I know it's been discussed to death in the race thread, so feel free to tick boxes and not bother to type if you don't want to repeat yourself.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
The physical evidence (tyre marks on the forward part of Marco's fairing) show a very early contact that would have given Dani no time to react and no option but to crash.
Kamikaze pass by Simoncelli and punishment was warranted.
There is no element of this that could be seen as a good pass or even good racing
Kamikaze pass by Simoncelli and punishment was warranted.
There is no element of this that could be seen as a good pass or even good racing
Marco says his telemetry shows he brakes as normal, if Dani's shows he was slowing down at the usual rate also then i'd say he had literally nowhere to go, and Simoncelli cannot ride like that because he will cause accidents. However if Dani's telemetry shows he released the brakes or went deeper to fight it out with Marco then I would be more inclined to consider it an unfortuante racing incident where both riders commited to go somewhere there wasn't space to go.
My other thought is that i don't believe there would have been a penalty had this incident involved other riders. I know reputations can work against you but the incident has to be judged in isolation and i do not believe that the result would have been the same if that you replaced Marco with a more trusted and less controversial rider.
My other thought is that i don't believe there would have been a penalty had this incident involved other riders. I know reputations can work against you but the incident has to be judged in isolation and i do not believe that the result would have been the same if that you replaced Marco with a more trusted and less controversial rider.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Simoncelli definitely took Dani's nose off, and the penalty was not harsh enough. As long as riders are allowed to take out a fellow competitor, and continue on in a points-paying position, the race organizers are encouraging dangerous riding. Either black flag or investigate and DSQ after the race. I don't care which, but don't bring a rider through for a ride through and then pretend like justice has been done. Replace Pedrosa with Lorenzo, and HRC would paying Simoncelli to do this every race weekend.
Also, we have the whole Italians vs. Spaniards thing to worry about as well. Both countries and their business sectors vie for dominance in MotoGP. Italians seem to have made a habit of mugging Spanish riders, and I've not seen the issue addressed or even acknowledged by race direction.
Also, we have the whole Italians vs. Spaniards thing to worry about as well. Both countries and their business sectors vie for dominance in MotoGP. Italians seem to have made a habit of mugging Spanish riders, and I've not seen the issue addressed or even acknowledged by race direction.
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
correct they are allowing it
Rossi got away with it at jerez and kept his points
Sic boy took his chance today with a harsh move.?
got away with it and kept his points just a few less points than what he could have got
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
So you're saying if a rider comes off but his bike collects another rider, if the first rider continues he should be penalized?
What if the Australian commentators are right and Pedrosa hit a bump that simoncelli didn't pushing him a couple of meters Further into the corner when simoncelli would otherwise have been past him. In that situation sic would have been fine. Without knowing this for sure, a conclusion can't be made whether it was just dangerous or a racing incident.
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
well in this case of jerez imo
Rossi went for something that wasnt on and took stoner out.
rossi continued stoner was stuffed
i didnt mean a scenario as you suggest my bad
From the vid i saw dani hit the bump quite away from the corner, i don't think it effected his line but he may later tell a different story.
I thought the move was dangerous & not very smart.
Pedrosa had the inside line & it was his corner.
Sic should have yeilded & got him down the road.
It's Sic's moves around the outside that are getting him in trouble.
He had already made 2 nice clean passes on Lorenzo & Pedrosa earlier.
As for the penalty, I'm not sure what the correct call is, but those sort of moves cannot be allowed.
Some people have suggested Pedrosa stood the bike up & it caused the accident, but if you look at the slo mo replay, his right arm has been knocked off the bike by the aggressive pass.
He then had no chance to turn the bike in.
Pedrosa had the inside line & it was his corner.
Sic should have yeilded & got him down the road.
It's Sic's moves around the outside that are getting him in trouble.
He had already made 2 nice clean passes on Lorenzo & Pedrosa earlier.
As for the penalty, I'm not sure what the correct call is, but those sort of moves cannot be allowed.
Some people have suggested Pedrosa stood the bike up & it caused the accident, but if you look at the slo mo replay, his right arm has been knocked off the bike by the aggressive pass.
He then had no chance to turn the bike in.
First option for both. Simoncelli's moves have been dangerous so often that it was about time he got some sort of penalty for it.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
Firstly, excuse the large number of open tabs - in the process of booking our trip to WSBK at Portimao for the other half's birthday! (No HK hookers though!)
Screen caps from MotoGP footage which I think show that Simoncelli, whilst he should have been calmer and waited until later in the race, did not chop across Pedrosa's nose and did, as he maintained, give him at least a metre of track to play with. It was Pedrosa's fault he went in too hot to be able to make the corner, though I'm sure he did not expect Simoncelli to fight back on the outside, hence not allowing him the normal "escape" of running slightly wide on exit.
I think that, for this incident on its own (not implying that I think previous should be taken into account by race control BTW), Simoncelli should not have been penalised. Racing incident is what I call. However I do genuinely feel sorry for Pedrosa - will he ever manage a full season without injury?
Screen caps from MotoGP footage which I think show that Simoncelli, whilst he should have been calmer and waited until later in the race, did not chop across Pedrosa's nose and did, as he maintained, give him at least a metre of track to play with. It was Pedrosa's fault he went in too hot to be able to make the corner, though I'm sure he did not expect Simoncelli to fight back on the outside, hence not allowing him the normal "escape" of running slightly wide on exit.
I think that, for this incident on its own (not implying that I think previous should be taken into account by race control BTW), Simoncelli should not have been penalised. Racing incident is what I call. However I do genuinely feel sorry for Pedrosa - will he ever manage a full season without injury?
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
He didn't ride into him, he was already down when he took him out. Anyway, orff topic.
Pretty much my view, particularly about the penalty being due to recent controversy about marco. The move was no more ambitious than valentino's at jerez, and darryl beattie,who has won premier class races, said on australian tv as an ex-rider he was embarrassed by the penalty, and suggested bumpiness on the inside, where dani was, probably contributed to the collision. I can't recall a penalty like this in all the years I have watched, and I even wonder which rule applied.
I would never criticise a racer for immediately trying to re-pass, particularly since this is something dani has been universally criticised for not doing in the past, but marco appeared to have the pace on dani at the time, and perhaps he would have done better to tag on behind him as he did with lorenzo in the last race and wait to see if his tyres and/or fuel situation was better later in the race; marco may even have carried him up to stoner.
Terrible for dani; his unfortunate inability to bounce and propensity for significant injury, usually a fracture, every time he falls really is a major hindrance to him.
Rossi looks the major challenger to stoner now, I think he can continue to improve the ducati but lorenzo is in strife unless yamaha can find 20 or 30 hp from somewhere; at the moment he has to over-ride to stay in touch early.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Assuming Pedrosa was in control of the bike, you might be able to second guess his decision to stand it up. I hindsight, it didn't help. It looks (WFIW) that if he'd stayed leaned over, he just might have ridden it out. But from his point of view, he saw Sic carving down on him, tighter and tighter, closer and closer. With a fraction of a second to decide, Pedrosa opted to attempt to get the hell out of Sic's way.
Someone suggested that Pedrosa's arm got knocked off the bar and that he became a passenger shortly before impact. That would add a little more "random racing incident" to the recipe, and make it mighty hard to fault Peddles in any way.
None of this distracts from my view that if Sic had left another two or three feet, this incident never would have happened.
Assuming the officials found Sic guilty of ...... riding, I think a black flag would have been appropriate. The drive-through was pointless.
Personally, I'd like to see J-Lo, CS, Dovi, and all the others who are worried about Hairball give him a few dozen behind-the-garage 'presents.' The last present would be a proper hair cut by Pedrosa.
Someone suggested that Pedrosa's arm got knocked off the bar and that he became a passenger shortly before impact. That would add a little more "random racing incident" to the recipe, and make it mighty hard to fault Peddles in any way.
None of this distracts from my view that if Sic had left another two or three feet, this incident never would have happened.
Assuming the officials found Sic guilty of ...... riding, I think a black flag would have been appropriate. The drive-through was pointless.
Personally, I'd like to see J-Lo, CS, Dovi, and all the others who are worried about Hairball give him a few dozen behind-the-garage 'presents.' The last present would be a proper hair cut by Pedrosa.
To me your screen caps indicate the exact opposite of what you say. You have to consider that there was no way for Pedrosa to know that Simoncelli would overtake him on the outside. Pedrosa could have used that track inside of Simoncelli only if he would have known in advance he'd have to use such a very tight line and reduce the bike's speed accordingly. But he did not know it, and if you look at the on board camera from Pedrosa's bike at live speed there is no doubt, at least in my mind, there was absolutely no way for him to do anything to avoid collision. Most people who blame Pedrosa for not taking the track that Sic left don't realize it because they are watching screen caps or the replay from the outside at slowmo. The question is not whether or not was there a bit track left on the inside but rather was there a way to Pedrosa to use it in that particular moment? In my opinion the answer is no way.
I voted that i do think marco cut danis nose off, however that type of move happens alot.
Because of that i do think the accident was slightly more marcos fault than danis.
As for the penalty he was made an example of, I dont think anyone else would have got a ride through.
It wil be interesting to see if a precedent has been set if someone else gets away with something similar I think he has every right to be aggrieved.
Because of that i do think the accident was slightly more marcos fault than danis.
As for the penalty he was made an example of, I dont think anyone else would have got a ride through.
It wil be interesting to see if a precedent has been set if someone else gets away with something similar I think he has every right to be aggrieved.
