If Lorenzo didn't pick his bike up they both would've crashed. There is so many similarities in this incident but because Rossi's role was reversed you refuse to see it.
How to make Yamaha great again.
- Thread starter BarryMachine
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If Lorenzo didn't pick his bike up they both would've crashed. There is so many similarities in this incident but because Rossi's role was reversed you refuse to see it.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
This is the problem Vudu. When Rossi was on the inside, you say Marquez ran into him, and when Rossi was on the outside, you say Marquez ran into him!
For what it's worth, I am not defending Marquez' actions in Argentina. If I had been Rossi I'd have felt aggrieved too, but Rossi wasn't completely blameless in the same way Marquez wasn't completely blameless in Sepang 2015.
So you could also say of Sepang 2015
All this is about is consistency. It;s not about Rossi Vs Marquez. Zarco caused Pedrosa to crash: No penatly. Canet DELIBERATELY caused another rider to crash: No penalty. If Marquez is worthy of a race ban as you are all calling for after Argentina. Then by your very own argument, Rossi was worthy of a race ban in 2015. If you apply the rules consistently that is unarguable.
Exactly.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
When any block pass is performed, the overtaking rider gets the line by being first to the apex. It's then the other rider's responsibility to yield the line. Marquez did not beat Rossi to the apex, he arrived at the same time (if not slightly late).
How can he have arrived at the same time when his bike was exactly where Rossi wanted to put his? By definition he must've been there first if Rossi had to run into him to hit the apex.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Marc took the inside line which was a shorter distance to the apex, yet he never got in front of Rossi prior to the apex. That means Rossi still had line preference. Had Marc arrived sooner, he would have successfully passed initially, but since he was on a line that would've resulted in a slow exit, Rossi very likely would've immediately repassed him. It was just another poor decision by Marquez during weekend that saw many poor decisions by him.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Vudu - to save him time why not just permanently insert "Danski likes this" in your sig?
Not that much different to Pedrosa vs Simoncelli in 2011 for which Simoncelli was penalised imo, except that Simoncelli was the faster rider, had made up 4 seconds, and had passed Dani on the previous corner getting his whole bike in front.
I think any fault lies with MM in this incident who could have waited till they were through the corner given he was so much faster anyway but this was well down on the list of egregiously reckless passes, including several by Rossi and both Jerez last corner passes by the two riders involved; neither was staying on the track without using Gibernau and Lorenzo respectively as berms. In this one both were on respectable lines to make the corner on a clear track but arrived at the same point nearly simultaneously. Hard for me to judge without seeing the incident live given the views of so many since, but it looked to me that Rossi marginally had priority. I see nothing Machiavellian from Rossi or particularly reckless from MM; my late to the party impression is that neither expected the other to be there when the contact was made.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Rossi ceded the corner by leaving the door wide open.
No way around it.
There was enough of a gap for a bike to come through, but Rossi's situational awareness wasn't good enough to pick up on another bike coming through. We saw riders going into those types of gaps at Phillip Island 2015 numerous times to think off the top of my head.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
That's incorrect. The lead rider doesn't have to take a defensive line. If the door is "wide open" as you suggest, Marc should've made it through prior to the apex of the corner. If Marc couldn't do that, the door was not open enough for a safe pass which was Marc's responsibility.
Agree with you 100% in terms of the on track antics, however I do feel that Vale's behaviour post-race has indeed been Machiavellian.
His comments have been deliberately inflammatory and exaggerated with the sole purposes of stirring up the masses and hopefully getting an unwarranted additional punishment imposed on Marc.
I really can't believe that a guy with Vale's experience and enjoyment of a good 'battle' is 'scared' to be on track.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Again I didn't see the incident live in context, but they seemed to be taking fairly different lines through the corner, both of which were entirely feasible as opposed to the Jerez last corner lines taken by each rider in previous incidents involving other opponents. It would seem going by their respective recent lap times MM was much faster, and hence took a faster tighter line (because he could) and Rossi a slower more conservative line, and the two happened to intersect.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Rossi left enough of a gap that another bike could fit through.
MM did nothing wrong. You can debate whether he should have waited on the overtake but Rossi came down on him making contact unavoidable. A 30 second penalty was ludicrous given the other events that transpired and saw no penalties handed out.
Absolutely agree, and exactly why I now dislike Rossi, and as a Stoner fanboy retrospectively blame him rather than just his fans for Stoner's vilification.
Amusing to see Rossi being considered justified and Stoner vilified for pretty much the same thing, complaints about reckless riding, particularly given the very close parallel incident at Jerez 2011.
I am hardly a Rossi apologist, and agree the penalty was ludicrous. But my late formed opinion is that it is likely neither rider expected contact.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I agree neither expected contact, but it does happen.
It's just fascinating how vehemently opposed Rossi is to contact when he is on the receiving end of it, but never had any issue engaging in contact when it benefited the race he was running.
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
Joined Oct 2008
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In Cider
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Vudu, look at this pic carefully, do you see the unorthodox line, sharp and oblique by Rossi and the natural arch of the normal racing line illustrated by everyone else? Misano 2016. Rossi didn’t make the apex as you argue is required buddy. Lorenzo took evasive action because of the sharp unnatural approach by Rossi. If Rossi line was the correct one to negotiate that apex, you would have seen all the riders using that oblique arch. None use that sharp approach, illustrated by this picture because the apex is impossible using this arch. If Lorenzo refused to stand up the bike and collided with Rossi would you have demanded disqualification? Another point you make is that the inside rider must be ahead to have a right to that door, that is incorrect my friend! The inside rider only need be positioned along side to rightfully claim that space and then reasonably make the apex, big difference! You must demand Rossi be penalized retroactively then for Motegi on Lorenzo, Misano on Lorenzo, Jerez on Gibernau (I know) and on Stoner both at Jerez and Laguna. Rossi did not make the apex on neither of those incidents.
The second picture shows Marquez ahead of Rossi, so even if we use your standard for a classic overtaking in this situation, then Marquez had the right of way, Rossi should have conceded the position. If Rossi does the right thing here he would have simply lost the position and wouldn't have crashed. Marquez easily and correct makes the apex because his arch was in fact the natural one fir this turn, it was Rossi who took the tentative wide line to avoid a damp patch. I'm glad we are at least debating the incident and not taking the popular and universally accepted forgone conclusion that Marquez was at fault because he blew the start.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
The second picture shows Marquez ahead of Rossi, so even if we use your standard for a classic overtaking in this situation, then Marquez had the right of way, Rossi should have conceded the position. If Rossi does the right thing here he would have simply lost the position and wouldn't have crashed. Marquez easily and correct makes the apex because his arch was in fact the natural one fir this turn, it was Rossi who took the tentative wide line to avoid a damp patch. I'm glad we are at least debating the incident and not taking the popular and universally accepted forgone conclusion that Marquez was at fault because he blew the start.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
