Hoffman Sacked! - Confirmed

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Sep 18 2007, 12:53 AM) [snapback]91125[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Subtlety never was my strong point

And another point, if being a former champ is a reason to be on the grid, then KRJR should still be on the grid vale4607? Should still be circling around half a lap behind everyone and wondering why everyone's gone home by the time he finishes the race?

When did I say being a former champ was a pre-requisite for being on the grid? I am looking forward to next year because the class of riders within the championship should be lifted up another notch. 9-10 world champions would hopefully mean a higher quality of rider. This is not always the case, but many of these guys know what it takes to run at the front week in week out, lead championships and close them out. 2009 should be even better.

This is what I want to see. I am wanting an increased level of competition. You guys seem to be content to watch a guy that has very little chance of cracking the top 7 ride around and collect his pay check. The expectations for Barros are set low, and he can't even meet those.

Mentioning KRJR is pointless, we have seen what the Roberts bike isn't capable of this year. We've also seen what a Ducati in the right hands is capable of. Can you give me a reason why Barros should stay?

So we've seen what the Yamaha can do, therefore Edwards, Tamada and Guintoli should go. We've seen what the Honda can do, therefore Nakano, Melandri, Hayden, Checa and Elias should go. We've seen what the Ducati can do, therefore Capirossi, Barros and Hoffmann should go. We can see what the Kawasaki is capable of, but neither rider is delivering it.

So what this years grid should look like, by order of vale4607.
Yamaha: Rossi
Ducati: Stoner
Honda: Pedrosa
Kawasaki: Retire from MotoGP.
Suzuki: Both of Suzuki's riders are almost equal, therefore they can both stay.
I present a five rider grid ladies and gentlemen, a foolproof plan for improving MotoGP!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Sep 18 2007, 01:49 AM) [snapback]91140[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So we've seen what the Yamaha can do, therefore Edwards, Tamada and Guintoli should go. We've seen what the Honda can do, therefore Nakano, Melandri, Hayden, Checa and Elias should go. We've seen what the Ducati can do, therefore Capirossi, Barros and Hoffmann should go. We can see what the Kawasaki is capable of, but neither rider is delivering it.

So what this years grid should look like, by order of vale4607.
Yamaha: Rossi
Ducati: Stoner
Honda: Pedrosa
Kawasaki: Retire from MotoGP.
Suzuki: Both of Suzuki's riders are almost equal, therefore they can both stay.
I present a five rider grid ladies and gentlemen, a foolproof plan for improving MotoGP!

This is exactly what I wrote. Amazing interpretation. You don't seem to be able to give a good reason why Barros should retain his seat other than to make up the numbers. Wow, D'antin should have you running his business, I mean it makes perfect sense. A foolproof plan would be to do what you've always done and expect different results. Israeliracer has discovered a MotoGP time warp where Barros is world champion and Valentino is changing tyres. Is that a fairly accurate assessment of what you wrote? Didn't think so.

Why has Barros not secured a ride for next year? I'm guessing his tenth place in the championship is a pretty good reason. Can you give a reason why he should keep his ride?

Everyone on your list (sorry my list, I forgot I wrote it) with the exception of Hayden, Melandri and Elias can go. There seem to be a few on there that haven't secured rides for next year. Wonder why.

By the way why do think that Yamaha is bringing Lorenzo on board? Why have Ducati recruited Melandri? Why have Kawasaki employed Hopkins? Because they want to win, not make up the numbers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vale4607 @ Sep 17 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]91145[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why has Barros not secured a ride for next year? I'm guessing his tenth place in the championship is a pretty good reason.

Everyone on your list (sorry my list, I forgot I wrote it) with the exception of Hayden, Melandri and Elias can go. There seem to be a few on there that haven't secured rides for next year. Wonder why.

Hayden's only one place up of Barros, on a factory ride. Elias is 3 places back of him. His best finish was 9th place, last year.

Not saying they don't belong on the grid, but your criteria are rather arbitrary.

Well pointed out Matt, Elias does seem like a strange addition. Been on the grid about the same time as Hoffmann, achieved about as much.

Barros should stay because out of the privateer machinery riders, because this year he's the best. Numbers don't lie

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mattsteg @ Sep 18 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]91148[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hayden's only one place up of Barros, on a factory ride. Elias is 3 places back of him. His best finish was 9th place, last year.

Not saying they don't belong on the grid, but your criteria are rather arbitrary.

I never brought the championship points into the argument. Israeli Racer mentioned the points and I don't think beating a broke leg, a guy who has ridden 7 races on the Kawasaki and Mr Bin It is a great achievement for a 20 year veteran. That was never the reason I wanted to see Barros gone.

10th place, top privateer, wow. I hope D'antin is aiming low for next season, thats exactly what he'll get.

By the way Elias is there for my entertainment, pure and simple. Elias also has the chance to beat Barros to 10th. If that happens then what? I guess we'll have to enter the time warp.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Sep 17 2007, 06:16 PM) [snapback]91149[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Elias does seem like a strange addition. Been on the grid about the same time as Hoffmann, achieved about as much.


Elías has done MUCH more than Hoffman!

Apart from the obvious difference in results (Elías has actually won a race!), style (Elías is fun to watch) there's a huge commitment difference, 99% of people with Elías wounds during the last 2 GPs would be on a hospital bed, while he's been racing. Hoffman pulled out of a race for lack of motivation.

Anyway from the current lot, I only see as lacking obvious talent, Hoffman.

From the rest I have no real reason to sack them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ThePhorest @ Sep 16 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]91039[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The guy who knocked him off and put a hole in his hand (in a very amateurish fashion) is now taking his seat. I can totally understand why he's frustrated, but theres no excuse for behavior like that.


Thanks for reminding us.

I almost completely forgot the latest Hoffman development is surely in response to D'Antin hiring Guintoli.

Can this drama get anymore soap opera-ish. The opening scene has Hoffman laid up in the hospital and D'Antin are out signing the guy who effectively ended his tenure at the team.

Oh D'Antin. You made your bed now lie in it.

As far as the Barros arguments:

Satellite teams don't really need a relatively expensive "development" type rider. Barros isn't that bad, but his crowning achievement this season was relegating Stoner to 4th during an extremely tense time during the championship hunt at Ducati's home track. If you're going to keep a savvy old vet around you'd better make sure he knows how to lose with class.

Barros missed his big opportunity to secure his seat. They may as well put a young cheap kid in the saddle and see if they hit paydirt.

I think Hoffmann is a ......' prick!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Sep 17 2007, 06:56 AM) [snapback]91110[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
vale4607, did Hoffmann steal your girlfriend or something?



Well, is Hoffmann your boyfriend or something?


A guy who comes into the pit for "lack of motivation" is probably the most chicken-.... thing I've ever heard from anybody in motorsports. And you trying to defend him under the guise of it being an inappropriate comment to say he's a "......' prick" is in the same vein. Obviously you, like Hoffmann, don’t value or understand the integrity of sport.

I could write an essay on what maintaining the integrity of the sport means, but I think the meaning would be lost if you can’t understand why his actions were so outrageous. Calling him a ......’ prick is a colloquial statement to describe his actions, which is a reflection of his personal principles as a participant of an organized sport.


Not only did he lose his job but also the respect of most everybody around him, including us spectators of the sport who value integrity!

The guy is a ......' prick!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 17 2007, 10:24 PM) [snapback]91183[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think Hoffmann is a ......' prick!
Well, is Hoffmann your boyfriend or something?
A guy who comes into the pit for "lack of motivation" is probably the most chicken-.... thing I've ever heard from anybody in motorsports. And you trying to defend him under the guise of it being an inappropriate comment to say he's a "......' prick" is in the same vein. Obviously you, like Hoffmann, don’t value or understand the integrity of sport.

I could write an essay on what maintaining the integrity of the sport means, but I think the meaning would be lost if you can’t understand why his actions were so outrageous. Calling him a ......’ prick is a colloquial statement to describe his actions, which is a reflection of his personal principles as a participant of an organized sport.
Not only did he lose his job but also the respect of most everybody around him, including us spectators of the sport who value integrity!

The guy is a ......' prick!

very insightful post jumkie
the germans will probably stop showing motogp on tv now there token has been give the boot, just like they did when rasmussen was pulled out of le tour de france

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 18 2007, 06:17 AM) [snapback]91172[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Satellite teams don't really need a relatively expensive "development" type rider. Barros isn't that bad, but his crowning achievement this season was relegating Stoner to 4th during an extremely tense time during the championship hunt at Ducati's home track. If you're going to keep a savvy old vet around you'd better make sure he knows how to lose with class.

Barros missed his big opportunity to secure his seat. They may as well put a young cheap kid in the saddle and see if they hit paydirt.

Exactly. This squad should be about developing rider talent. Barros has reached the end of his career and seems to be achieving less and less as he goes on. I just don't see the benefit for D'antin or MotoGP in keeping Barros in the seat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 18 2007, 06:17 AM) [snapback]91172[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think Hoffmann is a ......' prick!

If i quote this does it mean the moderators will ban me or you? I've moved on from Hofmann being a prick, he is now a ...... bag.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vale4607 @ Sep 17 2007, 06:28 PM) [snapback]91207[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

If i quote this does it mean the moderators will ban me or you? I've moved on from Hofmann being a prick, he is now a ...... bag.

That is .

Look, I don't personally know the guy, but those were his words, he quit. He gave up in dishonor. I don't have anything personal against him. As a matter of fact I saw an interview about his career and thought he seemed to be a nice guy. But this incident has shown his hand and I can't really say I am impressed. Sure we all have frustrations as human beings. We have trial and tribulations, and even scores to settle with people who have wronged us. But I think he damaged himself much more than he is aware of with this ill-fated move to throw in the towel. Now think about all those affected that honestly dedicate their lives to the sport as well as those that have the responsibility to maintain the sport’s integrity. Think about those lowly mechanics or technicians, who don't really get much money or glory and certainly are not in the lime light that toiled to put his bike in order to ride that weekend. Or the truck drivers who drove long hours while he undoubtedly was asleep in the motorhome to get him to his destination, I could go on and on about all the low paid people who surround a team and dedicate time, sacrifice family, all for the passion of motorsport. Think about all the people that were betrayed by his lack of intestinal fortitude by giving up and simply ride back into the pit because he was having a bad day.


I have a contact with a gentleman who is involved with the US Army top fuel and motorcycle drag race teams for the NHRA. They have a program called YES (Youth Educational Services) which offer opportunities to kids to job-shadow the various careers in motorsport racing. I personally go out twice a year and take a bunch of teenage kids to the NHRA drag races to expose them to career opportunities in racing. One overwhelming theme that all those involved talk about, from the clean-up crews to the hospitality cooks, mechanics, to the drivers, ect. ect., all of them use words like: dedication, integrity, and determination toward a TEAM effort--all for one purpose. They make a point of saying all are integral parts of a team and all pledge to do their best toward the success of the whole. The rider/driver is but one in a sea of people working together. Imagine for a minute, one of Hoffmann’s mechanics saying, well I don't think I'm going to wrench on the bike for you and take the extra time to fine tune a better set up because, well you’re probably not gonna win anyway, so I’m just gonna go to sleep and call it a day. Could you imagine? That mechanic would be crucified and chastised, and deservedly so.


When Hoffman took the grid and start to the race he had committed to the effort. He needed to finish the race and try his best not just as a professional but also as part of a team that had dedicated themselves to the race. He also committed to the other racers on that grid that they would all have to fight for positions, even if they were the last ones. He violated the integrity of competition and by quitting eroded the spirit of contest.

Would you hire him if your were the one footing the bill to field a bike knowing that on any given race he might not try as hard because he didn’t feel like it that day?

Excellent summation Jumkie. A TRUE professional would keep going and finish the job even if it was to come last. He's acted like a total amateur and isn't needed in the sport. Give it to someone who's going to behave in a professional manner no matter what the circumstances.

RJ

a+ summary of what is expected in todays society.

There is also the issue of sponsorship.

These teams can only survive in Motgp because of huge investment from outside organisations who pay a huge amount of money for their products to be seen on the bikes and riders.

Not only does this action embarrass the team and class itself as a loser and a non finisher but it also tars the sponsors with the same brush.

IMO Luis did the only thing he could probably do to save face and lets hope Chaz will give it 100%

he now has a chance to prove that he is worth more than a Ducati Test rider

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 18 2007, 05:16 AM) [snapback]91215[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
That is .

Look, I don't personally know the guy, but those were his words, he quit. He gave up in dishonor. I don't have anything personal against him. As a matter of fact I saw an interview about his career and thought he seemed to be a nice guy. But this incident has shown his hand and I can't really say I am impressed. Sure we all have frustrations as human beings. We have trial and tribulations, and even scores to settle with people who have wronged us. But I think he damaged himself much more than he is aware of with this ill-fated move to throw in the towel. Now think about all those affected that honestly dedicate their lives to the sport as well as those that have the responsibility to maintain the sport’s integrity. Think about those lowly mechanics or technicians, who don't really get much money or glory and certainly are not in the lime light that toiled to put his bike in order to ride that weekend. Or the truck drivers who drove long hours while he undoubtedly was asleep in the motorhome to get him to his destination, I could go on and on about all the low paid people who surround a team and dedicate time, sacrifice family, all for the passion of motorsport. Think about all the people that were betrayed by his lack of intestinal fortitude by giving up and simply ride back into the pit because he was having a bad day.
I have a contact with a gentleman who is involved with the US Army top fuel and motorcycle drag race teams for the NHRA. They have a program called YES (Youth Educational Services) which offer opportunities to kids to job-shadow the various careers in motorsport racing. I personally go out twice a year and take a bunch of teenage kids to the NHRA drag races to expose them to career opportunities in racing. One overwhelming theme that all those involved talk about, from the clean-up crews to the hospitality cooks, mechanics, to the drivers, ect. ect., all of them use words like: dedication, integrity, and determination toward a TEAM effort--all for one purpose. They make a point of saying all are integral parts of a team and all pledge to do their best toward the success of the whole. The rider/driver is but one in a sea of people working together. Imagine for a minute, one of Hoffmann’s mechanics saying, well I don't think I'm going to wrench on the bike for you and take the extra time to fine tune a better set up because, well you’re probably not gonna win anyway, so I’m just gonna go to sleep and call it a day. Could you imagine? That mechanic would be crucified and chastised, and deservedly so.
When Hoffman took the grid and start to the race he had committed to the effort. He needed to finish the race and try his best not just as a professional but also as part of a team that had dedicated themselves to the race. He also committed to the other racers on that grid that they would all have to fight for positions, even if they were the last ones. He violated the integrity of competition and by quitting eroded the spirit of contest.

Would you hire him if your were the one footing the bill to field a bike knowing that on any given race he might not try as hard because he didn’t feel like it that day?

spot on jumkie

So is Chaz going to be the replacement rider at motegi??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Sep 18 2007, 12:10 AM) [snapback]91192[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
very insightful post jumkie
the germans will probably stop showing motogp on tv now there token has been give the boot, just like they did when rasmussen was pulled out of le tour de france



I can assure you that this is not gonna happen. In fact, only very few people here seemed to watch MotoGP because of the Hoff since he has been anything but a popular rider even in his home country. There might not be too many MotoGP fans in Germany, but most of those who are, are because they love the sports and not because of a certain rider who happens to share their nationality.

By the way, what's the deal with that Rasmussen comparison. Last time i checked, Rasmussen was from Denmark.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Roadrunner @ Sep 18 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]91327[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I can assure you that this is not gonna happen. In fact, only very few people here seemed to watch MotoGP because of the Hoff since he has been anything but a popular rider even in his home country. There might not be too many MotoGP fans in Germany, but most of those who are, are because they love the sports and not because of a certain rider who happens to share their nationality.

By the way, what's the deal with that Rasmussen comparison. Last time i checked, Rasmussen was from Denmark.

dont no mate,you tell me. does seem a bit weird but,
according to eurosport ,german tv through the dummy out the pram when rasmussen was "called back" and refused to show anymore of the tour.
just so you no, i was joking about german tv and the hoff. i have nothing against the germans , infact i will be over there visiting family at the end of the month, and we won the war...oops did i say that out load

Pretty sure the Germans called it off when a German member of T.Mobile was busted (sinkewicz?) and the team withdrew..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Sep 18 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]91339[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Pretty sure the Germans called it off when a German member of T.Mobile was busted (sinkewicz?) and the team withdrew..

mabe thats it mate, so many get booted of it's hard to keep track