Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya(spoilers mixed with stoner/rossi talk)

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Nice to see Jorge giving Vale some big respect in his post race interview. It's something that has often been lacking in my opinion.
MotoGP News - MotoGP Catalunya: Lorenzo: 'Rossi made an unbelievable race'
Also good vibes between Rossi and Marquez, it's like the sad passing of Luis has put things in perspective for them.
MotoGP News - MotoGP Catalunya: Rossi: My strategy worked - except with Marquez
If those two can bury the hatchet maybe people on here can do the same.

https://youtu.be/XnfmagQoYrA
 
Why don't you stop making stupid assumptions, I have followed the sport for the best part of FOUR decades and also will post Rossi. You post like a complete .....

You say you've watched the sport for four decades, yet you lack all perspective on the sport, and have yet to make one single compelling argument about any position you take. I'd like to think if I watched GP for four decades I might have learned a thing or two. But such things are clearly an impossibility for some.
 
Reigning MotoGP champion Jorge Lorenzo expressed his frustration over the current penalty system of the series in the aftermath of his crash with Andrea Iannone in the Catalan Grand Prix.

Lorenzo was hit by Iannone while defending fifth place on lap 17 of the race, with the Yamaha rider launching off his bike and suffering a painful landing in the run-off.

Iannone, who had previously received a grid drop for a collision with Andrea Dovizioso in Argentina, has incurred another penalty and will start from the back of the grid at Assen, but Lorenzo believes that punishment is not harsh enough.

"For me, I don't want to say it, but at this moment, the points rules are not in a good way," said Lorenzo, having himself picked up a race ban in 250cc in 2005 after a collision with Alex de Angelis.

"10 years ago, you made a mistake - [MotoGP rider John] Hopkins made a mistake in Motegi [2003] - one race off. I made two mistakes in 2005, one race off.

"Now you have to do four mistakes like Iannone did today - he make his second today, he start last next race. If he makes a third, he'll start in the pitlane. Then one race [ban].

"In soccer, if you make a hard entrance, red card, minimum one match [suspension]. In this sport, we're playing with our lives."

Changing the rules

Lorenzo confirmed that he would not be appealing the decision of the stewards, but said he would bring up the idea of revamping the penalty system, both to race direction and at the Safety Commission, after his absence from the latter in Catalunya caused controversy.

"I will speak with Mike [Webb, MotoGP race director]," Lorenzo said.

"I won't make an appeal because they won't change the decision, but I will speak with Mike Webb and I will try to speak in the Safety Comission about this, because sometimes we only understand that something must be changed if it happens to you.

"Let's see if other riders have a similar opinion to me. Let's see if we can do something, 'cause there is something we must change to avoid certain risks."

Heavy penalties needed

In lobbying for stricter penalties, Lorenzo insists that his own 2005 race ban had helped him become a better rider.

"When I was 17 or 18 in 2005, I didn't ask myself that I wasn't a conscious rider, that I was a risky rider. I would've said 'no' because you don't want to accept that. We [riders] are very proud.

"But if I didn't get the penalty, I would not have changed, sooner or later I would've made the same [mistake].

"I don't know if it's enough for Andrea to understand that he needs to change something, a little bit, to avoid these actions.

"If you ride like that when you are fighting with other riders, if you don't change your way of riding, sooner or later something will happen. "

Iannone should have gotten a race ban, says Lorenzo

I don't disagree with the principle that Iannone should have been given a race ban. We'll see if he can somehow convince Dorna and RD to change the farcical punishment system for the future.
 
Iannone is already taking a lot of .... this year, and a back of the grid start will mean basically a lost race. The alternative would have been to penalize him with another point (just like happened in Argentina after the Dovi crash) and the immediate consequence of that would be... nothing. So I don't think Andrea had it easy.
 
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You say you've watched the sport for four decades, yet you lack all perspective on the sport, and have yet to make one single compelling argument about any position you take. I'd like to think if I watched GP for four decades I might have learned a thing or two. But such things are clearly an impossibility for some.

No, I have a different perspective than you. That is not lacking it's just not in agreement with various 'theories' i.e. Rossi deliberately and premeditatedly causing Marquez to crash. The alleged 'kick'. The stupid SNS argument that supposedly makes his titles worthless yadayada . You guys stand by these as if they are in the bible. And anyone who has an opposing position is an ..... etc.
Fact is not one of those theories is provable or true for that matter.
 
No, I have a different perspective than you. That is not lacking it's just not in agreement with various 'theories' i.e. Rossi deliberately and premeditatedly causing Marquez to crash. The alleged 'kick'. The stupid SNS argument that supposedly makes his titles worthless yadayada . You guys stand by these as if they are in the bible. And anyone who has an opposing position is an ..... etc.
Fact is not one of those theories is provable or true for that matter.

Rossi admitted to deliberately engaging in an action that resulted in Marquez crashing. Not really sure why you and others of your kind have difficulty understanding that. It's not a theory, it's a fact.

Actually the SNS argument is perfectly valid. Haven't seen you offer some kind of rebuttal to this.

So once again, you post and have nothing of value to say.

As Mike said, we're still waiting for that argument to come.
 
Iannone is already taking a lot of .... this year, and a back of the grid start will mean basically a lost race. The alternative would have been to penalize him with another point (just like happened in Argentina after the Dovi crash) and the immediate consequence of that would be... nothing. So I don't think Andrea had it easy.

Not necessarily.

The bike is fast enough that he can get into the top 10 at Assen quite easily.
 
Rossi admitted to deliberately engaging in an action that resulted in Marquez crashing. Not really sure why you and others of your kind have difficulty understanding that. It's not a theory, it's a fact.

Actually the SNS argument is perfectly valid. Haven't seen you offer some kind of rebuttal to this.

So once again, you post and have nothing of value to say.

As Mike said, we're still waiting for that argument to come.

If you word it like what Rossi actually said it's different to your perspective on it no? Of course you don't want to read it as anything other than 'I caused Marc to crash deliberately' which he never said, at all.
SNS argument would indeed be more valid if other riders did not have them, again a theory that is based on hearsay more than fact.
Edit, a quick search on 'rossi Saturday night specials' brought all of two results, both threads on motogp forum.
 
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No, I have a different perspective than you. That is not lacking it's just not in agreement with various 'theories' i.e. Rossi deliberately and premeditatedly causing Marquez to crash. The alleged 'kick'. The stupid SNS argument that supposedly makes his titles worthless yadayada . You guys stand by these as if they are in the bible. And anyone who has an opposing position is an ..... etc.
Fact is not one of those theories is provable or true for that matter.

FFS DB.

Of course the SNS thing is a theory, and not one I necessarily agree with; I tend more to go with J4rn0 and another very well informed Rossi-phile poster of days of yore in Babelfish, that the SNS tyres were basically a control tyre for most of the contending riders. I suspect this didn't exactly work to Rossi's disadvantage, but such inequitable tyre regimes had also been part of the scheme of things in the sport long before Rossi.

There is absolutely nothing theoretical about Rossi deliberately making an illegal non-racing move at Sepang 2015 which caused MM to crash though, play with semantics though you may try. Once he made that move the responsibility was entirely on him, given there should have been no necessity for any response from MM.

You and anyone of your allegiance also have absolutely no moral high ground in regard to complaint about conspiracy theories concerning Rossi given his carry-on last year in any case.

Most of all, it has taken the death of yet another rider to finally silence the beyond unseemly booing of your ignorant fellow travelers, the whole reason we Rossi haters who apparently refuse to enjoy the sport argued so vehemently that it was inappropriate all along. Some of those who argued supporters of this sport should not be required to adhere to any different standard than football/soccer hooligans are even engaging in triumphalism on this very thread.

I have no problem at all acknowledging Rossi's talent and achievements and indeed greatness as a rider, including last year at age 36, and he bids fair to exceed this at age 37 going by the last race. I make no bones about continuing, and even hardening, my attitude in regard to despising his machinations past and present, as exemplified by him in victory this week continuing to attempt to make Jorge the guilty party for events late season last year and responsible for any estrangement they might have.

Not too keen about Jorge's complaints about the changes to the track being a plot against him in the face of his compatriot with whom he reputedly had some association dying either. I might have to write off all these latter day riders and go back to being a Lawson, Rainey and Doohan fan as I was back in the day. Wayne Gardner starts to look good to me again as well.
 
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No Wayne Gardner should never look good to anyone the guy is a first class tool.
 
FFS DB.

Of course the SNS thing is a theory, and not one I necessarily agree with; I tend more to go with J4rn0 and another very well informed Rossi-phile poster of days of yore in Babelfish, that the SNS tyres were basically a control tyre for most of the contending riders. I suspect this didn't exactly work to Rossi's disadvantage, but such inequitable tyre regimes had also had been part of the scheme of things in the sport long before Rossi.

There is absolutely nothing theoretical about Rossi deliberately making an illegal non-racing move at Sepang 2015 which caused MM to crash though, play with semantics though you may try. Once he made that move the responsibility was entirely on him, given there should have been no necessity for any response from MM.

You and anyone of your allegiance also have absolutely no moral high ground in regard to complaint about conspiracy theories concerning Rossi given his carry-on last year in any case.

Most of all, it has taken the death of yet another rider to finally silence the beyond unseemly booing of your ignorant fellow travelers, the whole reason we Rossi haters who apparently refuse to enjoy the sport argued so vehemently that it was inappropriate all along. Some of those who argued supporters of this sport should not be required to adhere to any different standard than football/soccer hooligans are even engaging in triumphalism on this very thread.

I have no problem at all acknowledging Rossi's talent and achievements and indeed greatness as a rider, including last year at age 36, and he bids fair to exceed this at age 37 going by the last race. I make no bones about continuing, and even hardening, my attitude in regard to despising his machinations past and present, as exemplified by him in victory this week continuing to attempt to make Jorge the guilty party for events late season last year and responsible for any estrangement they might have.

Not too keen about Jorge's complaints about the changes to the track being a plot against him in the face of his compatriot with whom he reputedly had some association dying either. I might have to write off all these latter day riders and go back to being a Lawson, Rainey and Doohan fan as I was back in the day. Wayne Gardner starts to look good to me again as well.

i think i understand it now. Some of us compare Rossi's move to torturing animals like michael vick. while others see it more like a batter charging the plate after a pitcher throws a fastball at his head.
 
truthful answer. I saw it with my own eyes. I could tell MM was faster. I am confident he could have motored off. as he did in PI. in laguna Casey had Rossi dead on the straights. Rossi could not hang with him down T1.
Honest question- do you really think Rossi was playing that tactic with MM? in that point of the championship?
We 'both' saw it with our own eyes. This is what I know, Marquez generally rides straight up. What you see is what he's capable of in terms of pace, that is, he's not known for Machiavellian tactics. Rossi on the other hand not only is known for it but we've 'both' seen it with our own eyes. What you're asking is for 'both' of us to suspend Rossi’s modus operandi in trying to win because you're reverting to a conventional perspective. You insist Rossi was racing conventionally, a man that has practically never done so. And that, against Marquez who has raced conventional his entire life.

There is far more motivation and thought going into Rossi's on track tactics during a race compared to Marquez. Rossi fans have reminded us of this ad nausea. But in this one race you're going to suspend this notion and favor a notion that Rossi was the honest guy with no ulterior motive (this after he had just made these baseless accusations)?

You can't imagine Marquez was suffering some early pace issues but was battling to stay ahead because his pace at that moment fairly matched Rossi. You just interpret the overtaking as dubious. Why? Oh yeah, Rossi said so. Did you detect this dubious overtaking at Phillip Island too? 54 passes. Or were just Sepang's passes too many?
 
If you word it like what Rossi actually said it's different to your perspective on it no? Of course you don't want to read it as anything other than 'I caused Marc to crash deliberately' which he never said, at all.
SNS argument would indeed be more valid if other riders did not have them, again a theory that is based on hearsay more than fact.
Edit, a quick search on 'rossi Saturday night specials' brought all of two results, both threads on motogp forum.

Jesus christ, you still think Rossi admitting to deliberately running MM wide at Sepang is a debatable point? It's not. You and your fellow brethren have been intent on portraying the whole thing as nothing more than a regrettable incident that had no malicious intent to it. It doesn't ....... matter what you believe the end intent to be, what matters is what happened.

At it's barest essentials the whole thing goes like this:

Rossi intended to run MM wide. MM crashed as a result of VR running him wide.

Even if I concede the point that VR didn't intend for MM to crash, he still did as a result of his deliberate actions. That should have resulted in a half a year or year long ban because this is motorcycle racing, and that could have caused a serious or fatal injury. Any other sport would have seen a competitor banned for using an object as a weapon, or simply assaulting a fellow competitor.

I'm a hockey fan, and back in 2000 Boston Bruin, Marty McSorley swung his stick at the head of fellow competitor Donald Brashear. It was a heat of the moment reaction he had. You know what happened to McSorley? He was suspended from the NHL and he was also prosecuted for criminal charges in Canada. He was found guilty of assault with a weapon. His suspension was extended to a year after that conviction, and he never played another game in the NHL again. All because of one moment where he lost his head, he found himself out of the sport he played.



There's enough precedent across multiple professional sports that fully support the claims of myself and others that Rossi should have been suspended for a lengthy period of time. That he wasn't will always be a black mark on his career. Anyone who tries to defend what he did is an ..... or a gutless piece of .... who can't see the difference between right and wrong.

The Saturday Night Specials were a fact of life in GP, and the press corps at large did not report enough about them, and what they meant for GP. If you want to debate a point, you could debate that they didn't really help Rossi that much, which I would find to be a weak argument given that they sure as .... helped Toni Elias. Just imagine if Stoner had SNS tires when he was on the LCR? He took a pole position with third rate tires that year, so can you imagine if he had access to the special tires, what might have been in 2006? The SNS tires were also more representative of a larger problem with several years of Rossi's career where he was afforded significant advantages that even his own teammates at times were not given. Talented rider? Yes. But that should have been all the more reason that things remained fairly equal within the team itself. Win on talent, not ........ advantages or throwing temper tantrums because you want better tires.
 
NOT interesting. Tiresome.
I guess we should all stop talking and reading about it then.

This topic will continue to be debated because it still has a long reach into the current dynamic. For example, Marquez extending his hand to congratulate Rossi, the reason it's news is because it speaks about last year's debacle. We're not bring it back up out of the blue, the gesture we say spawns the discussion. That is to say, it is part of this weekend's event.

What made you decide it would be interesting or noteworthy to register your disapproval in discussing the topic?
 
Well i do believe you think Rossi is that stupid. But I don't. I don't think he'd .... around cat and mouse with MM at that point in the championship just to make a point. makes no sense. i find it to be a birdbrain theory.
the thought that he could have motored off past MM & didn't is as i said earlier. delusional.
You chose to believe Marquez had the pace to motor off. Why? In the context of the season this was a recurring theme, Marc had inconsistent pace at the early stages.

You also chose to believe Rossi couldn't just motor off. You assume honesty in Rossi’s pace, a man whose honesty, on and off the track, has been a subject of debate for years.

In other words, you are choosing to suspend belief in favor of an anomaly that goes counter to what we both have seen regarding these two riders. Suddenly Marquez is a Machiavellian and Rossi is Mother Teresa.
 
MM is desperate to get some of his popularity back. guilty conscience. got to be wearing on him. Did you hear the crowd erupt when Rossi went by MM that first time? In Spain no less.
Yet, it was Marquez with the presence of mind to take advantage of Rossi’s high emotions to extend his hand. Rossi was happy, and when you're emotionally high like that you're more susceptible to conciliation. Everybody is saying it was because of Salom's death, and that partly played, but Marc using the moment of Rossi's EGO was very mature for the lad.

I saw a similar person in the press conference, the post QUALIFYING one. He took command of a tense moment like a seasoned veteran. Watch that press conference. That conference made a great impression on my regarding Marquez. He is a far greater leader than the current top 4, at least he behaved this way at Catalunya. Including parc ferme. Rossi would have been seething had he lost to Marquez. We wouldn't be discussing a hand shake.
 
I guess we should all stop talking and reading about it then.

This topic will continue to be debated because it still has a long reach into the current dynamic. For example, Marquez extending his hand to congratulate Rossi, the reason it's news is because it speaks about last year's debacle. We're not bring it back up out of the blue, the gesture we say spawns the discussion. That is to say, it is part of this weekend's event.

What made you decide it would be interesting or noteworthy to register your disapproval in discussing the topic?

Where did you get the idea that it was Marquez that extended his hand to congratulate Rossi?

All videos I've been able to find don't show Marquez extending his hand or him at all until they are shacking hands....you can't definitely say who was first at extending their hand....so perhaps you should stick with the story as that they shock hands and don't try to colour the narrative with bias against one or the other.....
 
No Wayne Gardner should never look good to anyone the guy is a first class tool.

I was a fan when he raced, thought he was a tool in his retirement. He seems to have calmed down a little in latter years. A courageous stand-up rider on the vicious device he rode to that world championship though.
 

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