<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe you know more than me but... Wasn't the Ferrari testing part of Vale's lobby to get off Michelin's? Unlike Dani he had to push pretty hard to make the switch - F1 testing was just posturing as part of negotiation...
Like #46 I'm a little vague on the, "stupid pre planned celebration stunts 'for no good reason", do you have a for instance?
Finally I am puzzled as to how either of these things adds up to Vale's being "unprofessional".
OK, celebrations.....how about this one!
So obviously held over from the last race of 2006.............as that last skittle (No.8) just about topples to snatch title number 8 at the death? Well, he didn't win it in 2006, nor did he win it in 2007. Shame really, cos it would have been funny if he had saved it!
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Unprofessional?
F1 testing was just posturing as part of negotiation...................you say it yourself. It was a publicity stunt, mid season. Professional showman maybe, but losing focus on the immediate job in hand mid season.
Wasn't the Ferrari testing part of Vale's lobby to get off Michelin's you ask.
I do hope not. That smacks of spoilt brat behaviour in a professional sport. Do you really think he did it to piss his employer off, cos that don't look good on your CV! I hardly think it was a defining moment, more likely hard negotiation and money matters.
Like #46 I'm a little vague on the, "stupid pre planned celebration stunts 'for no good reason", do you have a for instance?
Finally I am puzzled as to how either of these things adds up to Vale's being "unprofessional".
OK, celebrations.....how about this one!
So obviously held over from the last race of 2006.............as that last skittle (No.8) just about topples to snatch title number 8 at the death? Well, he didn't win it in 2006, nor did he win it in 2007. Shame really, cos it would have been funny if he had saved it!
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Unprofessional?
F1 testing was just posturing as part of negotiation...................you say it yourself. It was a publicity stunt, mid season. Professional showman maybe, but losing focus on the immediate job in hand mid season.
Wasn't the Ferrari testing part of Vale's lobby to get off Michelin's you ask.
I do hope not. That smacks of spoilt brat behaviour in a professional sport. Do you really think he did it to piss his employer off, cos that don't look good on your CV! I hardly think it was a defining moment, more likely hard negotiation and money matters.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2008, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>BTW wasn't Vale willing WCs in 2001 when he raced Suzuka 8 hours AND in 2002 and 2005 when raced WRC? Apparently this didn't blur his focus...
Were these mid season?
Were these mid season?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Sep 11 2008, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>in 06 rossi had a bit of bad luck in a couple of races like being taken out by scud ect but i also think he deserved to loose in 06 because he was not fully focused and did spend to much time partying driving F1 and rally cars ect when he should have been concentrating on his championship.
Thanks Rog
My life Rog, America, Jumkie, sun and tequila really had an impact!
Thanks Rog
My life Rog, America, Jumkie, sun and tequila really had an impact!
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Burky, just a different viewpoint I guess.
Skittles celebration was for ending his longest (to that point) race win drought, and I kinda like it... but then again I grew up watching the various victory dances/celebrations in footy, hoops, American football and NASCAR smokey burnouts/donuts. Certainly nice to see professionalism AND personality - why does a winner have to race back to parc ferme just to spew canned thanks to sponsors and team?
Ferrari testing was from Jan. 31 to Feb. 02 - hardly mid season, Burky.
Also ya gotta know that without options negotiations are pretty one sided. When you're negotiating your contract with Microsoft its nice to have the offer from Apple in your pocket... When you are negotiating for a new tyre deal even the possibility, however remote, of Rossi's not competing in MotoGP is a pretty big stick!
Finally Michelin wasn't Rossi's employer. I'm thinking Yamaha was happy to see Rossi fighting for what he needed to better his and his team's situation.
Skittles celebration was for ending his longest (to that point) race win drought, and I kinda like it... but then again I grew up watching the various victory dances/celebrations in footy, hoops, American football and NASCAR smokey burnouts/donuts. Certainly nice to see professionalism AND personality - why does a winner have to race back to parc ferme just to spew canned thanks to sponsors and team?
Ferrari testing was from Jan. 31 to Feb. 02 - hardly mid season, Burky.
Also ya gotta know that without options negotiations are pretty one sided. When you're negotiating your contract with Microsoft its nice to have the offer from Apple in your pocket... When you are negotiating for a new tyre deal even the possibility, however remote, of Rossi's not competing in MotoGP is a pretty big stick!
Finally Michelin wasn't Rossi's employer. I'm thinking Yamaha was happy to see Rossi fighting for what he needed to better his and his team's situation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2008, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Burky, just a different viewpoint I guess.
Skittles celebration was for ending his longest (to that point) race win drought, and I kinda like it... but then again I grew up watching the various victory dances/celebrations in footy, hoops, American football and NASCAR smokey burnouts/donuts. Certainly nice to see professionalism AND personality - why does a winner have to race back to parc ferme just to spew canned thanks to sponsors and team?
Ferrari testing was from Jan. 31 to Feb. 02 - hardly mid season, Burky.
Also ya gotta know that without options negotiations are pretty one sided. When you're negotiating your contract with Microsoft its nice to have the offer from Apple in your pocket... When you are negotiating for a new tyre deal even the possibility, however remote, of Rossi's not competing in MotoGP is a pretty big stick!
Finally Michelin wasn't Rossi's employer. I'm thinking Yamaha was happy to see Rossi fighting for what he needed to better his and his team's situation.
I love this place!
Longest win drought!
That was a struggle to find an alternative meaning to '8'!
Skittles celebration was for ending his longest (to that point) race win drought, and I kinda like it... but then again I grew up watching the various victory dances/celebrations in footy, hoops, American football and NASCAR smokey burnouts/donuts. Certainly nice to see professionalism AND personality - why does a winner have to race back to parc ferme just to spew canned thanks to sponsors and team?
Ferrari testing was from Jan. 31 to Feb. 02 - hardly mid season, Burky.
Also ya gotta know that without options negotiations are pretty one sided. When you're negotiating your contract with Microsoft its nice to have the offer from Apple in your pocket... When you are negotiating for a new tyre deal even the possibility, however remote, of Rossi's not competing in MotoGP is a pretty big stick!
Finally Michelin wasn't Rossi's employer. I'm thinking Yamaha was happy to see Rossi fighting for what he needed to better his and his team's situation.
I love this place!
Longest win drought!
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Everything I've read indicates there was no special significance to the number 8 - but if you know different, other than speculation, I'd be happy to hear it.
The thing is, most of us aren't looking for alternative meanings. We assimilate information and choose to believe it or not based our knowledge and experience. I haven't started having LEX-like symptoms and see no reason not to take what I read about the celebration at face value.
Factless theories and unsubstantiated speculation are really just mental masturbation - kinda fun but it might be making you blind!
The thing is, most of us aren't looking for alternative meanings. We assimilate information and choose to believe it or not based our knowledge and experience. I haven't started having LEX-like symptoms and see no reason not to take what I read about the celebration at face value.
Factless theories and unsubstantiated speculation are really just mental masturbation - kinda fun but it might be making you blind!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Factless theories and unsubstantiated speculation are really just mental masturbation - kinda fun but it might be making you blind!
Who said that!
Who said that!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Factless theories and unsubstantiated speculation are really just mental masturbation - kinda fun but it might be making you blind!
Frankly I can't see that.
Garry
Frankly I can't see that.
Garry
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Hi Burk
It's simple..give him a machine that "works" it's over for the comp...see simple.
for the haters...suck it up ..........you are fortunate to be a part of motorcycle racing history and witnessing the legend in the making style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
It's simple..give him a machine that "works" it's over for the comp...see simple.
for the haters...suck it up ..........you are fortunate to be a part of motorcycle racing history and witnessing the legend in the making style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2008, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ferrari testing was from Jan. 31 to Feb. 02 - hardly mid season, Burky.
Also ya gotta know that without options negotiations are pretty one sided. When you're negotiating your contract with Microsoft its nice to have the offer from Apple in your pocket... When you are negotiating for a new tyre deal even the possibility, however remote, of Rossi's not competing in MotoGP is a pretty big stick!
Finally Michelin wasn't Rossi's employer. I'm thinking Yamaha was happy to see Rossi fighting for what he needed to better his and his team's situation.
Vale had a contract wth Ferrari to decide with them for F1.. too much politics and Montezemelo advised him not to (as he had a bitter fight with Schumi and Todt) so that Kimi could join in 07.
Edit
Here is the content
"During the 2005 season Montezemolo decided he didn’t want Valentino Rossi even though he had a firm option to join the team. He persuaded Rossi not to take it up and stay in MotoGP. This decision upset Schumacher who could see what it meant. Rossi had had a programme mapped out to familiarise himself with the car prior to a 2007 debut. Schumacher
said at the time: “We are sad not to see him here. I think he has a very high talent
and could have done it in terms of driving.” Ross Brawn, the Ferrari technical director and a strong Todt-Schumacher ally was also upset and said: “We were very impressed with what he was able to do. It would have been very exciting. He was very impressive in all the running we did, otherwise we wouldn’t have taken him so seriously. It would have been a nice challenge to have. It’s a shame.”
Article Link
Also ya gotta know that without options negotiations are pretty one sided. When you're negotiating your contract with Microsoft its nice to have the offer from Apple in your pocket... When you are negotiating for a new tyre deal even the possibility, however remote, of Rossi's not competing in MotoGP is a pretty big stick!
Finally Michelin wasn't Rossi's employer. I'm thinking Yamaha was happy to see Rossi fighting for what he needed to better his and his team's situation.
Vale had a contract wth Ferrari to decide with them for F1.. too much politics and Montezemelo advised him not to (as he had a bitter fight with Schumi and Todt) so that Kimi could join in 07.
Edit
Here is the content
"During the 2005 season Montezemolo decided he didn’t want Valentino Rossi even though he had a firm option to join the team. He persuaded Rossi not to take it up and stay in MotoGP. This decision upset Schumacher who could see what it meant. Rossi had had a programme mapped out to familiarise himself with the car prior to a 2007 debut. Schumacher
said at the time: “We are sad not to see him here. I think he has a very high talent
and could have done it in terms of driving.” Ross Brawn, the Ferrari technical director and a strong Todt-Schumacher ally was also upset and said: “We were very impressed with what he was able to do. It would have been very exciting. He was very impressive in all the running we did, otherwise we wouldn’t have taken him so seriously. It would have been a nice challenge to have. It’s a shame.”
Article Link
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Sep 10 2008, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Firstly, at no point in the past 3 races where Casey has crashed has Valentino been more than 3 seconds down on him. No need to fabricate facts.
No need to put words in my mouth. I never said anything about gaps at the time of the crash.
No need to put words in my mouth. I never said anything about gaps at the time of the crash.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 11 2008, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When has Rossi hung 1-5 seconds back and waited for his opponent to crash? If that's vintage Rossi you can have it.
Classic
And how many races did Hayden win in 2006? I am guessing that it might be less than the number that Rossi has won in the last three rounds of the season?
If that's classic Hayden - you can keep it!
Classic
And how many races did Hayden win in 2006? I am guessing that it might be less than the number that Rossi has won in the last three rounds of the season?
If that's classic Hayden - you can keep it!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Sep 11 2008, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And how many races did Hayden win in 2006? I am guessing that it might be less than the number that Rossi has won in the last three rounds of the season?
If that's classic Hayden - you can keep it!
2006 all over again?
You're too generous. I would love to have that.
I'll say it again, it doesn't say anywhere in my post that Rossi was 5 seconds back at the time of the crash. It does state that Rossi was up to 5 seconds behind while waiting for a crash.
If that's classic Hayden - you can keep it!
2006 all over again?
You're too generous. I would love to have that.
I'll say it again, it doesn't say anywhere in my post that Rossi was 5 seconds back at the time of the crash. It does state that Rossi was up to 5 seconds behind while waiting for a crash.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 11 2008, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2006 all over again?
You're too generous. I would love to have that.
I'll say it again, it doesn't say anywhere in my post that Rossi was 5 seconds back at the time of the crash. It does state that Rossi was up to 5 seconds behind while waiting for a crash.
From the wording of your post; I took it to mean that you were not impressed with Rossi's performances so far this year in amassing his championship lead - despite one of the best races in recent memory at Laguna
However you were impressed that Hayden won a championship and if memory serves, only won two races in the process
Would you be impressed with this season if it was Hayden that had benefited from Stoner's trips to the gravel trap and was leading the championship?
You're too generous. I would love to have that.
I'll say it again, it doesn't say anywhere in my post that Rossi was 5 seconds back at the time of the crash. It does state that Rossi was up to 5 seconds behind while waiting for a crash.
From the wording of your post; I took it to mean that you were not impressed with Rossi's performances so far this year in amassing his championship lead - despite one of the best races in recent memory at Laguna
However you were impressed that Hayden won a championship and if memory serves, only won two races in the process
Would you be impressed with this season if it was Hayden that had benefited from Stoner's trips to the gravel trap and was leading the championship?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Sep 11 2008, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From the wording of your post; I took it to mean that you were not impressed with Rossi's performances so far this year in amassing his championship lead - despite one of the best races in recent memory at Laguna
However you were impressed that Hayden won a championship and if memory serves, only won two races in the process
Would you be impressed with this season if it was Hayden that had benefited from Stoner's trips to the gravel trap and was leading the championship?
My understanding is that Lex feels "vintage Rossi" is more dominant, and more impressive than his current form rather than suggesting that Rossi's current performance is less impressive than that of other racers.
However you were impressed that Hayden won a championship and if memory serves, only won two races in the process
Would you be impressed with this season if it was Hayden that had benefited from Stoner's trips to the gravel trap and was leading the championship?
My understanding is that Lex feels "vintage Rossi" is more dominant, and more impressive than his current form rather than suggesting that Rossi's current performance is less impressive than that of other racers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Sep 11 2008, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From the wording of your post; I took it to mean that you were not impressed with Rossi's performances so far this year in amassing his championship lead - despite one of the best races in recent memory at Laguna
However you were impressed that Hayden won a championship and if memory serves, only won two races in the process
Would you be impressed with this season if it was Hayden that had benefited from Stoner's trips to the gravel trap and was leading the championship?
I see you only have 12 posts so you probably aren't familiar with my feelings about this season.
I believe vintage Rossi is a man who wins without lobbying the governing body for help. His greatness and graciousness have always been able to encourage other people to work with him.
During the 2007 season, Rossi had many Biaggi-esque tantrums and I think that caused fewer people to want to work with him, Bridgestone in particular. Bridgestone already had a champ and a championship winning manufacturer at the end of 2007, for once Rossi had no pull.
I believe he used the only ace up his sleeve (leaving the sport) to use Ezy to make Bridgestone comply.
On top of that I think there is an abundance of circumstantial evidence to suggest there were significant changes to the tire rules perhaps even an experimental control tire stint that allowed Rossi to have substantial advantage over Stoner at the beginning of the season.
I think Mugello and Laguna were Rossi at his best. This season has been far from the Rossi of old. This is the new Rossi who wins championships by historical entitlement.
He could easily have gone to Suzuki, Kawasaki, or even Ducati with a simple breach of contract, but he didn't. He threw a fit and lobbied Ezy to get what he wanted. Then he rode around in circles, playing the hero while frequently riding a country mile behind the young kid who the governing body really can't afford to have win a second title.
Disgraceful.
However you were impressed that Hayden won a championship and if memory serves, only won two races in the process
Would you be impressed with this season if it was Hayden that had benefited from Stoner's trips to the gravel trap and was leading the championship?
I see you only have 12 posts so you probably aren't familiar with my feelings about this season.
I believe vintage Rossi is a man who wins without lobbying the governing body for help. His greatness and graciousness have always been able to encourage other people to work with him.
During the 2007 season, Rossi had many Biaggi-esque tantrums and I think that caused fewer people to want to work with him, Bridgestone in particular. Bridgestone already had a champ and a championship winning manufacturer at the end of 2007, for once Rossi had no pull.
I believe he used the only ace up his sleeve (leaving the sport) to use Ezy to make Bridgestone comply.
On top of that I think there is an abundance of circumstantial evidence to suggest there were significant changes to the tire rules perhaps even an experimental control tire stint that allowed Rossi to have substantial advantage over Stoner at the beginning of the season.
I think Mugello and Laguna were Rossi at his best. This season has been far from the Rossi of old. This is the new Rossi who wins championships by historical entitlement.
He could easily have gone to Suzuki, Kawasaki, or even Ducati with a simple breach of contract, but he didn't. He threw a fit and lobbied Ezy to get what he wanted. Then he rode around in circles, playing the hero while frequently riding a country mile behind the young kid who the governing body really can't afford to have win a second title.
Disgraceful.
Joined May 2006
4K Posts | 2+
Mts-7
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Sep 11 2008, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Given it up as a bad game mate!
I'm interested in "Motorcycle Racer" with Mert Lawwill for my dad. Do you have any left??
I'm interested in "Motorcycle Racer" with Mert Lawwill for my dad. Do you have any left??
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Sep 11 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
I'm interested in "Motorcycle Racer" with Mert Lawwill for my dad. Do you have any left??
Yes mate, I still have prints in stock. But I haven't picked up a brush this year.
BUT..............if you really want to treat the old boy, I've just this evening listed this on Ebay....it's a bit special!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...E:IT&ih=024
I'm interested in "Motorcycle Racer" with Mert Lawwill for my dad. Do you have any left??
Yes mate, I still have prints in stock. But I haven't picked up a brush this year.
BUT..............if you really want to treat the old boy, I've just this evening listed this on Ebay....it's a bit special!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...E:IT&ih=024
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
