FINALLY CONFIRMED!! Ducati Welcome Lorenzo

michaelm · Apr 30, 2016

Keshav said:
But for me it ruined the race and brought the whole season to a horrendous conclusion.

You wanted Rossi to win the title though, while I was going for Lorenzo.

I was happy all season to give Rossi enormous credit if he did win the title at that stage in his career. However, even before the pre-Sepang press conferences I was annoyed by what was already out there, Rossi purportedly attempting to engineer only JL being allowed to race him late season, given he had built his lead with everyone trying to beat Jorge.

yamfan · May 1, 2016

Many comparisons have been made to Marquez's riding at Sepang and Rossi's riding at Motegi in 2010.
For me the biggest difference is that Marquez raced hard, but each pass was clean and at no point did he seek to make contact.
Rossi however in 2010 made several moves on Lorenzo that sought to run him off track and the one under the bridge was particularly nasty as he drew alongside and deliberately slammed into his side. The only reason for his actions can only be construed that he sought to injure Lorenzo in order to try and rescue the title from a seemingly unassailable points deficit.
His actions that day were so bad that his own team and management were incensed with him, roundly condemning his actions and warning him not to repeat it against his own team mate.
Put this into context and it's clear that Rossi has no cause for complaint about Marquez's actions, particularly given Rossi poked the hornet's nest by insulting him in the manner he did, using the press as a weapon worldwide. This even upset Marquez's mother. What man wouldn't react when someone upsets their mum?

danski · May 1, 2016

That Rossi sought to injure Lorenzo to rescue the title is pure fantasy, his points deficit was unassailable as he had much of the season out with a broken leg. He was trying to regain his team status more likely.

yamfan · May 1, 2016

Daniboy said:
That Rossi sought to injure Lorenzo to rescue the title is pure fantasy, his points deficit was unassailable as he had much of the season out with a broken leg. He was trying to regain his team status more likely.

By running his team mate off track?
I'd argue that there's more substance to my statement than your instant dismissal that it's pure fantasy. It could be argued that Rossi's claims about Marquez are pure fantasy buddy.

danski · May 1, 2016

The title battle was between Dani and Jorge , Dani was out with injury and was the only person who could have possibly caught Jorge in points. It was a war of pride between the two of them.

michaelm · May 1, 2016

Daniboy said:
That Rossi sought to injure Lorenzo to rescue the title is pure fantasy, his points deficit was unassailable as he had much of the season out with a broken leg. He was trying to regain his team status more likely.

I think the last sentence is the answer. But it was still a fairly analogous situation, and there is no such thing as an unassailable lead, or Mick Doohan might have 6 or 7 titles rather than 5 as we speak.

Barbedwirebikerr · May 1, 2016

michaelm said:
there is no such thing as an unassailable lead

That is just not so. Often championships are wrapped up before the final race. In that instance; the leader has an unassailable lead.

michaelm · May 1, 2016

Barbedwirebikerr said:
That is just not so. Often championships are wrapped up before the final race. In that instance; the leader has an unassailable lead.

Absolutely, and of course, but that is a different matter of the title having actually been clinched. This was not the case with Jorge at Motegi 2010, or with Mick Doohan at Assen in 1992; both had points leads which it was inconceivable could be lost as a result of being beaten in future races, but season changing or even career ending injuries can happen on any given race week-end as did occur and almost occurred at Assen 1992. Mick still could have won the title by scoring 4 more points on his return to race on one leg for the last 2 races; I don't recall any entreaties for riders other than Wayne Rainey not to race him either.

Keshav · May 1, 2016

povol said:
How else would you do it, society has deemed it barbaric to actually settle things like men. I would much rather have seen Marquez kick the .... out of Rossi, but we dont seem to be able to handle that anymore. As far as Honda and the constructors cup, that was done and dusted by Sepang.

Well - I hardly see myself as "Polite Society" and certainly not politically correct; that said I don't go 'round .....-slapping people who are verbally abusive. I'm no great intellectual either - but I try (when I have the presence of mind) to return verbal abuse by having a pithy retort - or not letting someone who's either stupid or insane get under my skin. I'm a great believer in the saying that, Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

If I'd been writing the script, Marquez's response would have consisted of rolling his eyes at Rossi's foolish ravings, laughing in his face and leaving him in the dust at every race.

When I was in Vietnam - a guy at motorcycle repair shop said to me, when a foreigner loses his temper and blows his stack at one of the locals, he has at best, lost the game; we consider someone who resorts to violence over an insult, as having lost his mind.

Getting into fist fights over insults is something I did as a teenager. I've got the results of multiple broken noses to prove it. So I make no claims of being Gandhi Jr. But yeah.... I don't think Marquez kicking Vale's ... would have been a useful response. The boppers would have rioted, and forum members would be crowing over how Rossi had mind-...... Marquez into doing something stupid.

danski · May 1, 2016

Barbedwirebikerr said:
That is just not so. Often championships are wrapped up before the final race. In that instance; the leader has an unassailable lead.

Correct, I think in 2010 Lorenzo won the title in Sepang with a third place, 3 races to go .

michaelm · May 1, 2016

Daniboy said:
Correct, I think in 2010 Lorenzo won the title in Sepang with a third place, 3 races to go .

Which was the race after Motegi.

michaelm · May 1, 2016

Keshav said:
Well - I hardly see myself as "Polite Society" and certainly not politically correct; that said I don't go 'round .....-slapping people who are verbally abusive. I'm no great intellectual either - but I try (when I have the presence of mind) to return verbal abuse by having a pithy retort - or not letting someone who's either stupid or insane get under my skin. I'm a great believer in the saying that, Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

If I'd been writing the script, Marquez's response would have consisted of rolling his eyes at Rossi's foolish ravings, laughing in his face and leaving him in the dust at every race.

When I was in Vietnam - a guy at motorcycle repair shop said to me, when a foreigner loses his temper and blows his stack at one of the locals, he has at best, lost the game; we consider someone who resorts to violence over an insult, as having lost his mind.

Getting into fist fights over insults is something I did as a teenager. I've got the results of multiple broken noses to prove it. So I make no claims of being Gandhi Jr. But yeah.... I don't think Marquez kicking Vale's ... would have been a useful response. The boppers would have rioted, and forum members would be crowing over how Rossi had mind-...... Marquez into doing something stupid.

Again, what MM chose to do was none of these things, but instead to race him legally for position at Sepang.

Rossi could have circumvented any influence from MM at Sepang by being fast enough to keep Lorenzo, whom he out-qualified, behind him, not being able to do so early in dry races last year was a tactical weakness which he seems to be attempting to address this year.

danski · May 1, 2016

michaelm said:
Which was the race after Motegi.

And Estoril was the penultimate race , Yamaha won the other two championships there , I always wanted to visit that track and they took it off the calendar .

danski · May 1, 2016

michaelm said:
Again, what MM chose to do was none of these things, but instead to race him legally for position at Sepang.

Rossi could have circumvented any influence from MM at Sepang by being fast enough to keep Lorenzo, whom he out-qualified, behind him, not being able to do so early in dry races last year was a tactical weakness which he seems to be attempting to address this year.

The tyres and electronics are no doubt helping there, the Bridgestone tyres were known for taking a big leap of faith to make a good lap time from the off, Rossi couldn't use that. The Michelins have less performance and he's more comfortable on them early on.

Keshav · May 1, 2016

michaelm said:
Again, what MM chose to do was none of these things, but instead to race him legally for position at Sepang.

Rossi could have circumvented any influence from MM at Sepang by being fast enough to keep Lorenzo, whom he out-qualified, behind him, not being able to do so early in dry races last year was a tactical weakness which he seems to be attempting to address this year.

Read Pov's response. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed he clearly was saying that the manner in which MM rode was revenge that was acceptable in contrast to kicking Vale's ... in the paddock which would be considered barbaric. It was to that which I responded.

I think you and I have adequately covered the topic of the legality of MM's maneuvering that day and subsequently - the inability of all - to read his mind, and the range of biases that lead different folks to different conclusions.

yamfan · May 1, 2016

Keshav said:
Read Pov's response. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed he clearly was saying that the manner in which MM rode was revenge that was acceptable in contrast to kicking Vale's ... in the paddock which would be considered barbaric. It was to that which I responded.

I think you and I have adequately covered the topic of the legality of MM's maneuvering that day and subsequently - the inability of all - to read his mind, and the range of biases that lead different folks to different conclusions.

For a Dani fan, your bias certainly swings towards the yellow sector buddy.
While admitting I got the points situation muddled, I maintain Rossi would've been happy to put Lorenzo out of the race by any means, such was the animosity at Lorenzo's humbling him on the same bike. A record points haul was on the cards, in fact it stands even today.

danski · May 1, 2016

yamfan said:
For a Dani fan, your bias certainly swings towards the yellow sector buddy.
While admitting I got the points situation muddled, I maintain Rossi would've been happy to put Lorenzo out of the race by any means, such was the animosity at Lorenzo's humbling him on the same bike. A record points haul was on the cards, in fact it stands even today.

I'm a Moto GP fan first and foremost, and more than seeing Vale win a tenth title I'd like to see Dani win one.

povol · May 1, 2016

Keshav said:
Read Pov's response. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed he clearly was saying that the manner in which MM rode was revenge that was acceptable in contrast to kicking Vale's ... in the paddock which would be considered barbaric. It was to that which I responded.

I think you and I have adequately covered the topic of the legality of MM's maneuvering that day and subsequently - the inability of all - to read his mind, and the range of biases that lead different folks to different conclusions.

Even in today's mamby pamby society, a good old fashioned ... kicking is sometimes in order, if anyone deserved a good ... kicking , it is Rossi.

michaelm · May 1, 2016

Keshav;ead Pov's response. He can correct me if I'm wrong said:
Actually you challenged me to rebut a post I hadn't seen, which I did. We have had no further discussion, which is why I saw fit to reply to a further post in which you made much the same arguments.

Keshav · May 1, 2016

michaelm said:
Actually you challenged me to rebut a post I hadn't seen, which I did. We have had no further discussion, which is why I saw fit to reply to a further post in which you made much the same arguments.

Challenged? I was genuine in requesting a reply. And I did so with respect and good humor. Wasn't asking you to defend your thoughts, but rather to see if we could disagree and still find some common ground of objective reason where we could meet in the middle. You Arrib, Curve, Austin and No are five people who I would never try to pin down in a gotcha moment.

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