Holy sh*t, wher's eject button?!

Jumkie · Mar 4, 2011

Arabi, if i thought about it, then read it on ur post, can i get some credit for the thought? Haha

Certainly, and i admit, i made the same error beforehand, as I think I also said Casey on a Honda would have rocked for years. I had blocked out the memory of the DP212V so much that i too had filed the memory under '.... to forget'. But as i thot about it again i remember and realized Casey would hav had to compete on a .... bike at HRC. Infact, i'll go a step further. If he'd been Danis teammate under the AP/DP212V days, it mite hav .... his career more than it did Nicky. I say this cuz Nicky made it out alive cuz most sane people like the guy, he had just wond a title, and has a rep for work ethic, as oppose to Casey who many erroneously believed the opposite, and may have ended in him packing. Is this a stretch? And keep in mind, i think Casey mite hav faired better in results than Nicky; but without the 07 title, he may hav become another Randy DePuniet.

BHarvey · Mar 4, 2011

Funny that in 06' Hayden was riding the mule and testing every weekend, while Dani got to choose his direction more or less.

Seems like HRC wouldn't listen to either rider for bike development direction and ended up phoning the tooth fairy....

Jumkie · Mar 4, 2011

BHarvey said:
Seems like HRC wouldn't listen to either rider for bike development direction and ended up phoning the tooth fairy....

I sorta disagree about the listening part but agree about calling the toothfairy (if the toothfairy's name is Luvio). They were listening to both, the problem is, what Hayden reported worked was either ignored or simply didn't work for a midget. And they probably listened to Pedro intently, but he just was wrong. Sure they started to improve midway last season, but who do we have to thank for that? Pedro? I don't think so.

Talpa · Mar 4, 2011

Arrabbiata1 said:
You've obviously forgotten what a pile of ..... the '07 212v actually was. Even Pedrosa was unable to exploit a bike that was unquestionably designed around him and him alone. HRC only became truly competitive again midway through last season. This is perfect timing for Casey and a very shrewd

move.

yes indeed, great point. The boners will tell you that Stoner would have still smacked them all on it......

povol · Mar 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
I sorta disagree about the listening part but agree about calling the toothfairy (if the toothfairy's name is Luvio). They were listening to both, the problem is, what Hayden reported worked was either ignored or simply didn't work for a midget. And they probably listened to Pedro intently, but he just was wrong. Sure they started to improve midway last season, but who do we have to thank for that? Pedro? I don't think so.

Who then

Dovi?

Suppo?

Puig

Jumkie · Mar 4, 2011

Suppo whipping up on engineers maybe. Or whipping up on management to whip up on engineers. Mayb Dovi. It wouldnt b a stretch. Hes good enuf to give direction to an engineeeing crew who previously had been under orders to worship Pedro.

BHarvey · Mar 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
Suppo whipping up on engineers maybe. Or whipping up on management to whip up on engineers. Mayb Dovi. It wouldnt b a stretch. Hes good enuf to give direction to an engineeeing crew who previously had been under orders to worship Pedro.

That Pedro worship just didn't work. Now on any given day when the bike was right, he could disappear out front, but so can Rossi, Stoner and Lorenzo.

Seems to show that until another rider does this there are only 4 aliens. Stoner just qualifies as a 'double agent alien' since he could do it on that POS Duck.

Ianonne seems pretty similar and I bet he'll be one to watch.

Keshav · Mar 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
Suppo whipping up on engineers maybe. Or whipping up on management to whip up on engineers. Mayb Dovi. It wouldnt b a stretch. Hes good enuf to give direction to an engineeeing crew who previously had been under orders to worship Pedro.

Could be the changes were made based on recommendations from all of them

- or... none of them. Maybe Honda got it right on their own. They sure as

hell haven't released any statements to the contrary.

Gaz · Mar 4, 2011

Talpa said:
yes indeed, great point. The boners will tell you that Stoner would have still smacked them all on it......

Sorry Talps, couldn't resist as we need to disagree from time to time

Kinda.

I personally have no doubt that Stoner would have in all likelihood produced better performances on the early Pedrhonda that did the man for whom the bike was designed. I say this as it is my opinion that one thing CS can do above many others (and one that I do feel the majority of people recognise) is that he can ride an imperfect machine exceedingly fast and in most cases, faster than most others.

Whilst it is true that MiniPuig (should that perhaps be MicroPuig) is quick, he has shown a definite reticence to push the imperfect machine and this for me is an indicator that CS would have produced better results (said in terms of races won).

But, I do not feel that CS would have dominated or even won the WC as during the corresponding time the Yamaha was sorted and become the finer weapon of the times. Given that this Yamahe then had two extrordinarily talented riders on board I think it fair to say that they would have continued to dominate irrespective of who the Honda rider was of the day, although I do suspect they may have peeked over their shoulders a few more times.

However, as I have said earlier I do think that CS would likely have won more races than MiniPuig but that would simply have taken a race from MiniPuig and not from the overall Yamaha count (ie. CS would have won more races in that year than he did on the Ducati but the remaining Honda riders would have one less).

All up, it a moot point anyway as CS did NOT ride that era Honda but discussion is fun

Gaz

BarryMachine · Mar 4, 2011

I still think back to the constant question that has arisen, since Stoner was on the Duc, "why have the others Ducati riders gone so poorly on it?"

The only logical answer is, and was, that the Duc is not an easy bike to ride.

The other bikes Honda, Yamaha never showed that discrepency at all, therefore one can assume Stoner would have done, back in 07, on the Honda as he has done today.

You have to remember that there was absolutely no truth to the rumor that the Ducati was the best bike, it was always just a non-easily discounted theory that the Boppers could use as an excuse. Indeed several test rides by non-biased reporters seemed stumped at how Stoner won on the thing.

The only way the fairtytale could be dispelled for the Boppers was if Rossi rode the Ducati and did not at least mirror Stoners abilities on it ....... which he has not, hence the talk of the Ducati or any of the equipment used in that package, being at some advantage have been disproved with Rossi's rides on it.

BHarvey · Mar 5, 2011

Well, since they have identified many areas to fix for Rossi, it will not be the same bike, so no comparison is possible.

When I raced WERA in the 90's I got a few rides on friends bikes and after a couple of laps I would come in and say

"How in the hell do you ride that bike"!?

Set-up is very important to most but Stoner seems to have a wider range of what will work and if he is having set-up problems you know the bike is .....

Kropotkin · Mar 5, 2011

BHarvey said:
Ianonne seems pretty similar and I bet he'll be one to watch.

No doubting Iannone's talent, but his temperament is a real question. That team is going to suffer multiple major meltdowns this season. It's going to get ugly.

BHarvey · Mar 5, 2011

I was not aware Ianonne was a pms'er.

Kropotkin · Mar 5, 2011

BHarvey said:
I was not aware Ianonne was a pms'er.

If it was just him, it wouldn't be a problem. But it's the entire team. Emotional rollercoaster is the term that will be used to describe that team this year.

stiefel · Mar 5, 2011

Gaz said:
Sorry Talps, couldn't resist as we need to disagree from time to time

Kinda.

I personally have no doubt that Stoner would have in all likelihood produced better performances on the early Pedrhonda that did the man for whom the bike was designed. I say this as it is my opinion that one thing CS can do above many others (and one that I do feel the majority of people recognise) is that he can ride an imperfect machine exceedingly fast and in most cases, faster than most others.

Whilst it is true that MiniPuig (should that perhaps be MicroPuig) is quick, he has shown a definite reticence to push the imperfect machine and this for me is an indicator that CS would have produced better results (said in terms of races won).

But, I do not feel that CS would have dominated or even won the WC as during the corresponding time the Yamaha was sorted and become the finer weapon of the times. Given that this Yamahe then had two extrordinarily talented riders on board I think it fair to say that they would have continued to dominate irrespective of who the Honda rider was of the day, although I do suspect they may have peeked over their shoulders a few more times.

However, as I have said earlier I do think that CS would likely have won more races than MiniPuig but that would simply have taken a race from MiniPuig and not from the overall Yamaha count (ie. CS would have won more races in that year than he did on the Ducati but the remaining Honda riders would have one less).

All up, it a moot point anyway as CS did NOT ride that era Honda but discussion is fun

Gaz

uuuhhhh..... in 2007?

Tom · Mar 5, 2011

Dani finished 2nd overall on the 07 Honda, the only person who beat him was Stoner. If you imagine Stoner was riding that Honda do you think he would have beaten Dani? That would suggest he'd have been champ anyway!! I know there is a lot more to it than that, but i think he would have done pretty well.

cliche guevara · Mar 5, 2011

in the end the question of how stoner would have performed on a honda comes down to whether you think the honda or the ducati were the better bike.

and from what i've seen i got the impression that the honda (especially since they've stepped up their game engine wise) was probably the best bike in 2007 (or at least pedros honda)

Gaz · Mar 5, 2011

stiefel said:
uuuhhhh..... in 2007?

Nope, talking 2008 onwards (ie. the years that CS did not win).

In 2008/2009/2010 the Yamaha teams were competitive if not almost dominant (they did win the title all three years)

Gaz

stiefel · Mar 5, 2011

cliché guevara said:
in the end the question of how stoner would have performed on a honda comes down to whether you think the honda or the ducati were the better bike.

and from what i've seen i got the impression that the honda (especially since they've stepped up their game engine wise) was probably the best bike in 2007 (or at least pedros honda)

I would say, the only year the Ducati was on somewhat on equal footing to the Honda's and Yamaha's over the course of a season was in 2007. Other than that, to my eye it looks like the advantage has always been shifting from the one Japanese factory to the other within any given season, with the Ducati usually close but not quite there. I believe you'll see the same thing this season: Honda look strong now, but Yamaha will catch up soon enough.

stiefel · Mar 5, 2011

Gaz said:
Nope, talking 2008 onwards (ie. the years that CS did not win).

In 2008/2009/2010 the Yamaha teams were competitive if not almost dominant (they did win the title all three years)

Gaz

Ah, I see. I was already wondering if someone would actually rate Colin Edwards as extraordinarily talented in Motogp, hehe.

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