97883[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
yet in other threads you claim capi and stoner have the same resorses, how can you be so sure when you no claim they have there "own little sub teams"
sounds like a bit of a contradiction here !


In the other threads you were referring to what was " under the plastic" as you put it ....... last time I saw .... I think the mechanics etc. were not part of the bike

You really do kid yourself Roger

BarryMachine = epitome of ignorant/blind fan boy?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Nov 1 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]97892[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
BarryMachine = epitome of ignorant/blind fan boy?


Oh so you believe ... it was the tyres .... it was the bike ...... its the secret "Unfair" parts too? ...... why!!?? I mean some of the stuff they were saying affects the interpretation of Westy's ride this year too!! ... he is on Bridgestone is he not?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 31 2007, 11:06 PM) [snapback]97893[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Oh so you believe ... it was the tyres .... it was the bike ...... its the secret "Unfair" parts too? ...... why!!?? I mean some of the stuff they were saying affects the interpretation of Westy's ride this year too!! ... he is on Bridgestone is he not?


Imo, it was even at the start of the season but obviously as Stoner more and more become their best hope then he would get all the secret stuff as you say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 1 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]97894[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Imo, it was even at the start of the season but obviously as Stoner more and more become their best hope then he would get all the secret stuff as you say.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 1 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]97880[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't think Ducati care who rides the victories as long as its them because Loris is an italian rider and to say that stoner got all the effort would be suspect.


well you seem to have two opinions ....


I don't believe Stoner was recieving any "secret stuff" ... that is what you say.... I would say that the team dynamics within Ducati appeared very unbiased .... hence the amicable behaviour of Stoner and Capi. as team mates. I don't believe Capi. is incapable of objecting to any "unfair" team strategy ( he's a good racer and person ), so if Capi. had not expressed any problem with the team strategy then why are the Rossi fans saying there was "special parts" or "team strategies" ???

..... kinda answers itself

it makes sense that you help the guy who is winning not the guy who cannot adapt to the bike but its nothing personal they would do the same for Capirossi and they would be even happier to as hes Italian but it didn't work out this way.

all ducati care about is winning and they will do everything to achieve that, it looks like favourtism but its not really.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 1 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]97899[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
it makes sense that you help the guy who is winning not the guy who cannot adapt to the bike but its nothing personal.

all ducati care about is winning and they will do everything to achieve that, it looks like favourtism but its not really.


Whenever a person is winning ... it sure looks like they are getting the best deal ... yes naturally .... If you are winning ... things are "working" for you.

Capi's situation this season was the worst for anyone .... some upstart came in and started winning ... Capi. was supposed to be the No.1 rider and it wasn't happening ...... but to Capi's favour he reacted in a most decent manner .... maybe he will "tell all" when he leaves Ducati but you know I think the guy genuinely is congratulatory of Stoner ... especially Capi. because only he knows the Duc. so well .... everybody else can speculate but Capi. is the closest to understanding what Stoner did. Stoner had had mediocre finishes in his last year ... his year he got a 1 year chance to prove himself on a full factory ride .... ( Bayliss persuaded Duc. to give him that )( just as Stoner helped get Chaz a ride .... Ducati!! ..... its like " Da Famille' " ) ..... Stoner had to go all out to prove he is worthy of staying in Motgp ..... its a huge motivation .... he certainly rode those first few wins like a scalded cat .... guess thats how you'd fell if Rossi was behind you chasing you down .

Just look at Motegi .... how better to answer the question of "are there team orders?" Capi. got the win .... if any round that Capi. should not have beaten Stoner it was Motegi ( the Championship was to be theirs then if Stoner could get enough points ) ....


It was all a "dicky" situation ..... Capi. was No.1 rider .... Stoner was hired to "fill in" until Melandri got there ( the great all Italian effort it would have been ) .... but Stoner did not ride like a "fill in" did he ....
So naturally Ducati signed Stoner up for longer ( he was now their best ever performer who wouldn't sign him .... then that left Capi. with doubts .... ( although I do believe Ducati would have loved to have him stay )... he still wanted a career which now Duc. can not afford .... and good on him for that, he deserves to get paid the highest amount he can.
Sticky situation it was for sure ...... maybe some day there will be a great Roman opera about it all .... its one of those classic convoluted Roman opera stories thats for sure!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 31 2007, 10:51 PM) [snapback]97890[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
In the other threads you were referring to what was " under the plastic" as you put it ....... last time I saw .... I think the mechanics etc. were not part of the bike

You really do kid yourself Roger

and you really do contradict yourself, but no worrys its all fun and you sure do bring a smile to my face,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 1 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]97942[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
and you really do contradict yourself, but no worrys its all fun and you sure do bring a smile to my face,



In plain ( and full ... uneditted text for context etc. ) show me where Roger

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 1 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]97944[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
In plain ( and full ... uneditted text for context etc. ) show me where Roger

i dont really need to, its pretty obvious to all that read the threads.
one second your saying its all the same for stoner and capi the next you point out how it differs because of the sub teams within the team
then you point your finger at "all rossi fans" when where talking about capi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 1 2007, 11:39 PM) [snapback]97954[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i dont really need to, its pretty obvious to all that read the threads.
one second your saying its all the same for stoner and capi the next you point out how it differs because of the sub teams within the team
then you point your finger at "all rossi fans" when where talking about capi



Aww you're just bending my words to suit yourself Roger.

No, I am saying the bike is the same .... you are calling the Team, and their ability to setup Stoners bike, "the bike" ..... and now saying ...."its the team!!" .. thats why "Stoner won!!", or more to the point why "somebody who shall remain namless" did not win.
Well its getting closer to what I think is reality .... I do think Stoners Team did a very good job ....

Look at the start of the year .... Capi. was Duc.'s no.1 .... So I assume he had a good, well practiced, team behind him, who knew a lot of the bike ..... given Stoner was an unknown quantity, I don't think Duc. would have specifically given Stoner "the best" .... one of the guys had even come over with Stoner from LCR .... but as they progressed .... these guys ( perhaps the NOOBest in the factory pits ) became the most prominent team of 2007.....

"its the bike" .... "its the tyres" ..... "its the yam" ...... "its the TC" ...... " ..... " its the equipment" ....... "its the team!!"

these are all excuses ...... what, or who, are they excuses for?? Who is "clutching" at them as these "straws" are touted?? Hayden fans? Pedrosa Fans? Melandri Fans? Elias ... um ...... The West fan ( well ok he does appear to be at times ) Hopkins Fans? etc. etc. etc. anyone else but " he who shall not be named" fans? ...... in short I get the feeling that they are just efforts to justify why some can't believe "the one they idolise" has not won this year.

Mind you I guess it would be a boring season, if they didn't tout these "reasons" to explain the unthinkable anyway

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 1 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]97956[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Aww you're just bending my words to suit yourself Roger.

No, I am saying the bike is the same .... you are calling the Team, and their ability to setup Stoners bike, "the bike" ..... and now saying ...."its the team!!" .. thats why "Stoner won!!", or more to the point why "somebody who shall remain namless" did not win.
Well its getting closer to what I think is reality .... I do think Stoners Team did a very good job ....

Look at the start of the year .... Capi. was Duc.'s no.1 .... So I assume he had a good, well practiced, team behind him, who knew a lot of the bike ..... given Stoner was an unknown quantity, I don't think Duc. would have specifically given Stoner "the best" .... one of the guys had even come over with Stoner from LCR .... but as they progressed .... these guys ( perhaps the NOOBest in the factory pits ) became the most prominent team of 2007.....

"its the bike" .... "its the tyres" ..... "its the yam" ...... "its the TC" ...... " ..... " its the equipment" ....... "its the team!!"

these are all excuses ...... what, or who, are they excuses for?? Who is "clutching" at them as these "straws" are touted?? Hayden fans? Pedrosa Fans? Melandri Fans? Elias ... um ...... The West fan ( well ok he does appear to be at times ) Hopkins Fans? etc. etc. etc. anyone else but " he who shall not be named" fans? ...... in short I get the feeling that they are just efforts to justify why some can't believe "the one they idolise" has not won this year.

Mind you I guess it would be a boring season, if they didn't tout these "reasons" to explain the unthinkable anyway

it never ceases to amaze me how many posts you find a slightly different way of saying the same thing.
you talk stereotypical ..... ! no mater what the debate is about you always come up with the "rossi fan" statement. you seem to think that anybody with rossi as there fav rider knows nothing about anything else. its got to the stage in the threads now where any rossi fan has to now state how deserving stoner is before they can make a post just to keep you "stoner fans" off there back,. i quote what barros says and somehow this is sour grapes by a "rossi fan"
its becoming very hard to debate anything these days because just about every thread has been turned into the same subject "how ....... wonderful stoner is and how bias rossi fans are" i must say, im loosing ....... interest fast ! bring back the old days when we had intelligent debates.

Lets just agree that all us Rossi fans are right and all the rest of you are wrong. And just leave it at that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 1 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]97967[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
its got to the stage in the threads now where any rossi fan has to now state how deserving stoner is before they can make a post just to keep you "stoner fans" off there back,.


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