Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Yeah yeah, would have looked a lot less impressive if Taddy Okada got the V4 instead of useless Criville.

There were of the order of 5 identical Hondas on the grid at one stage, and HRC were in the habit of giving out the settings Mick developed to other Honda riders which didn’t best please Mick, particularly when they were given to Criville who on later evidence seemed to rather need them. He wasn’t doing too badly against a couple of riders you may have heard of called Rainey and Schwantz in 1992 prior to the leg injury, and also beat Max Biaggi, on the beating of whom in his early glory years your boy’s early reputation substantially rests. No whining about hard racing of which I am aware ever, win or lose, either.

8 premier class title wins by Australian riders, 6 of them on brutal 500 2 strokes and 1 on a Ducati, and 3 in other classes, btw. Even you should have heard of Kel Carruthers, who went on to a respected role on the pit side of things.
 
There were of the order of 5 identical Hondas on the grid at one stage, and HRC wet in the habit of giving out the settings Mick developed to other Honda riders which didn’t best please Mick, particularly when they were given to Criville who on later evidence seemed to rather need them. He wasn’t doing too badly against a couple of riders you may have heard of called Rainey and Schwantz in 1992 prior to the leg injury, and also beat Max Biaggi, on the beating of whom in his early glory years your boy’s reputation substantially rests. No whining about hard racing of which I am aware ever, win or lose, either.

8 premier class title wins by Australian riders, 6 of them on brutal 600 2 strokes and 1 on a Ducati, and 3 in other classes, btw. Even you should have heard of Kel Carruthers, who went on to a respected role on the pit side of things.

Your rant doesn't address what I was saying.
Okada was runner up to Doohan on an underpowered V Twin.

He would have smoked your boy with the V4.
 
DRAMA NEWS:

Vito Ippolito (president of FIM) released an interview to an Italian magazine where he stated that both riders have their faults, but that Rossi went way over the line with his words after the race.


But I guess to the yellow boys he is an ......., too, who doesn't know .... about racing, either?


Sorry guys, I am a Latin. I love some drama, I can't help it.
 
DRAMA NEWS:

Vito Ippolito (president of FIM) released an interview to an Italian magazine where he stated that both riders have their faults, but that Rossi went way over the line with his words after the race.


But I guess to the yellow boys he is an ......., too, who doesn't know .... about racing, either?


Sorry guys, I am a Latin. I love some drama, I can't help it.


You must be trying to be obtuse on purpose because no one said anything about people actually involved in the sport having an opinion on this topic. Not Ago, Not Ippolito, Not Ezpeleta, Not Colin Edwards, Not Neil Hodgeson, not James Toseland and so on.

The only comments made were about the armchair experts of the forum giving advise on how to overtake etc.

I dropped a deuce this morning that has more credibility than them.
 
Your rant doesn't address what I was saying.
Okada was runner up to Doohan on an underpowered V Twin.

He would have smoked your boy with the V4.

Not imo, although OKada was good.

Not much of a comeback after displaying your general ignorance, as is often the case, of GP bike racing history other than that pertaining to your boy anyway, and an obvious quick google after being found out hardly redresses the balance. Mick’s titles were mostly hardly close affairs, and he was dominating the field to such an extent in 1992 he still nearly won. The 500s had been tamed, significantly by Mick and crew, by the time your boy got on one, and going by his reaction last week-end and difficulties at Ducati he would have run away crying had he ever taken on Mick in his pomp on a 500 2 - stroke back when they were brutal devices.
 
Last edited:
They always tried to hobble Doohan, like when they changed the fuel regs and made the 500's softer, he still blitzed them.
 
You must be trying to be obtuse on purpose because no one said anything about people actually involved in the sport having an opinion on this topic. Not Ago, Not Ippolito, Not Ezpeleta, Not Colin Edwards, Not Neil Hodgeson, not James Toseland and so on.

The only comments made were about the armchair experts of the forum giving advise on how to overtake etc.

I dropped a deuce this morning that has more credibility than them.


This is a forum mate. It's supposed to be a place where us, armchair experts (I am one, can't deny it) chill, talk some ...., make some jokes, give each other our "amateur" points of view and so on.

That being said, here in Italy Ago is getting SO much .... from SO many people for just saying that he doesn't think MM should get more punishments in addition to the 3 punishments he got in 40 minutes in Argentina. That is why I wrote that line on the yellow boys cause they'll surely be mad at Ippolito now. I just don't like that. Drama is fun, I am the first to admit it, I kinda don't give a .... about Rossi nor Marquez but a huge rivalry is a fun/entertaining thing for us public after all.

This specific rivalry tho has been taken too far, almost to the point where it's unhealthy for the sport, and my 2 cents are that it's been Rossi with his "communication skills" that made it so. You shouldn't be allowed to say anything you want when hundreds of millions of people follow you like some kind of Saint. He made some very, very heavy statements in the post race and I am glad an important figure like the FIM president was smart enough to notice and "brave" enough to openly say it. That is all.
 
Not imo, although OKada was good.

Not much of a comeback after displaying your general ignorance, as is often the case, of GP bike racing history other than that pertaining to your boy anyway, and an obvious quick google after being found out hardly redresses the balance. Mick’s titles were mostly hardly close affairs, and he was dominating the field to such an extent in 1992 he still nearly won. The 500s had been tamed, significantly by Mick and crew, by the time your boy got on one, and going by his reaction last week-end and difficulties at Ducati he would have run away crying had he ever taken on Mick in his pomp on a 500 stroke back when they were brutal devices.

Try again, Mitchell. And don't shift the goalposts this time.
There was no Google when I was cheering Okada on.

The 500s might have been tamed, but they were still nasty beasts. Would be interesting to see how many elbow down miracle saves MM would be doing if he were on even the last iteration of the 500s or the RC211V, both immensely powerful and had less computing power than a $20 Casio calculator watch, with your hands for traction control and your right foot for wheelie control. Incidentally, both, machines Rossi won decisively on.

It's not a coincidence that MM crashes lesser and lesser the more Honda improves their electronics.
 
There were of the order of 5 identical Hondas on the grid at one stage, and HRC were in the habit of giving out the settings Mick developed to other Honda riders which didn’t best please Mick, particularly when they were given to Criville who on later evidence seemed to rather need them. He wasn’t doing too badly against a couple of riders you may have heard of called Rainey and Schwantz in 1992 prior to the leg injury, and also beat Max Biaggi, on the beating of whom in his early glory years your boy’s early reputation substantially rests. No whining about hard racing of which I am aware ever, win or lose, either.

8 premier class title wins by Australian riders, 6 of them on brutal 500 2 strokes and 1 on a Ducati, and 3 in other classes, btw. Even you should have heard of Kel Carruthers, who went on to a respected role on the pit side of things.

You forgot Burgess who is the only one to manage to get a no-taĺent ŕider like rossi all of his motogp titles. Burgess is infinitely ( +1 ) better than whoever rossi has now.
 
DRAMA NEWS:

Vito Ippolito (president of FIM) released an interview to an Italian magazine where he stated that both riders have their faults, but that Rossi went way over the line with his words after the race.


But I guess to the yellow boys he is an ......., too, who doesn't know .... about racing, either?


Sorry guys, I am a Latin. I love some drama, I can't help it.

Ha. I have visions of what will happen when rossi finally retires now .... imagine this .....

"rossi THE OPERA" :D:D
 
Ha! I have been wondering who synn reminds me of .... at first I thought it was talps or someone ..... but I have it ....

angry-kid
 
Didn't the whole field bar miller get a penalty on the start line.
So that would be 4 for marc in my reckoning.
 
Try again, Mitchell. And don't shift the goalposts this time.
There was no Google when I was cheering Okada on.

The 500s might have been tamed, but they were still nasty beasts. Would be interesting to see how many elbow down miracle saves MM would be doing if he were on even the last iteration of the 500s or the RC211V, both immensely powerful and had less computing power than a $20 Casio calculator watch, with your hands for traction control and your right foot for wheelie control. Incidentally, both, machines Rossi won decisively on.

It's not a coincidence that MM crashes lesser and lesser the more Honda improves their electronics.

I think i go back a bit further than you so i well remember the 500's,in my opinion Marquez is one of the most talented riders i've ever seen in gp's and i doubt he wouldn't have coped without electronics,just my humble opinion but i've seen them all since the Sheene/Roberts era and talent is talent and he has it in spades whether you are a Rossi fan or not,i think he crashed a lot last season because he pushes to find the limit at the right moment, ie in practice.
 
I should have known it would be a notorious event after my phone blew up from friends asking if I had “watched the race yet!!??!!” Guarding me from spoiling the event, despite offering scintillating cryptic hints about the race, inevitably providing little clues, but damn, this was way more than I expected. I barely got around to watch yesterday, which in hindsight was an eternity, one day removed from this race that undoubtedly will be seared in memory.

I suppose I’ll start from the beginning, which in this case, ‘is the end’, pun intended in more ways than one, but for starters, 60+ pages in, ah man, I’ll go back and read when I have the time (which lately is no-time). I’m sure some of the takes have already been said, but here is my offering.

Hi-Jacked

Jack Miller should file a police report, because he got raced JACKED! Speaking of the “authorities”, what an absolute cluster of comedy filled armature hour, race officials running around like chicken little-..... with their heads cut off to solve the sky was falling when in fact a problem did NOT actually exist. Ultimately the tail waged the dog, so let us walk this dog back a bit and examine the faulty decsion that the start of the race must be delayed for “safety”. If I’ve learned one thing from following this sport it is that when the organizer’s start throwing the word “safety” it usually means something else, most often it means they need to adjust for something of a rolling-rulebook to appease someone totally unrelated to safety. The race was declared a “wet race”; flag-to-flag rules apply, this hasn’t changed, there was no need to rubbish the establish protocols, so why did they do it? Are there not established rules in place for proper pit lane exiting procedures and bike swaps? Of course there are, and the riders are required to follow them or suffer the consequences of ‘penalties’ (a word being thrown around quite a bit to leverage agendas). The first wrong decision was to declare there was a problem and therefore it required a ‘delay’ of start; there was in fact no ‘act-of-god’ condition that was a safety concern dangerous enough to delay the start on time! The delay effectively jacked Jack and his team’s assertive decision to contest the race based on their technical choices! Is this not the spirit of competition, live and die by your decisions on technical matters and reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of those choices? There is no special dispensation for a mob that has made the wrong choice to be given a reprieve at the 11th hour. The lights go out, ready or not!

The delay undoubtedly changed the winner of the race (more on this later). It was an artificial outcome based on a decision not made by riders in consultation with their own team of technicians (for which supposedly competition is designed) but rather a cluster of incompetent officials with various motives appeasing and bailing-out a throng of riders who had made the wrong decision.

It should be noted that Jack Miller, thee person with the most clear grievance, has handled this situation with elegance and grace, qualities which had previously not been readily associated with him; sharply contrasted with the utter shameless and shameful drama that has ensued, particularly by the supposed statesman of the category, Rossi, including the gutless media that enables this disgraceful GP culture, and the Cult of Bopperism that is a fascinating case study of religious unhinged delusion (more on that later).

MotoFOX (pronounced MotoFucks)

The sport’s media (bloggers, commentators, writers, and supposed “journalist” and prominent voices) have once again collectively demonstrated they are effectively a DORNA sponsored institution based on the politics of popularity. When they’re not engaging in newspeak, they are parroting the company talking points, disseminating these for consumption aimed at naïve yellow sheep; though this time there seems to be an element of competition amongst these “reporters”, the game seems to be: who can out-do their hyperbole of declaring Marc Marquez the Evil Doer of Argentina and simultaneously commiserating Rossi’s victim pandering. Perhaps one of the most memorable and astute assertions made after the Sepang 2015 debacle, was the point made by Marc Marquez regarding Rossi’s ‘weaponization of the media’.

After watching the Argentine race, naturally I listened to the post race reactions, and there, along with the routine interviews was a video for a special press conference, what is this? Why do we need a special press conference? There were several racing incidents during the race; did they all get a special press conference? This was the literal inverse of the ‘canceled press conference of Valencia 2015’--one designed to shield Rossi (2015) this one designed to serve as a megaphone for Rossi. (Any chance the pre-event press conferences will be canceled for Austin to shield Marquez from the precipitous scrutiny that never was for Rossi?) Why was there a need for a special press conference? This reminded me of the infamous pre-event press conference of Sepang 15, where the media were ‘hi-jacked’ and employed as a conduit of Rossi’s deranged conspiracy theory, except in the Sepang case, the media were relatively unaware of what was to spew from Uccio’s access to Rossi’s ear, in the case of the post Argentine GP, the media lined up as willing co-conspirators where Rossi called for Jihad on Marquez.

As I watched the “reporters” “asking” questions, it became immediately clear, there would be no hard shrewd inquiry, no challenge to Rossi’s yellow bananas assertions. If you haven’t already watched, do yourself a favor, if for nothing less than the comedic value of the charade. “Marc do this deliberately!” ‘Marc ruined the sport!’, ‘Race Direction do something, I need protection…’, ‘I’m scared of Marc.’ The very next thing heard should have been: ‘Wait, wait wait, let me stop you right there Valentino, first of all, you left the door wide open, you were riding considerably slower, you looked tentatively clumsy as a back marker amongst supposedly far inferior riders to you, on competative factory equipment no less, you went wide, have you looked at the on-board camera, it is clear, the video doesn’t lie, Marc took the space you left for him, a space you have taken quite regularly in your long career, you then chose to close in, rather capriciously and predictably made contact, why is this not a typical racing incident? Rossi, you seem to be making a connection to another infamous incident, Sepang 2015, are you aware that you deliberately crashed Marc out of a race after accusing him of ‘helping’ Lorenzo by taking points away from Lorenzo by wining the race at Philip Island, please explain this line of illogical reasoning, because you are not making any more sense right now?’ 'Rossi, why do you think you have moral authority to accuse Marc of reckless riding considering your actions at Sepang 2015?' This should have been the immediate reaction of any reasonable journalist intent on challenging his subject to make rational and coherent thoughts that were otherwise gibberish, not to mention perverse accusation.

This renewed debacle, one born by a typical racing incident that otherwise would never had warranted further review, but because it involved Rossi cast as the victim, has been blown up to be the second apocalypse, this IS an indictment on the media. I’ve read a few reactions by these “journalist”, many calling for Marc to be issued a black flags, race bans, suspended license, sat down with “adults” to talk about respect. I’m reminded of a quote here on this forum by David Emmett (Kropotkin) who said “.... the adults in the room.” in response to me saying they should rein in reckless riding, particularly from the rider I used to refer to as “MurderMac”. Perhaps the increased access to the sport has Mat Oxleyed Kropo’s revised takes on the situation and aligned himself with the side that thinks Marquez should be ‘sat down with the adults in the room’…to give his due respect to Valentino Rossi. Even Trunkman has piled on Marc for the benefit of Rossi’s fanbase. Julian Ryder declaring “this is the sort of thing that brings a sport into disrepute”, sure I’d agree, if he were talking about the skewed nature of the extraordinary care for which Rossi is kiddy handled in the media. Spanish journalist Manuel Pecino defended himself from attacks to the affect that his nationality made him a target by Italian media, so wrote (to project his impartiality I suppose) that Marquez was “out of control”. Except the reality illustrated on the track was Marquez seemed to have the most ‘control’ actually, whilst those back markers around him awkwardly lumbered around the track. How is it that the guy who was lapping close to 2 seconds faster, dramatically illustrating ‘superior CONTROL’ of the conditions was the guy “out of control” and the guy who took an ungainly wide line, last of his factory package counterparts, and behind one of satellite complement was the measure of proficiency? This guy said, “Marc knew his chaotic riding was generating havoc”, uhm, I’d argue the slow riders around him were generating havoc, like most Los Angeles drivers in the rain, making traffic a public hazard. I’d also argue, the havoc was initially generated by the incompetence of officials to create such a situation. Krops seems to have a pitchfork out for Marquez…now, perhaps after reading this (and God knows he lifts talking points from this forum) he will tone down his rhetoric. What the hell has happened?

“Ruined Sport”

Marquez has by all accounts changed and tamed his approach to racing, so did we witness a reversion, was the old MurderMac on display, or was this a situation that is perceived through a skewed lens wrought by incompetent officials that were making up rules on the fly, conceding to mob rule culminating in the ultimate confirmation bias--based predominantly on Rossi’s influence over hearts and minds? Noteworthy, we are talking about the governing body that issued penalties during a race (that had previously been reluctant to do so, Sepang 2015) which just minutes before had created such a situation by incompetence. Rossi is adamant its still MurderMac, such a flippant suggestion and the mass media follows suit. This was clearly a racing incident of the variety (rightly or wrongly) that is rarely admonished by Race Direction. A type of racing incident, if properly reviewed has by standard precedent seldom and rather exceptionally been punished. Now Kropo was calling for a black flag, directing us to “journalists” who are chastising Marquez for seemingly defiantly thumbing his nose at authority and respect for others. “.... the adults in the room.”? The media have partly created this mess by enabling Rossi for decades! Of course this would result in a double standard for when Rossi is on the receiving end of once acceptable racing. Now this behavior is unacceptable? The world has gone mad.

I said this repeatedly after the 2015 Debacle, the sport has been turned upside down, it has been perverted by outlandish standards issued by Rossi’s influence, accepted by gutless officials who refulse to correct the perversions, enabled by gutless media to challenge him, and swallowed whole by the majority of the viewing public. Racing is no longer racing because of the introduction of unwritten rules, phantom racing etiquette (which was apparently defied by evil Marquez who upon review of the actual on-track behavior at Sepang 2015 was nothing less than clean unobstructed racing) EXCEPT by Rossi himself who deliberately aimed to crash out a fellow competitor. Lets talk about the petition by close to a million signers on MoveOn.org to momentarily suspend the rules of the sport for Valencia 15 regarding a rear grid start penalty, how about the social media campaign to pressure riders to pull over (some riders spectacularly moving over even to their own detriment) talk about “ruining the sport”. Authentic competition has been effectively suspended to accommodate Rossi in an actual race! What about the accusations that followed regarding championship fixing, the visits by Italian journalists weaoponized to harass Marquez’s family at their home, the harassment at the track by Rossi’s Fan Club more akin to goons’ mafia, etc. etc. etc. I do agree with Rossi’s sentiment that the sport has been “ruined” but it has been ruined by the sport’s governing body, particularly Carmelo Ezpaleta, for enabling the Crazy Emperor, Race Direction under the leadership of Mike Webb for never reining in Rossi’s reckless on-track attacks and setting the precedent that aggressive riding is ok and only punishable based on the influence of popularity, the media for giving Rossi a megaphone to spew his crackers crazy accusations without performing the duty of challenging him to defend his irrational thoughts, and any other enablers, such as some ex-racers that side with the insanity, and of course the Yellow Minions Cult.

“This is racing.”

Lets examine the actual racing incident that is the flash point of apparently the updated 2.0 Sepangocalypse. I’m sure someone has posted the incident here. The on-board camera clearly shows that Rossi goes wide, creating a gap, leaves the door open, Marquez having the far superior pace, takes that space. Consider if you can, had the roles been reversed, Rossi would have taken that space as he has done repeatedly over his career with no review, not to mention it would have been celebrated if Marquez had crashed, and certainly no special press conference convened to explain how such a maneuver was poof positive of the sport being ruined, undoubtedly Rossi would have been smug in his declaration: “This is racing.” But lets shelve conjecture of what might have been and talk about what did happen. Rossi capriciously attempts to shut the door he left open, as a result of his tentative and somewhat clumsy pace, and the predictable happened, the two riders come together contesting the same piece of tarmac. This was a racing incident of the variety had on tracks the world over since the invention of racing. There was no malice or ill intent on the part of Marc, he simply had the superior pace, and a gap was left open. Frankly from the on-board shot, it may have looked to Marc that Rossi was conceding the position in such conditions that the Italian clearly was overwhelmed. It’s a run-of-the-mill racing incident that rarely is reviewed, look no further than this race in fact.

If we are going to present arguments to the effect why Race Direction took action, then it is equally valid to offer evidence from Race Direction’s silence in similar incidents. So lets point out the silence in such cases, considering that if there is a message from penalties then there is an equal message from silence: No penalty or reviews for Zarco causing a crash to Pedro, which I’m hearing caused injury to his wrist and surely will be out sidelined (and at his stage, possibly career ending), no penalty or review of Petrucci barging Espargaro, nor Marquez himself aggressively overtaking Nakagami. Except, this is Rossi we are talking about, so the stretch is being made that the penalty was ‘progressive’ in nature. That is, Marc deserved sanction based on the notion of pattern. Well, lets examine that too.

Three points you’re out!

We actually had a system in MotoGP to police a pattern of progressive unacceptable on track behavior, anybody remember that? What happened to that system? Oh yeah, it was scrapped. Why? Well, the most infamous use of the points system to deter cumulative offenses resulted in Valentino Rossi starting at the back of the grid! Ooops. So this body of officials, supposedly intent on keeping riders “SAFE” because they are concerned with “safety” scrapped, that is, ....-canned a system that was devised to keep riders “safe”. That doesn’t make sense, does it? What would be the motivation to abandon a system that expressly was designed to rein in a pattern of reckless behavior? Therefore, I call ........ on the notion being crafted that Marc Marquez was issued a penalty because of a pattern of misbehavior when in fact the governing body concerned with “safety” has by its actions endorsed the message that sanctions will be taken on a case by case basis, and given the lack of consistency in punishing aggressive riding, no penalty should be reasonably expected!

Lets debunk the notion that a penalty was based on outcome, say causing a crash. We cannot say that the outcome of Rossi crashing was the standard, because Zarco went unpunished for crashing out Pedrosa, hell the incident never came up for review. We can’t insist it was due to a “pattern” as I argue above, of dangerous behavior, keeping in mind Rossi has previously painted Zarco as a dangerous rider, ‘acting like he’s still in Moto2’ according to Valentino, surely Race Direction would have been on notice to scrutinize Zarco for repeat offenses. We can’t really point to the previous penalties issued by Race Direction in this very race because frankly they were arbitrary, inconsistent at best, and the standard of precedent is clearly: no punishments will be issued for aggressive riding when a gap exists based on a plethora of examples in history, particularly by Rossi. At best, the penalties are arbitrary as it was during the moment, given the demand to drop down one position based on Marc’s contact with Espargaro (though even this is wildly inconsistent given that it could have easily been a ridiculous time penalty, or as Kropo euphemistically called it, a “time correction” to save Rossi the embarrassment of being penalized when Zarco was denied a pass by Rossi who simply cut the track to avoid being overtaken at the AustinGP. Do we remember why it was argued a “time correction” was more appropriate? For the benefit of “safety”, of course. There’s that ........ word again, so lets examine it, because as I said, if they use the word safety, surely there is some hidden meaning. As the “reasoning” went, it would have been “unsafe” for Rossi to drop down a position, given you know, people of going around a track, and trying to slow down and reverse course might could be dangerous (not to mention, Rossi would be displeased). Therefore, in race direction’s infinite wisdom, to keep Rossi safe and all, they just attached a “time correction”. So, why was Marc asked to drop down a position? If we establish this is unsafe during a race, why not just issue a time correction to Marc and let him progress, given he clearly had the superior pace, where the slow traffic around him was creating havoc? Double standards would be my guess.

The Mad Emperor

Race direction was influenced not by the outcome of Marc’s maneuver—Rossi crashing, considering Pedrosa had just been caused to spectacularly crash, but rather WHOM was involved. Again, let me repeat this point, the penalty and all its fall-out: grandstanding, pandering, shameless drama, etc. was influenced NOT by the outcome (nor this ........ premise being presented of progression of incidents, as I debunked above) but rather because it involved Valentino Rossi! This fact alone was the sole influence behind the issuing of a penalty, based on VR’s skewed popularity, the necessity to kowtow, NOT the actual racing incident, not the crash, not the supposed pattern of aggressive riding, not the confusion that was created by the governing body on revised grid procedures, but ONLY because it was against the Emperor of MotoGP. Stop and consider this for a moment, because as I said above, this makes the entire competition a farce, a perversion, to use Rossi’s own words, a “ruined sport”, when ONE rider must be handled with such exceptional attention which is not extended to others. Reminiscent of Dorna acting as Rossi’s sport agent to coerce Yamaha to take him back from his utter failure at Ducati. The whole thing revolves around Rossi, otherwise this entire incident would have been just another tiny footnote on an otherwise mundane post race synopsis.

I’ll close this part of my take with the following thought: Rossi’s claim that Race Direction is not protecting HIM, highlights the implication of exceptional arrogance, Race Direction was right then to be unconcerned by the safety of the other riders, who he mocked repeatedly for complaining to the same official body, calling them childish kids, crybabies, those who were not protected from years of his aggressive racing tactics.







Next parts, “wimps”, “whiners and winners”, “30 lbs penalty” and “the biggest loser”
 
Last edited:
Try again, Mitchell. And don't shift the goalposts this time.
There was no Google when I was cheering Okada on.

The 500s might have been tamed, but they were still nasty beasts. Would be interesting to see how many elbow down miracle saves MM would be doing if he were on even the last iteration of the 500s or the RC211V, both immensely powerful and had less computing power than a $20 Casio calculator watch, with your hands for traction control and your right foot for wheelie control. Incidentally, both, machines Rossi won decisively on.

It's not a coincidence that MM crashes lesser and lesser the more Honda improves their electronics.

You perhaps should decide whether you are just winding people up yourself or not, you appear to be a trifle confused, and as I have said previously just like your boy you don’t seem to be able to deal with being answered in kind, even apart from having a level of insight about equivalent to that of a protochordate, as evidenced by your suggestion that I changed the topic in our recent discussion after your attempt to divert to discussion of Tadi Okada, a rider I rate highly as I said in any case.

I have always been happy to have cordial discussions with literate posters of substance with whom I not infrequently disagree such as RCV and J4rn0, and it is really Rossi’s character with which I have a problem rather than his riding ability.

There are 2 different issues this week - end. MM was definitely a dangerous rider earlier in his career, hence Jumkie dubbing him Murder Marc with which I concurred. He may well be returning to past habits evidenced by multiple incidents over the weekend by the testimony of several posters I find both more credible and less hysterical than you.

Only one of those incidents involved Rossi as I understand it though, which was on the lower end of the scale of egregiousness imo, particularly in comparison with several past incidents when Rossi was the perpetrator, and still leaves Rossi well ahead in terms of being dirty in personal confrontations between the 2 riders. His reaction to the actual incident was hypocritical as well as histrionic/ over the top imo. and both Ago and the FIM president would seem to at least partly share my opinion. It is also yet another attempt at using off - track manipulation against a rider who clearly has his measure on track, behaviour which could perhaps succinctly be described as chickenshit imo, independent of whether MM revisited his former Murder Marc identity over the recent race weekend in general.
 
Last edited:
You perhaps should decide whether you are just winding people up yourself or not, you appear to be a trifle confused, and as I have said previously just like your boy you don’t seem to be able to deal with being answered in kind, even apart from having a level of insight about equivalent to that of a protochordate, as evidenced by your suggestion that I changed the topic in our recent discussion after your attempt to divert to discussion of Tadi Okada, a rider I rate highly as I said in any case.

I have always been happy to have cordial discussions with literate posters of substance with whom I not infrequently disagree such as RCV and J4rn0, and it is really Rossi’s character with which I have a problem rather than his riding ability.

There are 2 different issues this week - end. MM was definitely a dangerous rider earlier in his career, hence Jumkie dubbing him Murder Marc with which I concurred. He may well be returning to past habits evidenced by multiple incidents over the weekend by the testimony of several posters I find both more credible and less hysterical than you.

Only one of those incidents involved Rossi as I understand it though, which was on the lower end of the scale of egregiousness imo, particularly in comparison with several past incidents when Rossi was the perpetrator, and still leaves Rossi well ahead in terms of being dirty in personal confrontations between the 2 riders. His reaction to the actual incident was hypocritical as well as histrionic/ over the top imo. and both Ago and the FIM president would seem to at least partly share my opinion. It is also yet another attempt at using off - track manipulation against a rider who clearly has his measure on track, behaviour which could perhaps succinctly be described as chickenshit imo, independent of whether MM revisited his former Murder Marc identity over the recent race weekend in general.

Your opinions have the worth of used toilet paper as long as you keep using terms like "Your boy". And you're not answering in kind, you're answering in ......

He's a racer I follow. Not my family. A fact I don't feel the need to explain to those with higher than pre school education.
 
There sure are a lot of armchair and couch experts here who talk about racing lines and how the rider in the front needs to make sure the rider in the back can have a clean pass and so on. Maybe they all came from Crash.net.

Disclaimer: I may or may not be Mick Doohan.

If you have any experience or credentials that make you an authority on racing, ....... produce them.

I can tell you there are any number of people on this forum who you think know less than you, who in fact have decades of serious on-track experience.

You... you got nothing. You're nothing but a witless fan-boy poser with a personality disorder.
 
I should have known it would be a notorious event after my phone blew up from friends asking if I had “watched the race yet!!??!!” Guarding me from spoiling the event, despite offering scintillating cryptic hints about the race, inevitably providing little clues, but damn, this was way more than I expected. I barely got around to watch yesterday, which in hindsight was an eternity, one day removed from this race that undoubtedly will be seared in memory.

I suppose I’ll start from the beginning, which in this case, ‘is the end’, pun intended in more ways than one, but for starters, 60+ pages in, ah man, I’ll go back and read when I have the time (which lately is no-time). I’m sure some of the takes have already been said, but here is my offering.

Hi-Jacked

Jack Miller should file a police report, because he got raced JACKED! Speaking of the “authorities”, what an absolute cluster of comedy filled armature hour, race officials running around like chicken little-..... with their heads cut off to solve the sky was falling when in fact a problem did NOT actually exist. Ultimately the tail waged the dog, so let us walk this dog back a bit and examine the faulty decsion that the start of the race must be delayed for “safety”. If I’ve learned one thing from following this sport it is that when the organizer’s start throwing the word “safety” it usually means something else, most often it means they need to adjust for something of a rolling-rulebook to appease someone totally unrelated to safety. The race was declared a “wet race”; flag-to-flag rules apply, this hasn’t changed, there was no need to rubbish the establish protocols, so why did they do it? Are there not established rules in place for proper pit lane exiting procedures and bike swaps? Of course there are, and the riders are required to follow them or suffer the consequences of ‘penalties’ (a word being thrown around quite a bit to leverage agendas). The first wrong decision was to declare there was a problem and therefore it required a ‘delay’ of start; there was in fact no ‘act-of-god’ condition that was a safety concern dangerous enough to delay the start on time! The delay effectively jacked Jack and his team’s assertive decision to contest the race based on their technical choices! Is this not the spirit of competition, live and die by your decisions on technical matters and reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of those choices? There is no special dispensation for a mob that has made the wrong choice to be given a reprieve at the 11th hour. The lights go out, ready or not!

The delay undoubtedly changed the winner of the race (more on this later). It was an artificial outcome based on a decision not made by riders in consultation with their own team of technicians (for which supposedly competition is designed) but rather a cluster of incompetent officials with various motives appeasing and bailing-out a throng of riders who had made the wrong decision.

It should be noted that Jack Miller, thee person with the most clear grievance, has handled this situation with elegance and grace, qualities which had previously not been readily associated with him; sharply contrasted with the utter shameless and shameful drama that has ensued, particularly by the supposed statesman of the category, Rossi, including the gutless media that enables this disgraceful GP culture, and the Cult of Bopperism that is a fascinating case study of religious unhinged delusion (more on that later).

MotoFOX (pronounced MotoFucks)

The sport’s media (bloggers, commentators, writers, and supposed “journalist” and prominent voices) have once again collectively demonstrated they are effectively a DORNA sponsored institution based on the politics of popularity. When they’re not engaging in newspeak, they are parroting the company talking points, disseminating these for consumption aimed at naïve yellow sheep; though this time there seems to be an element of competition amongst these “reporters”, the game seems to be: who can out-do their hyperbole of declaring Marc Marquez the Evil Doer of Argentina and simultaneously commiserating Rossi’s victim pandering. Perhaps one of the most memorable and astute assertions made after the Sepang 2015 debacle, was the point made by Marc Marquez regarding Rossi’s ‘weaponization of the media’.

After watching the Argentine race, naturally I listened to the post race reactions, and there, along with the routine interviews was a video for a special press conference, what is this? Why do we need a special press conference? There were several racing incidents during the race; did they all get a special press conference? This was the literal inverse of the ‘canceled press conference of Valencia 2015’--one designed to shield Rossi (2015) this one designed to serve as a megaphone for Rossi. (Any chance the pre-event press conferences will be canceled for Austin to shield Marquez from the precipitous scrutiny that never was for Rossi?) Why was there a need for a special press conference? This reminded me of the infamous pre-event press conference of Sepang 15, where the media were ‘hi-jacked’ and employed as a conduit of Rossi’s deranged conspiracy theory, except in the Sepang case, the media were relatively unaware of what was to spew from Uccio’s access to Rossi’s ear, in the case of the post Argentine GP, the media lined up as willing co-conspirators where Rossi called for Jihad on Marquez.

As I watched the “reporters” “asking” questions, it became immediately clear, there would be no hard shrewd inquiry, no challenge to Rossi’s yellow bananas assertions. If you haven’t already watched, do yourself a favor, if for nothing less than the comedic value of the charade. “Marc do this deliberately!” ‘Marc ruined the sport!’, ‘Race Direction do something, I need protection…’, ‘I’m scared of Marc.’ The very next thing heard should have been: ‘Wait, wait wait, let me stop you right there Valentino, first of all, you left the door wide open, you were riding considerably slower, you looked tentatively clumsy as a back marker amongst supposedly far inferior riders to you, on competative factory equipment no less, you went wide, have you looked at the on-board camera, it is clear, the video doesn’t lie, Marc took the space you left for him, a space you have taken quite regularly in your long career, you then chose to close in, rather capriciously and predictably made contact, why is this not a typical racing incident? Rossi, you seem to be making a connection to another infamous incident, Sepang 2015, are you aware that you deliberately crashed Marc out of a race after accusing him of ‘helping’ Lorenzo by taking points away from Lorenzo by wining the race at Philip Island, please explain this line of illogical reasoning, because you are not making any more sense right now?’ 'Rossi, why do you think you have moral authority to accuse Marc of reckless riding considering your actions at Sepang 2015?' This should have been the immediate reaction of any reasonable journalist intent on challenging his subject to make rational and coherent thoughts that were otherwise gibberish, not to mention perverse accusation.

This renewed debacle, one born by a typical racing incident that otherwise would never had warranted further review, but because it involved Rossi cast as the victim, has been blown up to be the second apocalypse, this IS an indictment on the media. I’ve read a few reactions by these “journalist”, many calling for Marc to be issued a black flags, race bans, suspended license, sat down with “adults” to talk about respect. I’m reminded of a quote here on this forum by David Emmett (Kropotkin) who said “.... the adults in the room.” in response to me saying they should rein in reckless riding, particularly from the rider I used to refer to as “MurderMac”. Perhaps the increased access to the sport has Mat Oxleyed Kropo’s revised takes on the situation and aligned himself with the side that thinks Marquez should be ‘sat down with the adults in the room’…to give his due respect to Valentino Rossi. Even Trunkman has piled on Marc for the benefit of Rossi’s fanbase. Julian Ryder declaring “this is the sort of thing that brings a sport into disrepute”, sure I’d agree, if he were talking about the skewed nature of the extraordinary care for which Rossi is kiddy handled in the media. Spanish journalist Manuel Pecino defended himself from attacks to the affect that his nationality made him a target by Italian media, so wrote (to project his impartiality I suppose) that Marquez was “out of control”. Except the reality illustrated on the track was Marquez seemed to have the most ‘control’ actually, whilst those back markers around him awkwardly lumbered around the track. How is it that the guy who was lapping close to 2 seconds faster, dramatically illustrating ‘superior CONTROL’ of the conditions was the guy “out of control” and the guy who took an ungainly wide line, last of his factory package counterparts, and behind one of satellite complement was the measure of proficiency? This guy said, “Marc knew his chaotic riding was generating havoc”, uhm, I’d argue the slow riders around him were generating havoc, like most Los Angeles drivers in the rain, making traffic a public hazard. I’d also argue, the havoc was initially generated by the incompetence of officials to create such a situation. Krops seems to have a pitchfork out for Marquez…now, perhaps after reading this (and God knows he lifts talking points from this forum) he will tone down his rhetoric. What the hell has happened?

“Ruined Sport”

Marquez has by all accounts changed and tamed his approach to racing, so did we witness a reversion, was the old MurderMac on display, or was this a situation that is perceived through a skewed lens wrought by incompetent officials that were making up rules on the fly, conceding to mob rule culminating in the ultimate confirmation bias--based predominantly on Rossi’s influence over hearts and minds? Noteworthy, we are talking about the governing body that issued penalties during a race (that had previously been reluctant to do so, Sepang 2015) which just minutes before had created such a situation by incompetence. Rossi is adamant its still MurderMac, such a flippant suggestion and the mass media follows suit. This was clearly a racing incident of the variety (rightly or wrongly) that is rarely admonished by Race Direction. A type of racing incident, if properly reviewed has by standard precedent seldom and rather exceptionally been punished. Now Kropo was calling for a black flag, directing us to “journalists” who are chastising Marquez for seemingly defiantly thumbing his nose at authority and respect for others. “.... the adults in the room.”? The media have partly created this mess by enabling Rossi for decades! Of course this would result in a double standard for when Rossi is on the receiving end of once acceptable racing. Now this behavior is unacceptable? The world has gone mad.

I said this repeatedly after the 2015 Debacle, the sport has been turned upside down, it has been perverted by outlandish standards issued by Rossi’s influence, accepted by gutless officials who refulse to correct the perversions, enabled by gutless media to challenge him, and swallowed whole by the majority of the viewing public. Racing is no longer racing because of the introduction of unwritten rules, phantom racing etiquette (which was apparently defied by evil Marquez who upon review of the actual on-track behavior at Sepang 2015 was nothing less than clean unobstructed racing) EXCEPT by Rossi himself who deliberately aimed to crash out a fellow competitor. Lets talk about the petition by close to a million signers on MoveOn.org to momentarily suspend the rules of the sport for Valencia 15 regarding a rear grid start penalty, how about the social media campaign to pressure riders to pull over (some riders spectacularly moving over even to their own detriment) talk about “ruining the sport”. Authentic competition has been effectively suspended to accommodate Rossi in an actual race! What about the accusations that followed regarding championship fixing, the visits by Italian journalists weaoponized to harass Marquez’s family at their home, the harassment at the track by Rossi’s Fan Club more akin to goons’ mafia, etc. etc. etc. I do agree with Rossi’s sentiment that the sport has been “ruined” but it has been ruined by the sport’s governing body, particularly Carmelo Ezpaleta, for enabling the Crazy Emperor, Race Direction under the leadership of Mike Webb for never reining in Rossi’s reckless on-track attacks and setting the precedent that aggressive riding is ok and only punishable based on the influence of popularity, the media for giving Rossi a megaphone to spew his crackers crazy accusations without performing the duty of challenging him to defend his irrational thoughts, and any other enablers, such as some ex-racers that side with the insanity, and of course the Yellow Minions Cult.

“This is racing.”

Lets examine the actual racing incident that is the flash point of apparently the updated 2.0 Sepangocalypse. I’m sure someone has posted the incident here. The on-board camera clearly shows that Rossi goes wide, creating a gap, leaves the door open, Marquez having the far superior pace, takes that space. Consider if you can, had the roles been reversed, Rossi would have taken that space as he has done repeatedly over his career with no review, not to mention it would have been celebrated if Marquez had crashed, and certainly no special press conference convened to explain how such a maneuver was poof positive of the sport being ruined, undoubtedly Rossi would have been smug in his declaration: “This is racing.” But lets shelve conjecture of what might have been and talk about what did happen. Rossi capriciously attempts to shut the door he left open, as a result of his tentative and somewhat clumsy pace, and the predictable happened, the two riders come together contesting the same piece of tarmac. This was a racing incident of the variety had on tracks the world over since the invention of racing. There was no malice or ill intent on the part of Marc, he simply had the superior pace, and a gap was left open. Frankly from the on-board shot, it may have looked to Marc that Rossi was conceding the position in such conditions that the Italian clearly was overwhelmed. It’s a run-of-the-mill racing incident that rarely is reviewed, look no further than this race in fact.

If we are going to present arguments to the effect why Race Direction took action, then it is equally valid to offer evidence from Race Direction’s silence in similar incidents. So lets point out the silence in such cases, considering that if there is a message from penalties then there is an equal message from silence: No penalty or reviews for Zarco causing a crash to Pedro, which I’m hearing caused injury to his wrist and surely will be out sidelined (and at his stage, possibly career ending), no penalty or review of Petrucci barging Espargaro, nor Marquez himself aggressively overtaking Nakagami. Except, this is Rossi we are talking about, so the stretch is being made that the penalty was ‘progressive’ in nature. That is, Marc deserved sanction based on the notion of pattern. Well, lets examine that too.

Three points you’re out!

We actually had a system in MotoGP to police a pattern of progressive unacceptable on track behavior, anybody remember that? What happened to that system? Oh yeah, it was scrapped. Why? Well, the most infamous use of the points system to deter cumulative offenses resulted in Valentino Rossi starting at the back of the grid! Ooops. So this body of officials, supposedly intent on keeping riders “SAFE” because they are concerned with “safety” scrapped, that is, ....-canned a system that was devised to keep riders “safe”. That doesn’t make sense, does it? What would be the motivation to abandon a system that expressly was designed to rein in a pattern of reckless behavior? Therefore, I call ........ on the notion being crafted that Marc Marquez was issued a penalty because of a pattern of misbehavior when in fact the governing body concerned with “safety” has by its actions endorsed the message that sanctions will be taken on a case by case basis, and given the lack of consistency in punishing aggressive riding, no penalty should be reasonably expected!

Lets debunk the notion that a penalty was based on outcome, say causing a crash. We cannot say that the outcome of Rossi crashing was the standard, because Zarco went unpunished for crashing out Pedrosa, hell the incident never came up for review. We can’t insist it was due to a “pattern” as I argue above, of dangerous behavior, keeping in mind Rossi has previously painted Zarco as a dangerous rider, ‘acting like he’s still in Moto2’ according to Valentino, surely Race Direction would have been on notice to scrutinize Zarco for repeat offenses. We can’t really point to the previous penalties issued by Race Direction in this very race because frankly they were arbitrary, inconsistent at best, and the standard of precedent is clearly: no punishments will be issued for aggressive riding when a gap exists based on a plethora of examples in history, particularly by Rossi. At best, the penalties are arbitrary as it was during the moment, given the demand to drop down one position based on Marc’s contact with Espargaro (though even this is wildly inconsistent given that it could have easily been a ridiculous time penalty, or as Kropo euphemistically called it, a “time correction” to save Rossi the embarrassment of being penalized when Zarco was denied a pass by Rossi who simply cut the track to avoid being overtaken at the AustinGP. Do we remember why it was argued a “time correction” was more appropriate? For the benefit of “safety”, of course. There’s that ........ word again, so lets examine it, because as I said, if they use the word safety, surely there is some hidden meaning. As the “reasoning” went, it would have been “unsafe” for Rossi to drop down a position, given you know, people of going around a track, and trying to slow down and reverse course might could be dangerous (not to mention, Rossi would be displeased). Therefore, in race direction’s infinite wisdom, to keep Rossi safe and all, they just attached a “time correction”. So, why was Marc asked to drop down a position? If we establish this is unsafe during a race, why not just issue a time correction to Marc and let him progress, given he clearly had the superior pace, where the slow traffic around him was creating havoc? Double standards would be my guess.

The Mad Emperor

Race direction was influenced not by the outcome of Marc’s maneuver—Rossi crashing, considering Pedrosa had just been caused to spectacularly crash, but rather WHOM was involved. Again, let me repeat this point, the penalty and all its fall-out: grandstanding, pandering, shameless drama, etc. was influenced NOT by the outcome (nor this ........ premise being presented of progression of incidents, as I debunked above) but rather because it involved Valentino Rossi! This fact alone was the sole influence behind the issuing of a penalty, based on VR’s skewed popularity, the necessity to kowtow, NOT the actual racing incident, not the crash, not the supposed pattern of aggressive riding, not the confusion that was created by the governing body on revised grid procedures, but ONLY because it was against the Emperor of MotoGP. Stop and consider this for a moment, because as I said above, this makes the entire competition a farce, a perversion, to use Rossi’s own words, a “ruined sport”, when ONE rider must be handled with such exceptional attention which is not extended to others. Reminiscent of Dorna acting as Rossi’s sport agent to coerce Yamaha to take him back from his utter failure at Ducati. The whole thing revolves around Rossi, otherwise this entire incident would have been just another tiny footnote on an otherwise mundane post race synopsis.

I’ll close this part of my take with the following thought: Rossi’s claim that Race Direction is not protecting HIM, highlights the implication of exceptional arrogance, Race Direction was right then to be unconcerned by the safety of the other riders, who he mocked repeatedly for complaining to the same official body, calling them childish kids, crybabies, those who were not protected from years of his aggressive racing tactics.







Next parts, “wimps”, “whiners and winners”, “30 lbs penalty” and “the biggest loser”

Great post jum. Only thing you left out was the chick with the dragons.
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top