FINALLY CONFIRMED!! Ducati Welcome Lorenzo

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WVMotoGP99 said:
But aren't both of the statements facts and true? He is younger and the bike is better?

The facts might work in his favor, but they are still the facts and he stated them as such.
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I hear you brother, but to me it doesn't sound honest, but rather contrived. Rossi is known for making such statements for effect.

This statement is also true:

"It takes big balls to go to Ducati..." Rossi.

Was there an intended message? Absolutely.

Rossi was older. Interesting fact. Relevance? Oh yeah, I'm supposed to think...well no wonder Lorenzo will be more successful, poor old Rossi.

The bike is better. Is it? The bike Rossi rode won 3 races, was on the podium the day Rossi threw a leg over it. He struggled to crack the top 10. So Rossi says the bike is better, is their an intended message? Not dissimilar to "It takes big balls to go to Ducati....". What do you think was the intended message? Curious question: do you think that was just a "straight up and honest" statement?

You can bet Rossi knew this question would be asked, and you can be sure his answer wasn't off the cuff. He thought about his answer yesterday.

What's funny too is that Rossi saying "It takes big balls to go to Ducati...." is a contradiction to his now supposed honest assessment that the Ducati now so great. Think of it like this, would Rossi say to Viñalez, it takes big balls to go to Yamaha?
 
baturro said:
Yeah, he is younger. But the bike better? Sort of debatable. Stoner had some wins on it. No one has won on the current Duc.



Rossi and Burges were also going to "fix" it. Definitely failed at that...
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I think if you poll 100 non- bias knowledgable GP folks, 97 will say the Duc has improved with what's his face taking over a couple years back.

If you could find 100 non-bias folks...
 
I'm pretty level headed and non biased. I've also been on the new Duc as much as Rossi has. .... all nothing. Therefore could not say what bike is better than the next. The guy on it with the Balls dictates how the Duc will ride.

Stoner= Big balls
Rossi= Itty bitty balls
Lorenzo= We will find out
 
Jumkie said:
I hear you brother, but to me it doesn't sound honest, but rather contrived. Rossi is known for making such statements for effect.

This statement is also true:

"It takes big balls to go to Ducati..." Rossi.

Was there an intended message? Absolutely.

Rossi was older. Interesting fact. Relevance? Oh yeah, I'm supposed to think...well no wonder Lorenzo will be more successful, poor old Rossi.

The bike is better. Is it? The bike Rossi rode won 3 races, was on the podium the day Rossi threw a leg over it. He struggled to crack the top 10. So Rossi says the bike is better, is their an intended message? Not dissimilar to "It takes big balls to go to Ducati....". What do you think was the intended message? Curious question: do you think that was just a "straight up and honest" statement?

You can bet Rossi knew this question would be asked, and you can be sure his answer wasn't off the cuff. He thought about his answer yesterday.

What's funny too is that Rossi saying "It takes big balls to go to Ducati...." is a contradiction to his now supposed honest assessment that the Ducati now so great. Think of it like this, would Rossi say to Viñalez, it takes big balls to go to Yamaha?
Click to expand...



I only read the statement, so I took it for as it read. Did not see the entire presser.

I am also sure Rossi pointed out both facts as a small "cover my butt" comment for when JLo wins next year he can go, see I told you so. I told you he was going to be competitive.
 
WVMotoGP99 said:
I only read the statement, so I took it for as it read. Did not see the entire presser.

I am also sure Rossi pointed out both facts as a small "cover my butt" comment for when JLo wins next year he can go, see I told you so. I told you he was going to be competitive.
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I was just thinking, this is the same guy that came to a press conference in Sepang with an agenda he contrived in advance. He already new his answer as much as he knew he would be asked it.

Isn't it interesting that Rossi could be so chatty with honest 'facts'; yet he "knew nothing" about the disrespectful jeering?

Brother, in the words of Michael Scott, respected GP journalist, "Rossi is ruthless." He was referring to Rossi's ability to disseminate message through the media for its effect on the fandom.



Edit: I think you may have read it the way you might have said it, because you're an honest guy. We have a tendency of reading and believing what people say. I think it's a reflection of your character. But when I think about all the stuff Rossi has said throughout the years when it was related to a specific drama, he has always been very contrived. Do you remember the interview he had with his father? It was a mock interview. But it was his way of disseminating a particular message. This is the same Rossi of Sepang, Valencia, and frankly worse today.
 
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Jumkie said:
I was just thinking, this is the same guy that came to a press conference in Sepang with an agenda he contrived in advance. He already new his answer as much as he knew he would be asked it.

Isn't it interesting that Rossi could be so chatty with honest 'facts'; yet he "knew nothing" about the disrespectful jeering?

Brother, in the words of Michael Scott, respected GP journalist, "Rossi is ruthless." He was referring to Rossi's ability to disseminate message through the media for its effect on the fandom.



Edit: I think you may have read it the way you might have said it, because you're an honest guy. We have a tendency of reading and believing what people say. I think it's a reflection of your character. But when I think about all the stuff Rossi has said throughout the years when it was related to a specific drama, he has always been very contrived. Do you remember the interview he had with his father? It was a mock interview. But it was his way of disseminating a particular message. This is the same Rossi of Sepang, Valencia, and frankly worse today.
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I could have been giving him the benefit of the doubt I guess.

I think George's move makes him happy, but he also knows JLo is (IMO) going to have better luck on the Duc, so he was throwing out why he is going to have better luck. Two birds, one stone thing.
 
Rossi can't lose here with what he says.

If Lorenzo does well, he'll be crowing at every press conference, "Ah but see Jorge only had this bike because I suffered through two years and told Ducati exactly what they needed to do to fix the bike. It took them 3 years after I leave to finally do this. Once again Jorge needed me to give input to have a good bike like here at Yamaha."

If Lorenzo does badly then he'll be reminding everyone, "Ah, but see I had these problems at Ducati too. I warned Jorge of what might happen to be on a bike that is not competitive for 2 years, but he thought he would do more than me. I'm sure Jorge would like to come back to Yamaha when I retire. Maybe this happens, maybe it doesn't."
 
WVMotoGP99 said:
I could have been giving him the benefit of the doubt I guess.

I think George's move makes him happy, but he also knows JLo is (IMO) going to have better luck on the Duc, so he was throwing out why he is going to have better luck. Two birds, one stone thing.
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You can bet that the media will disseminate and the fandom will echo the message Rossi provided them--that he took on an awful bike and was responsible for its "improvement." However, these were Stoner's thoughts about Rossi in this, regard back in 2012, when it was all fresh in our minds:


"They ate their words from day one,"

"Jerry saying that it would take him 80 seconds to fix that bike and that it was a simple issue and now they have had almost two years and have not made any inroads."

"Valentino obviously doesn't want to push limits and ride a bike that is not perfect, he has admitted that."

"Obviously he doesn't want to put the effort in with Ducati."

The 2016 revision by Rossi, with the help of Mat Oxley, Julian Ryder, and other will be forthcoming.
 
Jumkie said:
"Valentino obviously doesn't want to push limits and ride a bike that is not perfect, he has admitted that."
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This quote is precisely why I don't think Rossi should ever be considered the GOAT or whatever other happy ........ comes to mind.

You cannot be considered great as a racer if you are unwilling to do such thing.

I do wonder if that had something to do with being given preferred winner status and the equipment that went with that. He never had to push in his premier class career at a rate that would have helped him when he went to Ducati. Plus maybe that's really the key to his general lack of crashing in his career...he's never been one to push...but he didn't need to given all the advantages he had at hand. Hard to crash if you never need to ride up against the limits of what the bike can do.
 
JPSLotus said:
This quote is precisely why I don't think Rossi should ever be considered the GOAT or whatever other happy ........ comes to mind.

You cannot be considered great as a racer if you are unwilling to do such thing.

I do wonder if that had something to do with being given preferred winner status and the equipment that went with that. He never had to push in his premier class career at a rate that would have helped him when he went to Ducati. Plus maybe that's really the key to his general lack of crashing in his career...he's never been one to push...but he didn't need to given all the advantages he had at hand. Hard to crash if you never need to ride up against the limits of what the bike can do.
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Are you ....... serious, every race we heard "i poosh veddy haad" and get win.You can accuse Rossi of many things, but not pooshing isnt one of them:D
 
I did notice he did spend a lot of time looking down at the piece of paper to his right. I would imagine some of the answers were right there.
 
OMG Lotus, you are a monster. I don't think even YOU believe the utter ........ that spews form your bitter mouth.
 
baturro said:
I'm pretty level headed and non biased. I've also been on the new Duc as much as Rossi has. .... all nothing. Therefore could not say what bike is better than the next. The guy on it with the Balls dictates how the Duc will ride.

Stoner= Big balls
Rossi= Itty bitty balls
Lorenzo= We will find out
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Lorenzo= metronomic precision

My uninformed feeling is that the Duc is ok for that now. What do the experts think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ducati (and Audi) wanted a top rider for next year, since after testing with Stoner they had no doubts left that the bike is really competitive. They insisted as much as possible with Stoner first, but he wouldn't commit to more than a wildcard. Hmm.

So they had to look for someone else, and quickly. Marquez is a jealously guarded Honda-Repsol property, so he is out of the question at least for the the next two-three years. Rossi and Pedrosa were out of the question a priori, for one thousand reasons each.

That left Ducati with only one choice really: Lorenzo, -- or some really promising young talent like Vinales. But Audi preferred a big name, and Dall'Igna and Lorenzo had maintained a great relationship since their Aprilia days. Lorenzo was also known to be unhappy in the same team with Rossi. They are treated equally but make no mistake, Lorenzo wants to be the undisputed #1 in a team, as much as Rossi. So there was a real chance, and it happened.

Now the big question is, will the Desmosedici suit Lorenzo's smooth riding style? The Ducati is more similar to the Honda, just as the Suzuki is designed after the Yamaha. So there can be doubts. But Dall'Igna knows Lorenzo's characteristics really well, and he also knows his bike. He's evidently confident that it can be adjusted to Lorenzo's style, and also trusts that Lorenzo can adjust a little his style to the bike.

One could think that Dovi and Lorenzo both ride in the same 250 style, but not really: Dovi is a heavy braker, Lorenzo is not. Interestingly, Dovi initially complained that the new Ducati is difficult to stop the way he likes. After a lot of experimenting with setup changes, he finally seems to have found a way to ride it the way he likes, but one can't help thinking that Dall'Igna -- consciously or subconsciously -- could have designed the new Ducati with certain riding characteristics in mind.

Whatever the case, he knows that if Ducati fails to win with Jorge Lorenzo, he will be the scapegoat just as Preziosi was with Rossi. He's betting his entire career on Lorenzo.
 
:cool:
J4rn0 said:
Ducati (and Audi) wanted a top rider for next year, since after testing with Stoner they had no doubts left that the bike is really competitive. They insisted as much as possible with Stoner first, but he wouldn't commit to more than a wildcard. Hmm.

So they had to look for someone else, and quickly. Marquez is a jealously guarded Honda-Repsol property, so he is out of the question at least for the the next two-three years. Rossi and Pedrosa were out of the question a priori, for one thousand reasons each.

That left Ducati with only one choice really: Lorenzo, -- or some really promising young talent like Vinales. But Audi preferred a big name, and Dall'Igna and Lorenzo had maintained a great relationship since their Aprilia days. Lorenzo was also known to be unhappy in the same team with Rossi. They are treated equally but make no mistake, Lorenzo wants to be the undisputed #1 in a team, as much as Rossi. So there was a real chance, and it happened.

Now the big question is, will the Desmosedici suit Lorenzo's smooth riding style? The Ducati is more similar to the Honda, just as the Suzuki is designed after the Yamaha. So there can be doubts. But Dall'Igna knows Lorenzo's characteristics really well, and he also knows his bike. He's evidently confident that it can be adjusted to Lorenzo's style, and also trusts that Lorenzo can adjust a little his style to the bike.

One could think that Dovi and Lorenzo both ride in the same 250 style, but not really: Dovi is a heavy braker, Lorenzo is not. Interestingly, Dovi initially complained that the new Ducati is difficult to stop the way he likes. After a lot of experimenting with setup changes, he finally seems to have found a way to ride it the way he likes, but one can't help thinking that Dall'Igna -- consciously or subconsciously -- could have designed the new Ducati with certain riding characteristics in mind.

Whatever the case, he knows that if Ducati fails to win with Jorge Lorenzo, he will be the scapegoat just as Preziosi was with Rossi. He's betting his entire career on Lorenzo.
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I am sure you are entirely correct about the Ducati side of things as you almost always are, and a previous regime tried to get Lorenzo there before eventually procuring Rossi as well.

Your version of events at Yamaha is rather more open to dispute imo, but I don't deny having prejudice myself, I am just differently prejudiced than you are. It is hard to see favouring a 37 year old rider who last won a title in 2009 over the defending world champion, and winner of their last 3 titles over the last 6 seasons, as a racing decision, and they very definitely backed Rossi over the events of last season whilst condemning Lorenzo to the extent of not acknowledging his title for not much more than a thumbs down gesture.

The proof will be in the pudding, but as I have said elsewhere it will imo require Rossi either winning a title during his remaining tenure or him successfully mentoring, and actively riding to aid, a Lorenzo replacement to a title to justify Yamaha's choices. As I have also said, I consider the latter to be even more unlikely than the former.
 
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michaelm said:
It is hard to see favouring a 37 year old rider who last won a title in 2009 over the defending world champion, and winner of their last 3 titles over the last 6 seasons, as a racing decision, and they very definitely backed Rossi over the events of last season whilst condemning Lorenzo to the extent of not acknowledging his title for not much more than a thumbs down gesture.

The proof will be in the pudding, but as I have said elsewhere it will imo require Rossi either winning a title during his remaining tenure or him successfully mentoring, and actively riding to aid, a Lorenzo replacement to a title to justify Yamaha's choices. As I have also said, I consider the latter to be even more unlikely than the former.
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Do your aspirations run so high that placing second in the greatest gp contest in the world counts for nothing?

And OF COURSE Lin is counting on Rossi falling into a mentorship role with young Vinales. Why has it taken you this long to realize that? Then when Rossi exits stage left, they will pluck and develop the next alien. You seemed like a smart fella but I dunno...
 

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