Factory 2-MotoGP's newest category

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I would lay blame at Carmelo's hind paws.  Everybody else can only lobby, he is 'The Decider'.  


 


(Yes, factories did 'shoot themselves on the foot; and restricted themselves by lobbying for less fuel.  Carmelo obliged the "cost saving" restrictions by codifying them into the rule book.  Then he changed it slightly two weeks ago.)

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Its what I like about you Pov, you keep me entertained.  I can see why you swallow Dorna's ........ rules whole, as you employ the same tactics of 'moving the goal posts".  Now revising your 'stand on principle' as you see fit to keep up with the times.  Look Pov, I'm not angry at you for remaining an avid fan of the sport even after your shallow protest that you were never going to honor.  Its clear we are both addicted to the sport, the difference is that I don't fool myself about it. I haven't stopped watching regardless of my awareness the outcomes are rigged by the regulations imposed.  I'm just saying at very least be honest about it and call the premiere class for what its become, a farce rather than carrying on like its all legit. Rather than revising your protest parameters every time I press you.  Pov, three categories in one, and four or five if you count the Honda proddies (hell the Ducs have their own shadow category) and the last residuals of CRTs (sitting in positions 19-23 after PF3) should be a recognized category too.  I see you qualified it by saying "new" rules, so the "old" (2 weeks ago) were credible then according to you.  The arbitrary rules (new and old) you love so much and use to justify your frowning over HRC (oops did you forget about that which you have repeated, no need for me to go searching for a quote) are the ones you consider legit.  We've had this conversation before Pov.  Your boycott was contingent on leaps forward in performance.  You think these arbitrary rules produce some absolute advancement of performance? These rules don't come from heaven like mana, yet you seem to think the arbitrary rules produce some devine pinnacle of achievement.  Newflash: these rules limit performance!  You don't get this do you. You seem to think they inherently create the ultimate performance.  This is the concept you keep missing, as the restrictions by design limit performance!  You are witnessing this reality on the track right now, but you don't detect or recognize it professor.  Why are the Open class prototypes challenging the Factory Option prototypes?  Its because the same prototypes have different arbitrary designations whereby some are restricted while the other is less restricted.  Do you understand the implications here?  Perhaps you hadn't realized it before, but for godsakes try and analyze what accounts for the performance on the track.  


 


Anyway Pov, I know you will never admit it and keep weaseling you way out of your ridiculous boycott, but if performance is your litmus test (at one time you said technology, but I guess you have taken Dorna's lead and changed your latest parameter) here is a fun fact. The best lap at the season opener was attained back in 2008, as was the circuit record. So you have failed to honor your boycott: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 to present; since the performance has not yet set a new record.  You see the predicament you put yourself in professor?  Lorenzo who set the best lap in 2008 is today circulating slower, this is a leap backwards professor.  Unless the records have been broken at every circuit at the latest possible occasion within reasonable conditions, then you have accepted a leap backward in performance professor.  It was not a leap forward as your boycott perimeters demand!


 


Oh, come on, I know you will redefine the parameters just like Dorna, you will need to expand the definitions of "leap forward" and "performance" etc., so you can commence weaseling, moving the goalposts, rationalizing, justifying your new stand on principle below:

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Race lap records have been shattered since 08, i dont expect qualifying records to fall without qualifiers, even though it has happened. My stance on the boycott is in writing for anyone who cares to look it up. I see you ignored my request to show where i   approved of these regs or any other set of regulations. I was against control tires, i was against engine limits, and im against limited fuel. Im just not an incessant whiner when i dont get what i want. If my protest falls on deaf ears, i go about making the best of the situation Everyone knows that im all about the advancement of performance, without it, racing means nothing to me.

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Up to now, performance has undeniably advanced on a regular basis <span style="font-size:14px;but that will soon be coming to an end, as will my trips to the race track when it happens.

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Race lap records have been shattered since 08, i dont expect qualifying records to fall without qualifiers, even though it has happened. My stance on the boycott is in writing for anyone who cares to look it up. I see you ignored my request to show where i   approved of these regs or any other set of regulations. I was against control tires, i was against engine limits, and im against limited fuel. Im just not an incessant whiner when i dont get what i want. If my protest falls on deaf ears, i go about making the best of the situation Everyone knows that im all about the advancement of performance, without it, racing means nothing to me. Up to now, performance has undeniably advanced on a regular basis but that will soon be coming to an end, as will my trips to the race track when it happens.

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We are NOT witnessing CRTs vs Factory prototypes of old, we are witnessing: Factory Prototypes (restricted) vs Factory Prototypes (unrestricted).  The assumption that the Marelli standard ECU is unsophisticated was based on a faulty supposition.  The top 15 bikes today (with the exception of Nicky Hayden's butt slow production racer) were ALL Factory Prototype machines!  Aleix is basically on an M1 minus restrictions, so I'm supposed to be impressed that he is beating other M1s choked with restrictions, not to mention 3 days of testing? Make no mistake, the extra fuel is having its effect!

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Race lap records have been shattered since 08, i dont expect qualifying records to fall without qualifiers, even though it has happened. My stance on the boycott is in writing for anyone who cares to look it up. I see you ignored my request to show where i   approved of these regs or any other set of regulations. I was against control tires, i was against engine limits, and im against limited fuel. Im just not an incessant whiner when i dont get what i want. If my protest falls on deaf ears, i go about making the best of the situation Everyone knows that im all about the advancement of performance, without it, racing means nothing to me. Up to now, performance has undeniably advanced on a regular basis but that will soon be coming to an end, as will my trips to the race track when it happens.

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but you're not against displacement or induction limitations, which is interesting

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How long have you been watching? In the race thread you didn't seem to have to much faith in those those sophisticated bikes you need. I told you the factory bikes were gonna catch AE and they have. AE didn't come close to breaking the record yesterday because he's on an old M1 that's lacking all the technology you seem to need, he did it because he's on good tires and he 's riding like nobody's business.  A simple tire just made up for a lack of sophisticated electronics, quick shifting transmission, and a less powerful engine. How do you know they won't take another 20-30lbs off the bikes in the future or change some other technical rule? I'd think that a constantly changing rule book to improve performance like it's done would be something you'd like. So when can we expect you to leave, 2016 or 2017?

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Says who ? I am also on record as being an advocate of a run what you brung prototype series

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Oh, you want true Formula Libre. Unlimited tire. Unlimited engine. Unlimited materials. No fuel regulations.


 


You could probably have that kind of formula, but not for $100 a ticket. I doubt the series would break track records routinely, since the riders wouldn't live long enough to find the performance limit.

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New Rules Work...

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Carmelo became the 'decider' when it was agreed that a single manufacturer can veto any rule (so MSMA can decide rules only unanimously) -- the consequence wasn't apparent at first, but that means Dorna just needs one factory on her side to decide what will pass and what not. Smart.


 


Then, regarding the Open 'advantage', Aleix Espargaro is a big part of it imho. He's riding an M1 chassis from 2012, an engine perhaps from the same year,  and all remaining parts (there are many) made custom by a very small engineering team with limited resources. Consider also that factory teams do not use fuel strategies during practice, so the fuel advantage will be visible only during actual races. The only thing he has is the sticky soft tire, but he's going fast even on the medium one. Kudos to him: he wasn't silverspoon-fed, always considered an outsider, and there he is kicking the ... of his more famous compatriots riding the super-duper-factory machines.

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rezonator636, on 27 Mar 2014 - 16:07, said:


I'm pretty sure that's exactly his argument.

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Bsnell said:

.... me Jumkie, I haven't been here for 4 months and STILL you're writing diatribes of crap, are you employed sir? I'd never have time to write as much as you do, and for what? To try and massage your ego and prove some guy you've never met on the internet was 'wrong'..get a life man!

Ok so in your head Pov is a wanka and you called him out, Do you go to bed with a .... eating grin on your face because of that? If you want to make a living arguing the toss with people then go into politics.

That said, I do find it entertaining, bring on the popcorn!

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Bsnell said:

.... me Jumkie, I haven't been here for 4 months and STILL you're writing diatribes of crap, are you employed sir? I'd never have time to write as much as you do, and for what? To try and massage your ego and prove some guy you've never met on the internet was 'wrong'..get a life man!

Ok so in your head Pov is a wanka and you called him out, Do you go to bed with a .... eating grin on your face because of that? If you want to make a living arguing the toss with people then go into politics.

That said, I do find it entertaining, bring on the popcorn!

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