Help needed for info about SNS and Bridgestone switch.

Gaz · Apr 22, 2016

paparazzo said:
This 'SNS' ........ is just another exaggeration created by this forum to undermine Valentino and his achievements. This is the reason why OP can not find any concrete information not even from the great Google. I watched the race and remember it like yesterday. Elias was wired, riding out of his skin, and out dragged VR in a photo finish with Kenny right behind them. He could have easily been 3rd and no one would be discussing this SNS .........

Nope.

Chatter of SNS tyres as they are called has been ongoing for years and actually precedes your great Rossi (...., it actually may even pre-date the internet as we know it today)

Evidence is there that they exist, Michelin have confirmed as much with their late compound deliveries throughout the years including photographs posted in this forum.

Disbelieve all you wish, they existed during the tyre war years as even the articles linked quote words such as 'tyres made specifically for Pedrosa' which indicates that they were custom tyres.

Sure, by all means turn a blind eye if one wishes but the facts remain that evidence indicates that SNS tyres existed (Edwards was quoted as saying that he could not ride Valentino's tyres' etc)

paparazzo · Apr 22, 2016

I'm not denying they existed, but the 'advantages' given are greatly exaggerated by your disciples here. Posters here make as if all you needed to win was bolt on SNS's and the wins will come. Very comical. The fact there little information in the internet tells you they were not as important and not as available as you and yours here claim. You can fool the new to the sport fans with SNS ........ being some sort of panacea worth seconds/lap but you aren't fooling any fans who've been around for decades, but feel free to carry on with your nonsense....

Gaz · Apr 22, 2016

paparazzo said:
I'm not denying they existed, but the 'advantages' given are greatly exaggerated by your disciples here. Posters here make as if all you needed to win was bolt on SNS's and the wins will come. Very comical. The fact there little information in the internet tells you they were not as important and not as available as you and yours here claim. You can fool the new to the sport fans with SNS ........ being some sort of panacea worth seconds/lap but you aren't fooling any fans who've been around for decades, but feel free to carry on with your nonsense....

Personally I believe that there can be little doubt that the SNS (if they suited) provided a rider with a weapon that perhaps allowed them a better performance than may otherwise have been possible, and yes, the Elias win is a great example of that.

However, irrespective of having tyres made specifically for you or not, you must still ride the race and manage it in order to be able to achieve the best results possible or that the tyres allow.

An interesting comparison I find is the total disregarding of the possible advantages of having a tyre manufactured to your very requirements as being bunkum in terms of the possible improved results, whilst many at the same time will say that the Ducati power allowed it to achieve rsults of which it was not worthy.

michaelm · Apr 22, 2016

paparazzo said:
I'm not denying they existed, but the 'advantages' given are greatly exaggerated by your disciples here. Posters here make as if all you needed to win was bolt on SNS's and the wins will come. Very comical. The fact there little information in the internet tells you they were not as important and not as available as you and yours here claim. You can fool the new to the sport fans with SNS ........ being some sort of panacea worth seconds/lap but you aren't fooling any fans who've been around for decades, but feel free to carry on with your nonsense....

It cuts both ways. I personally don't think they gave him a significant advantage over his major rivals, but as I have also said Catch 22 applied and you had to have the tyres to be a rival, as Toni Elias' only race win in a season where he finished more than 15 seconds behind in many races rather demonstrates.

Again, you and that entirely separate poster are very happy to demean 2 riders in MM and JL who have 5/9 world titles between them and actually accuse them of stealing JL's last one, so you will have to forgive me for finding your outrage about Rossi being demeaned hypocritical.

Jumkie · Apr 22, 2016

Rossi said he would quit the sport if he didn't get the Bridgestone. You can fool yourself all you want that tires didn't play a significant advantage for Rossi. But you'll need to explain his logic for wanting to go home if he didn’t get his way with tires. Rossi was never threatening to quit over tires when he was enjoying SNS.

There is no mistaking the fact SNS were THEE significant factor in all of Rossi's "titles" from 2001-2005. That this is debatable is mind-boggling, especially given the underlying message repeated and repeated every interview where riders talk about tire choice being the overwhelming factor that impact their result.

Paraphrasing:

Qatar: Lorenzo, choosing the right tire resulted in my win. Rossi, I may have chose the wrong tire.

Argentina: Marquez, im glad we got to use the tire choice rather than the safety tire, it helped me win. Rossi, I couldn't be as fast on the tires on my second bike.

Austin: Marquez, i chose the right tires and managed the race. Rossi, I crashed because these tires don't allow mistakes.

Jerez: I guarantee they'll talk about how the tire choice made the difference.

You guys hear this over and over and over and over, and you're still gonna sit there and think, hey, maybe custom tires didn't really make a difference? Holy ....!

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

tps7c · Apr 22, 2016

Jumkie said:
Rossi said he would quit the sport if he didn't get the Bridgestone. You can fool yourself all you want that tires didn't play a significant advantage for Rossi. But you'll need to explain his logic for wanting to go home if he didn’t get his way with tires. Rossi was never threatening to quit over tires when he was enjoying SNS.

There is no mistaking the fact SNS were THEE significant factor in all of Rossi's "titles" from 2001-2005. That this is debatable is mind-boggling, especially given the underlying message repeated and repeated every interview where riders talk about tire choice being the overwhelming factor that impact their result.

Paraphrasing:

Qatar: Lorenzo, choosing the right tire resulted in my win. Rossi, I may have chose the wrong tire.

Argentina: Marquez, im glad we got to use the tire choice rather than the safety tire, it helped me win. Rossi, I couldn't be as fast on the tires on my second bike.

Austin: Marquez, i chose the right tires and managed the race. Rossi, I crashed because these tires don't allow mistakes.

Jerez: I guarantee they'll talk about how the tire choice made the difference.

You guys hear this over and over and over and over, and you're still gonna sit there and think, hey, maybe custom tires didn't really make a difference? Holy ....!

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

Based on that logic, than everyone's titles are based on tires. Lorenzo won last year because of his tires, and all of Marc's titles are because of his tires.

As they say, it's gotta be the shoes!

michaelm · Apr 22, 2016

tps7c said:
Based on that logic, than everyone's titles are based on tires. Lorenzo won last year because of his tires, and all of Marc's titles are because of his tires.

As they say, it's gotta be the shoes!

Absolutely correct, and also absolutely no problem as long as everyone has access to tyres which suit them. Look up contemporary reports as to why Kawasaki (permanently) and Suzuki (temporarily) left the sport, and to what Ducati attributed their diminishing competitiveness, after a control tyre made to suit Hondas and Yamahas was brought in.

I actually had no problem with Rossi getting the Bridgestones in 2008 per se and was possibly the only Stoner fan who supported Jumkie's Rossi fan mate Roger in the voluminous multiple tyre wars threads at the time. What has subsequently emerged about how he managed to get them which I concede will never be proven is another matter however, as is if they actually took away the tyre which best suited the Ducati, which I also regard as unproven.

Gaz · Apr 22, 2016

tps7c said:
Based on that logic, than everyone's titles are based on tires. Lorenzo won last year because of his tires, and all of Marc's titles are because of his tires.

As they say, it's gotta be the shoes!

Absolutely.

Without tyres that suit the rider/bike combination then quite simply that rider/bike combination cannot be competitive.

It has often been said that the most important part of racing is getting the bike setup for the tyres thus, the tyres are more critical than the bike and given that both allow the rider to produce, the tyres are more important than the rider (debateable I know).

The issue that most people have (and Mike has touched on it) is that for a great many years, the tyres were allocated based on preferences of the manufacturer as to who would get what compound of tyre etc. Logic would say that the more powerful the rider for that manufacturer, then the more likely the chances that they would receive superior tyres of a choice of superior tyres.

This is not new in racing and is not the sole domain of Rossi as it had occurred before his appearance on the scene.

What it can and does do however is allow discussion surrounding 'what if he never had that tyre advantage' and given it is ALL opinions, we never know the answer, but just as I said elsewhere, he and all others had to ride them and finish on them.

tps7c · Apr 23, 2016

Gaz and Mike, I think what a lot of the Rossi brethren on this forum feel is that you guys are diminishing the rider portion of the total equation. And I'm not just saying this regarding Rossi, I mean any of the top riders. It's their ability to control the machine, tires, track condition, tire management, etc, that makes a champion. It's the amazing skills of the rider to be able to harness all the component of the win.

The way you guys make it sound is that these tires are the major factor, and I would say to that - put a robotic man on the bike then.

MigsAngel · Apr 23, 2016

tps7c said:
The way you guys make it sound is that these tires are the major factor, and I would say to that - put a robotic man on the bike then.

That didnt work either...if it had then Pedrosa would have been multi year MotoGP world champion by now....

Cool Blue · Apr 23, 2016

MigsAngel said:
That didnt work either...if it had then Pedrosa would have been multi year MotoGP world champion by now....

I don't necessarily agree but, damn witty none the less.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

michaelm · Apr 23, 2016

MigsAngel said:
That didnt work either...if it had then Pedrosa would have been multi year MotoGP world champion by now....

They couldn't get the mechanical asimo to work, or weren't allowed to use it.

Gaz · Apr 23, 2016

MigsAngel said:
That didnt work either...if it had then Pedrosa would have been multi year MotoGP world champion by now....

They tried but given the bike was built for Pedrosa (allegedly), Asimo was to big to fit

Gaz · Apr 23, 2016

tps7c said:
Gaz and Mike, I think what a lot of the Rossi brethren on this forum feel is that you guys are diminishing the rider portion of the total equation. And I'm not just saying this regarding Rossi, I mean any of the top riders. It's their ability to control the machine, tires, track condition, tire management, etc, that makes a champion. It's the amazing skills of the rider to be able to harness all the component of the win.

Nope, but without the right tyres the riders cannot display the skills that set them apart, quite simple really.

If tyres were of no or very little consequence, why was one rider so adament that he had to switch from Michelin to Bridgestone in order to be competitive?

If tyres are not that critical then why does it matter that Michelin have balls up a few times this year and why are tyres one of the first thing mentioned by riders?

tps7c said:
The way you guys make it sound is that these tires are the major factor, and I would say to that - put a robotic man on the bike then.

There is ............. his name is Lorenzo

Jumkie · May 3, 2016

povol said:
A little something i dug up from 2007

With his world championship goal edging closer, Casey Stoner is urging MotoGP officials to resist the latest attempt by superstar rival Valentino Rossi to change the tyre regulations.
With six wins out of 11 races, Stoner believes the new 2007 tyre rules have created a level playing field and that Rossi is now searching for excuses.
In the wake of his crushing defeat at the hands of Stoner and Ducati at the US Grand Prix, Rossi has complained the tyre rules are spoiling the championship show.
Rossi was a distant fourth in California and slipped 44 points behind Stoner with seven races remaining.
Using French Michelin tyres, Rossi's Yamaha has won three races this season while Stoner, with Bridgestone tyres from Japan, has won six times.
"At the beginning of the season Valentino and the others were all for the new tyre rules," said Stoner who earlier finished fifth in Germany because of tyre problems.
"And as soon as they don't win the rule is crap, but when they win the rule is nothing.
"I've had my bad races this year, especially in Germany, and I'm not complaining about the tyre rule and that it is unfair.
"They can moan and whinge about it as much as they want but it shows they have had such an advantage in the past and this season they cannot bring a tyre in just for the race.
"It's a matter of relying on the company that supports you to do a good job."
Rossi said after his defeat in America he would consider proposing changes to the tyre regulations.
Under 2007 restrictions, Michelin are unable to bring in hand-made tyres overnight from their factory and all riders are restricted to 17 nominated rear tyres for each race weekend.
"This rule is not good and we need more tyres," Rossi said.
"The problem is for the show because at the end it is the tyre that decides the race."
Until this year Michelin had dominated MotoGP competition with Rossi winning five world championships and 61 races.
However Rossi's famed crew chief, the Adelaide-based engineer Jerry Burgess with 12 world championships to his credit, agrees with Stoner.
"The tyre rule has not been the main reason for Valentino not winning races this season, Burgess said.
"I like the rule, it's equal for everyone and think it should stay."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moto GP banned SNS after 2006. After the Elias incident, more and more riders were screaming for equality after they saw what difference it made. Rossi went along with banning them because he didnt want the entire field on them, remember back then, satellite bikes were winning races. Roll forward to 2007, Stoner is kicking Rossi's ... on Bridgestones and he isnt liking it one bit , because, you know, it was ....... up the show. The show was Rossi winning and Dorna agreed, forcing Bridgestone to supply Rossi in 2008 against their will. Hows that for painting a picture J4rno, sounds less and less conspiratorial all the time huh

Smoking gun.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

danski · May 3, 2016

Smoking bloody pot I reckon!!! Conspiracy woohoo.com , welcome to lalaland ....

Jumkie · May 3, 2016

Daniboy said:
Smoking bloody pot I reckon!!! Conspiracy woohoo.com , welcome to lalaland ....

Do you think Case Stoner was making up the "conspiracy" that Rossi was actively trying to influence the tire regulations 'again'? I didn’t write that article nor did I force Stoner to say those words.

You seem like a guy who has watched his fair share of racing, frankly it seems you're unaware that the world is not quite what it seems, that competition like life has an underbelly. You must look at it as a foot race and Dorna is just the impartial referee in charge of pointing out who won. That is "lalaland".

With his world championship goal edging closer, Casey Stoner is urging MotoGP officials to resist the latest attempt by superstar rival Valentino Rossi to change the tyre regulations.

"They can moan and whinge about it as much as they want but it shows they have had such an advantage in the past and this season they cannot bring a tyre in just for the race.

"This rule is not good and we need more tyres," Rossi said.
"The problem is for the show because at the end it is the tyre that decides the race."

So let's recap Daniboy.

1. The article does not mince its words about superstar Rossi trying to influence the tire regulations again "latest attempt".

2. Stoner confirms what we've been telling you about the tire advantage Rossi had for years under the SNS era!

3. Rossi himself confirms tires decide races. "...because at the end it is the tyre that decides the race."

What more do you want? Oh yeah, an official press release that Dorna admits it is a corrupt enity orchestrating self-serving influence the proceedings. What do you suggest I Google? Perhaps key words: I Carmelo admit, I have given preferential treatment to Rossi, and have used my influence and power to persuade/coerce/ horsetrade with vendors, series providers, and rulebook for the purpose of making myself very extremely rich under the guise of competition because I recognized early that Rossi sells TV money.

xx CURVE xx · May 3, 2016

"Hey Look!! A dead Horse!!" ... "lets beat the .... out of it!!!"

Jumkie · May 3, 2016

xx CURVE xx said:
"Hey Look!! A dead Horse!!" ... "lets beat the .... out of it!!!"

I wish the horse were dead, but it seems to always sprout yellow legs despite indication to the contrary brother.

Listen to this crazy ...., the bikes in cycling are now being scanned for "mechanical doping". No ......... They're even subjecting bikes to MRIs. Sound crazy? Imagine if Rossi's tires were scanned for being SNS-doping between 2001-2006. You think his bike would pass inspection? Hahaha

JPSLotus · May 3, 2016

Daniboy said:
Smoking bloody pot I reckon!!! Conspiracy woohoo.com , welcome to lalaland ....

Too bad you have zero ability to think critically, and think the world just operates on the up and up, in spite of zero evidence to support any of this. Sports that are global, but European based all have huge integrity/corruption issues; FIFA, IOC, and F1 are prime examples of this. That's no shock though since European standards have generally been lacking in everything. Took the USA to get the ball rolling quite literally on Sepp Blatter since all Europe did was sit there twiddling it's thumbs. Bernie Ecclestone paid a bribe to get out of a bribery trial. Only in Europe. GP is no different.

Help needed for info about SNS and Bridgestone switch.

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