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...At least everyone is leaving Jorge alone and not making up any ........ fake stories!!!
 
Pedrosa crashed because he used too much throttle on wet tarmac. You kids need to understand this is racing. Racing means riders want to go as fast as they can and pass competitors. Zarco did nothing wrong, he did his duty as a racer.
 
synn said:
Rajesh would know.
He always qualified last so he never bothered the fast riders.
Click to expand...

Tell you what Weak Tea. You post photos of your days as a racer and I'll post mine. Then we'll see who's the couch racer. Okay?
Will you do that? No? I didn't think so.
 
danski said:
Good article that, thanks synn.
@segfault what applies to racing games on your ps4 doesn't apply in real life ok.
Click to expand...

There's a limit, sure. The author of that article is a little close to ballet for my liking.
 
Keshav said:
Tell you what Weak Tea. You post photos of your days as a racer and I'll post mine. Then we'll see who's the couch racer. Okay?
Will you do that? No? I didn't think so.
Click to expand...

Can you stop calling him weak tea?....i like weak tea.
 
RCV600RR said:
As usual, I don't disagree - Rossi had done some silly things in his career - I think there's a solid argument he should've been disqualified at Jerez 05 and at Sepang 15.

He also made an unrealistic pass on Stoner at Jerez 2011 which never would've stuck.

However, three (or four, if we include Laguna which I thought was borderline) incidents in 21 seasons is very different from what MM has pulled throughout his career.
Click to expand...
If talent does what it can and genius does what it must as is said, the problem is that there are 2 Ayrton Sennas out there/riders with a Senna attitude and one is 15 years younger.

As Povol and Birdman have astutely imo if from a somewhat biased perspective similar to mine implied, Dorna and Rossi have actually produced MM, Dorna by giving him close to a free pass on how he rode in moto 2. There is strong evidence he has studied and emulated Rossi, having more or less re-enacted Jerez 2005 and LS 2008.

Reaping and sowing is what is transpiring imo, and while Rossi may not have been in as many incidents in a single week-end he has set ample precedent for MM. all 4 incidents you mention were worse than the current one imo, where Rossi could just have conceded the corner to a faster rider, what he would have expected/pretty much demanded when he was 25 of the likes of Max Biaggi. The closest parallel to this incident imo was the crude pass Stoner made the race after Sachsenring 2012 (? on Bautista), without the hypocrisy on Stoner’s part given his stance on clean riding.

As Povol said demonising MM is something Rossi has already tried to little or no effect, which goes back to my view he is living in a bubble informed by the likes of Uccio, because I don’t think he is stupid in general.
 
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This synn-danski reminds me something. Years ago, when no registration was required on crash.net, Mick Doohan started commenting there. He was not using his full name. And he was instantly overwhelmed by wannabe pundits who kept telling him he has no clue what motorcycle racing is alike. He disappeared fast.
This forum is much better than crash.net, the percentage of knowledgeable people is higher. However, some crash.net customers show up here, too.
 
This forum is as insane as ever.
Not that I mind... :).

Now, I really don't feel any need to discuss the Nth episode of the MM-VR hate saga. Surely at Dorna they can't believe their luck, they'll have 2 or 3 millions more viewers next time... But that's just show business. The real issue in Argentina has been the incompetence of marshals and race direction.

OK, they allowed the riders and teams to basically self-dictate a starting procedure, but let's say it was allowed for 'safety' reasons. So everybody but Miller returned to the pits, changed the bikes and tires, then re-aligned three lines to the back, while said Miller (and his tires) were left alone in the cold, waiting. Penalized for having made the right decisions. Uh, ok, what to do, let's just start the race... TV networks are waiting. Grid is ready. 30 secs...

But here MM or his Honda act silly, and #93's engine suddenly stops. ...... So that means leaving the grid immediately, right? Always been the rule... Normal safety procedure. But wait, MM ignores the hesitant fat marshal and uses the empty space that has been magically left between him and Miller to restart the bike and get back to his slot, jumping nimbly on and off the bike with chimp-like timing and agility. (Chimps are beautiful animals, by the way).

Now has anybody ever seen anything like that? Not me, but I'd rather ask, I have missed a few races in the last 25 years. If not, it's probably because in a normally spaced grid it would be physically impossible (one would have to cross the start line and be disqualified, or run to the back of the grid were he was supposed to go anyway). Now, leaving the grid and going to the back and start from there (or even from the pits) would have been the wise thing to do also for MM: from what we've seen he would have won the race anyway!

But the fat marshal was too timid, and MM too impulsive or ready to ignore rules he was supposed to know, so he re-aligned in that crazy way and took off with the others as if nothing had happened. I do not know if they waited a few seconds more for him, even, but that's secondary. Now, that is something that is not supposed to happen in a grid waiting for the start. So IF it happens, and you are race direction, what are you supposed to show #93 next time he crosses the finish line? Yes: a black flag.

But no, they gave him a ride through. Now if you think of it, that's laughable. Riders have been given a ride through for moving one inch from their grid position; here we have a rider who managed to kill his engine, then used 20m of strangely available no man's land to restart his bike, went back riding in the opposite direction(!) on the track, and finally started the race as if nothing had happened. Really?

The ride through only unnerved the already frustrated MM more, of course. And since on that particular day MM and his Honda were much faster than anybody else, and since MM is MM, -- immensely talented and brave and ready to take risks and, let us say it, prone to mistakes especially when he's under real pressure, -- what followed was more or less inevitable.

But it could have been avoided. Now we'll have to go through another season of the Dorna Reality Show: The Faded Jaded Mandarin vs Chimp Champ. :rolleyes:

By the way: Miller was the moral winner. He's already universally liked among Ducati fans. It will be a more interesting story to follow. :cool:
 
J4rn0 said:
This forum is as insane as ever.
Not that I mind... :).

Now, I really don't feel any need to discuss the Nth episode of the MM-VR hate saga. Surely at Dorna they can't believe their luck, they'll have 2 or 3 millions more viewers next time... But that's just show business. The real issue in Argentina has been the incompetence of marshals and race direction.

OK, they allowed the riders and teams to basically self-dictate a starting procedure, but let's say it was allowed for 'safety' reasons. So everybody but Miller returned to the pits, changed the bikes and tires, then re-aligned three lines to the back, while said Miller (and his tires) were left alone in the cold, waiting. Penalized for having made the right decisions. Uh, ok, what to do, let's just start the race... TV networks are waiting. Grid is ready. 30 secs...

But here MM or his Honda act silly, and #93's engine suddenly stops. ...... So that means leaving the grid immediately, right? Always been the rule... Normal safety procedure. But wait, MM ignores the hesitant fat marshal and uses the empty space that has been magically left between him and Miller to restart the bike and get back to his slot, jumping nimbly on and off the bike with chimp-like timing and agility. (Chimps are beautiful animals, by the way).

Now has anybody ever seen anything like that? Not me, but I'd rather ask, I have missed a few races in the last 25 years. If not, it's probably because in a normally spaced grid it would be physically impossible (one would have to cross the start line and be disqualified, or run to the back of the grid were he was supposed to go anyway). Now, leaving the grid and going to the back and start from there (or even from the pits) would have been the wise thing to do also for MM: from what we've seen he would have won the race anyway!

But the fat marshal was too timid, and MM too impulsive or ready to ignore rules he was supposed to know, so he re-aligned in that crazy way and took off with the others as if nothing had happened. I do not know if they waited a few seconds more for him, even, but that's secondary. Now, that is something that is not supposed to happen in a grid waiting for the start. So IF it happens, and you are race direction, what are you supposed to show #93 next time he crosses the finish line? Yes: a black flag.

But no, they gave him a ride through. Now if you think of it, that's laughable. Riders have been given a ride through for moving one inch from their grid position; here we have a rider who managed to kill his engine, then used 20m of strangely available no man's land to restart his bike, went back riding in the opposite direction(!) on the track, and finally started the race as if nothing had happened. Really?

The ride through only unnerved the already frustrated MM more, of course. And since on that particular day MM and his Honda were much faster than anybody else, and since MM is MM, -- immensely talented and brave and ready to take risks and, let us say it, prone to mistakes especially when he's under real pressure, -- what followed was more or less inevitable.

But it could have been avoided. Now we'll have to go through another season of the Dorna Reality Show: The Faded Jaded Mandarin vs Chimp Champ. :rolleyes:

By the way: Miller was the moral winner. He's already universally liked among Ducati fans. It will be a more interesting story to follow. :cool:
Click to expand...

Excellent post J4rno
 
synn said:
It’s even more hilarious when you hear the experts of this forum assplaining how the rider in the front is responsible for making sure the rider in the back safely gets through.

Every single time I think that these mouth breathers can’t get any less dumb, they collectively prove me wrong again.
Click to expand...

Yet you yourself cited the Max Biaggi elbow incident, when in retrospect Max’s main options were to concede the corner or change his line from a position in front of Rossi, which would have involved him going across other rides already engaged in negotiating the corner.
 
J4rn0 said:
This forum is as insane as ever.
Not that I mind... :).

Now, I really don't feel any need to discuss the Nth episode of the MM-VR hate saga. Surely at Dorna they can't believe their luck, they'll have 2 or 3 millions more viewers next time... But that's just show business. The real issue in Argentina has been the incompetence of marshals and race direction.

OK, they allowed the riders and teams to basically self-dictate a starting procedure, but let's say it was allowed for 'safety' reasons. So everybody but Miller returned to the pits, changed the bikes and tires, then re-aligned three lines to the back, while said Miller (and his tires) were left alone in the cold, waiting. Penalized for having made the right decisions. Uh, ok, what to do, let's just start the race... TV networks are waiting. Grid is ready. 30 secs...

But here MM or his Honda act silly, and #93's engine suddenly stops. ...... So that means leaving the grid immediately, right? Always been the rule... Normal safety procedure. But wait, MM ignores the hesitant fat marshal and uses the empty space that has been magically left between him and Miller to restart the bike and get back to his slot, jumping nimbly on and off the bike with chimp-like timing and agility. (Chimps are beautiful animals, by the way).

Now has anybody ever seen anything like that? Not me, but I'd rather ask, I have missed a few races in the last 25 years. If not, it's probably because in a normally spaced grid it would be physically impossible (one would have to cross the start line and be disqualified, or run to the back of the grid were he was supposed to go anyway). Now, leaving the grid and going to the back and start from there (or even from the pits) would have been the wise thing to do also for MM: from what we've seen he would have won the race anyway!

But the fat marshal was too timid, and MM too impulsive or ready to ignore rules he was supposed to know, so he re-aligned in that crazy way and took off with the others as if nothing had happened. I do not know if they waited a few seconds more for him, even, but that's secondary. Now, that is something that is not supposed to happen in a grid waiting for the start. So IF it happens, and you are race direction, what are you supposed to show #93 next time he crosses the finish line? Yes: a black flag.

But no, they gave him a ride through. Now if you think of it, that's laughable. Riders have been given a ride through for moving one inch from their grid position; here we have a rider who managed to kill his engine, then used 20m of strangely available no man's land to restart his bike, went back riding in the opposite direction(!) on the track, and finally started the race as if nothing had happened. Really?

The ride through only unnerved the already frustrated MM more, of course. And since on that particular day MM and his Honda were much faster than anybody else, and since MM is MM, -- immensely talented and brave and ready to take risks and, let us say it, prone to mistakes especially when he's under real pressure, -- what followed was more or less inevitable.

But it could have been avoided. Now we'll have to go through another season of the Dorna Reality Show: The Faded Jaded Mandarin vs Chimp Champ. :rolleyes:

By the way: Miller was the moral winner. He's already universally liked among Ducati fans. It will be a more interesting story to follow. :cool:
Click to expand...
The legend returns.

Good to have you back.
 
michaelm said:
If talent does what it can and genius does what it must as is said, the problem is that there are 2 Ayrton Sennas out there/riders with a Senna attitude and one is 15 years younger.

As Povol and Birdman have astutely imo if from a somewhat biased perspective similar to mine implied, Dorna and Rossi have actually produced MM, Dorna by giving him close to a free pass on how he rode in moto 2. There is strong evidence he has studied and emulated Rossi, having more or less re-enacted Jerez 2005 and LS 2008.

Reaping and sowing is what is transpiring imo, and while Rossi may not have been in as many incidents in a single week-end he has set ample precedent for MM. all 4 incidents you mention were worse than the current one imo, where Rossi could just have conceded the corner to a faster rider, what he would have expected/pretty much demanded when he was 25 of the likes of Max Biaggi. The closest parallel to this incident imo was the crude pass Stoner made the race after Sachsenring 2012 (? on Bautista), without the hypocrisy on Stoner’s part given his stance on clean riding.

As Povol said demonising MM is something Rossi has already tried to little or no effect, which goes back to my view he is living in a bubble informed by the likes of Uccio, because I don’t think he is stupid in general.
Click to expand...
Agree with everything here (particularly the Senna, but 15 years younger point!) except for one: I think what MM did this weekend, showing unflinching recklessness (even after he had punted Aleix and almost punted Rabat) was worse than what Rossi did to Sete at Jerez (last corner, last lap, Sete arguably had the opportunity not to turn in and would've run wide and VR would've run off), but MM has been much worse throughout his career.

If we mention VR on Sete, then MM did something almost identical to Lorenzo.

If we mention VR on Casey, then MM did worse to Corsi (in FP, in the dry!).

MM had some blame for Sepang 15.

What MM did to Wilairot was disgraceful. He also took Pol out at Catalunya in 2012, sent Luthi off at Qatar in 2012, took Dani out in 2013, almost took out the track marshals at Silverstone, took out AEspargaro this weekend, took out VR this weekend, took out Bautista in 2015 at Qatar, etc.

I'm sure I can find more examples if I give it even a little more thought (e.g. he was sent to the back of the grid at Valencia 2012 for some reason too).

There's no comparison if one compares the misdeeds of one rider versus the other, but I think Dorna encouraged this when they let Rossi's move at Jerez go, for example.
 
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RCV600RR said:
Agree with everything here (particularly the Senna, but 15 years younger point!) except for one: I think what MM did this weekend, showing unflinching recklessness (even after he had punted Aleix and almost punted Rabat) was worse than what Rossi did to Sete at Jerez (last corner, last lap, Sete arguably had the opportunity not to turn in and would've run wide and VR would've run off), but MM has been much worse throughout his career.

If we mention VR on Sete, then MM did something almost identical to Lorenzo.

If we mention VR on Casey, then MM did worse to Corsi (in FP, in the dry!).

MM had some blame for Sepang 15.

What MM did to Wilairot was disgraceful. He also took Pol out at Catalunya in 2012, sent Luthi off at Qatar in 2012, took Dani out in 2013, almost took out the track marshals at Silverstone, took out AEspargaro this weekend, took out VR this weekend, took out Bautista in 2015 at Qatar, etc.

I'm sure I can find more examples if I give it even a little more thought (e.g. he was sent to the back of the grid at Valencia 2012 for some reason too).

There's no comparison if one compares the misdeeds of one rider versus the other, but I think Dorna encouraged this when they let Rossi's move at Jerez go, for example.
Click to expand...
Sure, I only watched replays of the incident not the whole race which was on at 4:00 am, and i tend not to watch replays of a whole race when I know the result, and am past the stage where I can make any assessment based only my own bias rather than everyone else’s in addition.

I was contrasting the actual incident with the other 4 because I think it is unlikely MM had any intent other than to pass Rossi as quickly as possible, and because he was in control of his bike and in a position to make the corner fairly normally if Rossi hadn’t been there. I believe Jerez 2005 and Sepang 2015 involved absolute illegal/unfair intent on Rossi’s part, and that he wasn’t going to make the corner on any kind of racing line/was uncontrolled and careless of consequences in the case of all 3 of Jerez 2005, LS 2008 and Jerez 2011.
 
Segfault said:
This synn-danski reminds me something. Years ago, when no registration was required on crash.net, Mick Doohan started commenting there. He was not using his full name. And he was instantly overwhelmed by wannabe pundits who kept telling him he has no clue what motorcycle racing is alike. He disappeared fast.
This forum is much better than crash.net, the percentage of knowledgeable people is higher. However, some crash.net customers show up here, too.
Click to expand...

There sure are a lot of armchair and couch experts here who talk about racing lines and how the rider in the front needs to make sure the rider in the back can have a clean pass and so on. Maybe they all came from Crash.net.

Disclaimer: I may or may not be Mick Doohan.
 
synn said:
There sure are a lot of armchair and couch experts here who talk about racing lines and how the rider in the front needs to make sure the rider in the back can have a clean pass and so on. Maybe they all came from Crash.net.

Disclaimer: I may or may not be Mick Doohan.
Click to expand...

You are the one disagreeing with Ago, who unless you actually are Mick Doohan is probably the best qualified person in the world (8/15) to comment by your own criteria, Mike Hailwood bring dead.
 
Last edited:
michaelm said:
You are the one disagreeing with Ago, who unless you actually are Mick Doohan is probably the best qualified person in the world (8/15) to comment by your own criteria, Mike Hailwood bring dead.
Click to expand...

Since you seem to be even more dim witted than Barry and curryface, I have never commented on that Ago piece and never singled out the Rossi incident, right from the start of this thread my position was that a rider causing six incidents one weekend is in the wrong and anyone trying to find excuses for him has an agenda.

As far as I can see, Ago says MM is in the wrong Too.

So please try a little harder to be a little better.
 

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