Hayden to WSBK (Again)?

#22 said:

Been done to death I know in the past, but Jumkie's favourite son Nicky Hayden was at the WSBK round in Laguna Seca last weekend, again fuelling rumours he could move for 2016 (With Yamaha?)

I mean he isn't even a midfielder on that POS Honda, he's a backmarker now and it won't get better next year, especially with the new tyres etc coming in and Honda are going to say a big .... you to any customer teams while they get their factory bikes sorted. I hope for his sake he realises 13 years in the top flight has been a good ride, and he can probably get back to winning in WSBK.

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Well ... if his talent is up to the level that some on here say it is and he can land the Yamaha ride then I expect he can win the title in his WSBK rookie year....a la Spies...

I would think we know something more substantial of Nicky's and many others future at Indy....

The production RCV is a dead end bike. Frankly, the fact that Honda have yet to make any significant improvements to the bike is a disgrace. I'd love to see most of the guys riding around post 10th place in GP move to SBK. I'd rather watch any SBK event then watch the MotoGP race for 10th position.

Nicky should bail now before he's too old or too injured. SBK equipment has improved, the series is doing fine and I suspect the money for top riders is on par with being a back marker in GP. There are several GP riders who'd be better served in a vibrant SBK series.

As for Yamaha, that's a little suspect. Like BMW, their SBK effort has been sporadic at best. Ducati spent a few years getting the Panigale up to speed but stuck with the process and the series unlike Yam and BMW who both packed up and left when they couldn't win. Look at what Kawasaki has done in the last few years. Nicky should have taken the Ducati offer of several years ago and made the move. Yamaha will not be a competitive package out of the blocks should they return.

Excellent post Levi, my thoughts exactly.

(Hopefully Kesh won't jump all over me and rant that you're post meeting my approval shows that I think I'm the boss. haha)

When Ben Spies won, and did so in spectacular fashion I may add, Yamaha had been developing the bike. They had a decent sponsorship and had a revelation with their engine package. It was no coincidence in my opinion that this derivative of Yamaha won the WSBK and GP, and was runner up in the AMA that same year. In the AMA, Suzuki under Mladin had so fully dominated the series that when Josh Hayes on a Yamaha, which took its cues from the Wsbk spec, won 7 victories to Mladin's 10, it was a momentous occasion (before that it was virtually all Suzuki all the time). But as Levi says, today Yamaha like Honda in the AMA does not exist in WSBK, so starting from scratch would be a bit ambitious to expect Nicky to win, even if he did take the SBK ride (which I also thought was a golden opportunity when Ducati offered it). I'm laughing still that Ducati traded Nicky for Cal, only for him to talk .... about the machine day 1, and then Vinalezed out of his contract. Migs is as usual, but even with his impaired vision, I would think he might even concede the challenge too great in the first year of a machine. The SBK boys are not slow, and I suspect, as I have contended for years here on the forum, that given the same machinery as the top 4 in GP that we would have some revealing results. Look at Crazy Joe for example, he used to mix it up with the "greatest ever rookie" AKA Marquez, but on the .... version of the Ducati, he couldn't crack the top ten, miles away from Marquez. Some still think Marquez would have won on the satellite RCV even though suddenly his poor form earlier this year was blamed on a slightly inferior RCV. If we are to believe these experts, which many have, then we must accept that the slightest issue that doens't suit the rider is reflected on the track (after all, this was/is the argument) and so on the LCR or Gresini, I doubt the 93 would have won under the then rookie rule. But that of course was managed by the league, and as they say, the rest is 'altered' history. Enter the Open Class Ducati, and Iannone was up there at the beginning of the season, until now it seems again the parity has shifted away. And before the conspiracy boo birds come out, les I remind everyone that Kropo himself proposed that the RCV was eclipsed by the GP15 at some point this season, the point I'm trying to make is that 'parity' is on occasion acknowledged to exist (albeit when convenient).

WSBK, the Kwaker seems to be the RCV of GP (well, my estimation of the RCV at least), that is, the bike to be on. The Panigale has had it moments under Chaz, most notably at Laguna this weekend. But it showed its progress last year and earlier this season too. Though I can see Arrabi's smug smile now, consider JRea is a better rider than Davies. Chaz had found ways to crash when good results were ahead of him, in fact I called him a crasher (ah the irony, right Arrabi?) I dare not wonder what results the Penisgale would have had in Jrea's hands.

Jumkie said:

I dare not wonder what results the Penisgale would have had in Jrea's hands.

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Hard to say, but I can guarantee that Levi would immediately sell his Monster in defiant protest and denunciation of the Marque.

#22 said:

I hope to god he doesn't go to Honda, so it really only leaves Ducati and Kawasaki.

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You just made my hair stand on end. GOD, Please NO! I argued with Arrabi that Jrea was a (in Levi's word) a "buffoon" on wheels, but I think he had some merit in saying the CBR was a POS, no not RCV ...., I mean real ..... (sorry gentz, I really can't help myself, its my style of posting on the forum, beating dead horses and such--my apologies to Kesh in fear of recriminations). The Ducati has the most wins at Laguna for example, and Chaz's double reminded me that Wsbk used to be a Ducati-driven series. As I said on the Wsbk thread, this was my first time since the late 90's I had not attended a world racing event at Seca, and I was reminded yesterday of memories from all the great Ducati riders throughout the years, and frankly Chaz isn't one of them...yet. Tangent: Chaz reminds me more of Xaus, talented and likable, but not a Bayliss by any stretch. Or like Laconi, who during the most entrenched (arguably) era of Ducati, just being on the machine basically entitled you to a title run. Its why I like Toesland so much, apart from being the prettiest (save Nicky of course) two-wheeled racer, he also nabbed a title not just on the Ducati (during a Ducati era) but also on the Hannspree Honda. But the Pata Honda of today is a right mess. Nicky going to that would be a disaster, similar to what he is on now actually.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Hard to say, but I can guarantee that Levi would immediately sell his Monster in defiant protest and denunciation of the Marque.

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No sir! My open bigotry for Jonny is certainly well documented. However, I must be man enough to admit that his performance no longer supports those opinions. He's a changed man and is quite deserving of his success this season. Watching him yesterday take a patient second in race 2 is proof enough for even the biggest hater.

I don't think we'll see him move from Kawi. I think Chaz is solid a Ducati. Davide is another story. Fast but reckless. I don't personally think Nicky has any real support at Ducati. Fond admiration I'm sure but no desire to have him back in the fold.

levigarrett said:

He's a changed man and is quite deserving of his success this season. Watching him yesterday take a patient second in race 2 is proof enough for even the biggest hater.

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Actually 3rd. But who's keeping track. "Patient", we can forgive his couple of dive bombs running wide, lets consider also Sykes is his teammate, though the old JRea would have blocked passed or used the other rider as a berm. I digress. Anyway, I also think Jrea is thinking championship. Being on the podium while being ahead on points in the same order as the US national debt, was not going to be the end of the world. Even he understands that.

Jumkie said:

You just made my hair stand on end. GOD, Please NO! I argued with Arrabi that Jrea was a (in Levi's word) a "buffoon" on wheels, but I think he had some merit in saying the CBR was a POS, no not RCV ...., I mean real ..... (sorry gentz, I really can't help myself, its my style of posting on the forum, beating dead horses and such--my apologies to Kesh in fear of recriminations). The Ducati has the most wins at Laguna for example, and Chaz's double reminded me that Wsbk used to be a Ducati-driven series. As I said on the Wsbk thread, this was my first time since the late 90's I had not attended a world racing event at Seca, and I was reminded yesterday of memories from all the great Ducati riders throughout the years, and frankly Chaz isn't one of them...yet. Tangent: Chaz reminds me more of Xaus, talented and likable, but not a Bayliss by any stretch. Or like Laconi, who during the most entrenched (arguably) era of Ducati, just being on the machine basically entitled you to a title run. Its why I like Toesland so much, apart from being the prettiest (save Nicky of course) two-wheeled racer, he also nabbed a title not just on the Ducati (during a Ducati era) but also on the Hannspree Honda. But the Pata Honda of today is a right mess. Nicky going to that would be a disaster, similar to what he is on now actually.

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The Ten Kate Hondas were rocket ships in a straight line particularly in supersport (remember Foret's '02 title?). So much so they were initially rumoured to have been awarded the contract to tune and maintain the CBR600 plants for Moto2. Geritt and Ronald ran a tight ship and had a reputation of founding the best tuning shop in the Netherlands. I don't follow WSBk closely enough to speculate why their machinery is currently so dog slow.

To me Toseland's tenacity was demonstrated on the Ducati because that team under Tardozzi was so blatantly biased towards Laconi. I did respect him immensely after that huge crash in the opener at Qatar that almost broke his back failed to break his spirit.

You wouldn't be so fond of Toseland if you had seen 'Crash' (as opposed to simply seeing him crash), and his new band are an abortion. Judging by his recent appearances as part of the BT Sport team, the guy has become a complete narcissist post retirement.

Hayden on a Yamaha would be strange knowing is love for American Honda. One thing no one's talked about, perhaps I missed it, but has Honda mentioned their intentions to race the Honda RC213V-S or will the stick with the CBR?

IMO, I only see Hayden racing WSBK or even MotoAmerica on a Ducati or a 'competitive' Honda.

HEISMAN said:

Hayden on a Yamaha would be strange knowing is love for American Honda. One thing no one's talked about, perhaps I missed it, but has Honda mentioned their intentions to race the Honda RC213V-S or will the stick with the CBR?

IMO, I only see Hayden racing WSBK or even MotoAmerica on a Ducati or a 'competitive' Honda.

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Do you remember the FP1? Patronas had to make a hundred or so "road" versions to qualify for FIM standards to run in WSBK. I highly doubt Honda would consider running their RCV-RS, though les I forget, some might argue Honda did something similar with the RC51/VTR1K entry.

I've heard rumors that Honda intend to rejoin the AMA, now under MotoAmerica given the exit of DMG, which if you recall was the very reason Honda America left the series. But frankly I don't think Honda is at all interested in WSBK. Can they field a competitive entry specifically designed for WSBK? Yes. (Again, some might argue they have in the past). Does it really look like they give two ..... about the "junior" series? No. Why? Because they are getting their money's worth in marketing and development in GP. Its a marketing wet dream: Honda, Marquez, and Dorna in the pocket to boot. The AMA is another animal, unlike WSBK, it offers I think, at least in the marketing minds, more cents for the ever important American market.

HEISMAN said:

Hayden on a Yamaha would be strange knowing is love for American Honda. One thing no one's talked about, perhaps I missed it, but has Honda mentioned their intentions to race the Honda RC213V-S or will the stick with the CBR?

IMO, I only see Hayden racing WSBK or even MotoAmerica on a Ducati or a 'competitive' Honda.

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I don't think think they can run anything other than the CBR1K. The RCV doesn't have the production numbers I suspect. Could be wrong.....anyone?

#22 said:

I had to paste this comment from the crash.net article as I think it's a great post.



I hear he was hanging out in the Ducati garage a lot at Guna, so maybe he's talking about replacing the Gug..

Also just a thought, Nicky's wrist is still a concern from what I hear and although a WSBK is heavier. With less grippy tyres and steel brakes, this would surely be easier for him?

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I think it would take something fairly significant for Ducati to fire their Roman peer. I'm not saying it won't happen but to fire an Italian rider for a washed up, broken down American back marker? That would certainly make for an interesting story. I imagine the Italian moto press would erupt.

#22 said:

:bounce:

But, Shame on you Arrab for not following WSBK! Basically the Fireblade hasn't had any decent development since the late nougties by my understanding and is essentially almost a 10 year old bike. Lord knows why it's doing so well on the roads still though.



It's been mentioned, but as Jumkie says Honda don't seem interested in developing anything for the superbike. I guess the MotoGP bike branding (I don't say success because it's the worst bike out there this yr and has only won two races ) sells enough road bikes for them so why bother?

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They develop the road racing version, even though John McGuinness' Fireblade is based on a 2009 model it's stripped and rebuilt with new updated components and software each year. Plus I think the road version is an official "factory" bike whereas the WSBK version is factory supported.

Jumkie said:

Do you remember the FP1? Patronas had to make a hundred or so "road" versions to qualify for FIM standards to run in WSBK. I highly doubt Honda would consider running their RCV-RS, though les I forget, some might argue Honda did something similar with the RC51/VTR1K entry.

I've heard rumors that Honda intend to rejoin the AMA, now under MotoAmerica given the exit of DMG, which if you recall was the very reason Honda America left the series. But frankly I don't think Honda is at all interested in WSBK. Can they field a competitive entry specifically designed for WSBK? Yes. (Again, some might argue they have in the past). Does it really look like they give two ..... about the "junior" series? No. Why? Because they are getting their money's worth in marketing and development in GP. Its a marketing wet dream: Honda, Marquez, and Dorna in the pocket to boot. The AMA is another animal, unlike WSBK, it offers I think, at least in the marketing minds, more cents for the ever important American market.

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According to a member of Hondas BSB team I spoke to at Oulton Park a couple of years ago HRC's top brass want to win Suzuka, Senior TT and MotoGP in that order, they don't really care for WSBK or any of the national series, they're happy if they win them but if they don't it's not a disaster.