How to make Yamaha great again.

povol · Apr 18, 2018

synn said:
I guess you were out getting a lobotomy during the tests.
.... off with the rossi straw man argument. All you moles went quietly underground after Qatar only to resurface after the DNF in Argentina.

Testing, hilarious! Did you see the the first race. The top Yamaha finished 7/10ths off the winner. Now I’m no mathmetizer, but that is way less than a 1/10th per lap. In sketchy conditions in Argentina Matquez’s brilliance in those conditions made him a second faster than anyone, not because the Yamaha is a second slower.

povol · Apr 18, 2018

Rossi 100% cannot say he didn’t see Marquez on his inside at Argentina. They were at least even before contact and Rossi made the choice not to concede . He was at least 50% at fault for his crash. He knew Marquez was there and knew how much faster per lap he was, saw him on his inside and refused to be block passed. How many crashes over the years would he have seen if the rider getting passed refused to pick their bike up and concede but just keep the line they are on and intersect with the rider performing the block pass.

michaelm · Apr 18, 2018

povol said:
Rossi 100% cannot say he didn’t see Marquez on his inside at Argentina. They were at least even before contact and Rossi made the choice not to concede . He was at least 50% at fault for his crash. He knew Marquez was there and knew how much faster per lap he was, saw him on his inside and refused to be block passed. How many crashes over the years would he have seen if the rider getting passed refused to pick their bike up and concede but just keep the line they are on and intersect with the rider performing the block pass.

Each must have known where the other was close to when contact occurred, my point was that both chose different lines and I doubt either chose those lines with any expectation of contact.

The problem with these 2 riders, as a non- Rossi hater in J4rn0 said back in 2015, is that Rossi and MM are riders with the same attitude. To me, both have the ingrained expectation that other riders will concede to them

povol · Apr 18, 2018

michaelm said:
Each must have known where the other was close to when contact occurred, my point was that both chose different lines and I doubt either chose those lines with any expectation of contact.

The problem with these 2 riders, as a non- Rossi hater in J4rn0 said back in 2015, is that Rossi and MM are riders with the same attitude. To me, both have the ingrained expectation that other riders will concede to them

If they had been racing for a podium or the win on the last lap I can see not conceding anything, but Rossi knew that Marquez was over a second faster than him but decided to engage that much faster rider . It being Marquez made all he difference in the world. He took an extra wide entrance knowing Marquez would take it . In a way, Marc got suckered into being the fall guy.

RCV600RR · Apr 18, 2018

michaelm said:
Each must have known where the other was close to when contact occurred, my point was that both chose different lines and I doubt either chose those lines with any expectation of contact.

The problem with these 2 riders, as a non- Rossi hater in J4rn0 said back in 2015, is that Rossi and MM are riders with the same attitude. To me, both have the ingrained expectation that other riders will concede to them

Yes. Marquez is Rossi on steroids.

michaelm · Apr 18, 2018

povol said:
Rossi 100% cannot say he didn’t see Marquez on his inside at Argentina. They were at least even before contact and Rossi made the choice not to concede . He was at least 50% at fault for his crash. He knew Marquez was there and knew how much faster per lap he was, saw him on his inside and refused to be block passed. How many crashes over the years would he have seen if the rider getting passed refused to pick their bike up and concede but just keep the line they are on and intersect with the rider performing the block pass.

I don’t disagree, but as Gaz said there is actually not really any obligation for Rossi to concede, and MM was naive if he expected him to do so. But sure Rossi could have easily avoided collision, more easily than MM I would have thought when they were close to the point of contact.

I do doubt the conjecture Rossi lured him into the incident in this the 3rd race of the season, the risk of a collision applies to him as well as proved to be the case.

BarryMachine · Apr 18, 2018

michaelm said:
I do doubt the conjecture Rossi lured him into the incident in this the 3rd race of the season, the risk of a collision applies to him as well as proved to be the case.

I believe that rossi is totally capable of such stupidity. I dont know whether at times its the yellow mist decending and he is incapable of seeing the possible consequences of his actions

Or

Whether it is what many used to refer to as his "racecraft". He is attempting to lure Marquez into an off track "intrigue", totally driven by his own paranoia .... why would his delusional tactics not extend to the track.

rossi has such numbers of supporters that he feels that is the demographic by which he is judged. The problem is those bind judges are too idiotic to pull him up on his actions. Instead they prefer to manipulate facts to suit their judgement that rossi is ...... divine.

So he is morally bancrupt enough to do almost anything. And assume its his divine right.

Jumkie · Apr 30, 2018

michaelm said:
Each must have known where the other was close to when contact occurred, my point was that both chose different lines and I doubt either chose those lines with any expectation of contact.

The problem with these 2 riders, as a non- Rossi hater in J4rn0 said back in 2015, is that Rossi and MM are riders with the same attitude. To me, both have the ingrained expectation that other riders will concede to them

Thing is Mike, avoiding contact also voids Race Direction's supposed ability to take action under the "old" rules, and apparently the "new" ones as well, which Lorenzo pointed out. Not only that, but apparently if the lead rider "leaves the door wide open" he is subject to overtake (Kropo)...though this norm does not apply to Rossi at Argentina.

Special attention to the highlighted words please. Very nicely spin job I'd day:

Jack Miller dived up the inside of Jorge Lorenzo, after the factory Ducati rider left the door WIDE open at Turn 1. Lorenzo, going for a very late apex, found Miller on his line, and was forced to stand the bike up. "Things didn't change so much, no?" the Spaniard grumbled after the race. "If I don't pick up the bike, I crash. So if the rider doesn't impact you or you don't crash, they don't do nothing." David Emmett

...., it was practically Lorenzo's fault. Emmett would not use such suggestive language to scrutinize Rossi "leaving the door wide open" and "grumbling" about it after the race.

I like Miller, and I'm sure Gaz will jump to his rescue, but the point I'm highlighting is that the norms of racing, such as leaving the door wide open seems to only apply to others, not never Rossi.

povol · Jul 6, 2018

It’s being reported that Vinales has forced Forcada out and Bradley Smiths crew chief Esteban Garcia will be his replacement and Rossi will replace Galbasura with Forcada.

RCV600RR · Jul 6, 2018

povol said:
It’s being reported that Vinales has forced Forcada out and Bradley Smiths crew chief Esteban Garcia will be his replacement and Rossi will replace Galbasura with Forcada.

Forcada is very good and worked with Stoner too at LCR. I don't know much about Garcia.

I remember Burgess telling Kropotkin flat out that Forcada was "doing a better job" than Burgess.

yamfan · Jul 7, 2018

If there’s a man who can point Rossi towards the 10th, it’s Ramon Forcada. He took Lorenzo from a scared rookie, to a smooth and machine like multiple champion.
Rossi would be foolish to miss out on the chance to work with him, he’s a Yamaha genius.

Holypuck · Jul 8, 2018

I don't think Forcada would change Rossi's situation much, as well as I don't think a new chief would help Vinales.

What needs to be taken into account in this Yamaha situation is the mentality of a Japanese Racing Team.

Unlike European teams, Japanese teams tend not to care at all about what the riders and their chiefs think and say about the bike. They keep working through the development project that they have planned and started until it's finished, even when this means having one (or more) seasons in which their bike is not competitive. Honda went through the exact same thing in 2015.

Rossi and Vinales don't need a new chief, nor do they need to send """hidden""" messages to Yamaha using the press, they simply need to understand their team is chasing a specific project (which specific project, I obviously do not know) and that they won't go off rails for them.

I understand this sounds illogical to us westerns but if any of you ever dealed with Japanese people for work reasons I'm sure you will 200% get what I mean.

Keshav · Jul 8, 2018

Holypuck said:
I don't think Forcada would change Rossi's situation much, as well as I don't think a new chief would help Vinales.

What needs to be taken into account in this Yamaha situation is the mentality of a Japanese Racing Team.

Unlike European teams, Japanese teams tend not to care at all about what the riders and their chiefs think and say about the bike. They keep working through the development project that they have planned and started until it's finished, even when this means having one (or more) seasons in which their bike is not competitive. Honda went through the exact same thing in 2015.

Rossi and Vinales don't need a new chief, nor do they need to send """hidden""" messages to Yamaha using the press, they simply need to understand their team is chasing a specific project (which specific project, I obviously do not know) and that they won't go off rails for them.

I understand this sounds illogical to us westerns but if any of you ever dealed with Japanese people for work reasons I'm sure you will 200% get what I mean.

Puck - thought we’d lost you. Glad you’re still here.

Holypuck · Jul 8, 2018

Keshav said:
Puck - thought we’d lost you. Glad you’re still here.

Never meant to leave the forum for good. I only needed some time off as on a specific day this place felt like a war zone

Hope you enjoyed Assen! The race looked rather entertaining on my TV....

How to make Yamaha great again.

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