Engine restrictions ‘daunting’ says Jerry Burgess

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 25 2010, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pirelli SC1-2 & 3 Compounds
Ah, yeah thats right, I don't even think they bring that SC3 to Scandinavia, never warm enough. . I think I've seen it once in a endurance race But they are still just compound differences of the same race tire.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/motorcycle/t.../default.page#9

I presume that Diablo Supercorsa didn't need to be mentioned, my mistake.....

Michelin Power One Race, replaced Power Race, However power race is still available in some countries, and is still a far better Tyre than the 016.

GSfan disagreed that BS (BRIDGESTONE) 016 was an inferior Tyre to the ones I mentioned, and actually said that the 016 was a better Tyre in every way, hence the discussion.

If so I misunderstood as my impression was that he distinctly compared the BT-016 with the 2CT and not the other Michelins.
The two are as I wrote also the only ones possible to compare as they have the same market positioning. Besides, it's not true that that (Pilot?) Power Race and Power One Race are better tires in every way. They get less mileage and are probably ( a lot) worse in the wet compared to both 016 and 2CT and they are way less stable than the two others. On a dry track they give better grip and will therefore be faster in the hands of a competent rider but that is just about where the advantages stop. If that is the Pilot Power Race you talk about, it's also a true death trap for road use. It take some serious hard riding and high temperature before you can trust them and there are countless examples of riders that are seriously injured or even dead because of those tires and too little heat. I don't mean to directly blame the tires as it is the riders responsibility to know the tires and ride accordingly but they've taken too many by surprise unfortunately. In other words, for anything but track only that's defiantly the worst tires of the lot.

gsfan, interesting comments on 016 vs michelin pilot power 2ct

i know they are in a different category, but have you tried metzler racetecs ( not new interacts) and compare them with 016? i have the oem 016 on k9 1000 zuk(still running in , so not pushed) , but then they are apparently different from aftermarket 016- better/ worse/ same? had racetecs on k6 zuk1000-very very good. mind you thing will be in shed for 1-2mths now!

and your thoughts too please babelsan.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jan 25 2010, 02:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>gsfan, interesting comments on 016 vs michelin pilot power 2ct

i know they are in a different category, but have you tried metzler racetecs ( not new interacts) and compare them with 016? i have the oem 016 on k9 1000 zuk(still running in , so not pushed) , but then they are apparently different from aftermarket 016- better/ worse/ same? had racetecs on k6 zuk1000-very very good. mind you thing will be in shed for 1-2mths now!

racetecs ~ dragon supercorsa
Haven't checked but I think they have similar race/road markings as the Pirelli's and I know the race tires use the same SC1, SC2, SC3 markings with the same color code. There are differences but in general they are very much alike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 24 2010, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pirelli SC1-2 & 3 Compounds

http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/motorcycle/t.../default.page#9

I presume that Diablo Supercorsa didn't need to be mentioned, my mistake.....

Michelin Power One Race, replaced Power Race, However power race is still available in some countries, and is still a far better Tyre than the 016.

GSfan disagreed that BS (BRIDGESTONE) 016 was an inferior Tyre to the ones I mentioned, and actually said that the 016 was a better Tyre in every way, hence the discussion.

I also haven't tried the Michelin track tires I'm just comparing street tires on the street. The track tires from Michelin or any track tires would be far above my ability to assess.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jan 24 2010, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>gsfan, interesting comments on 016 vs michelin pilot power 2ct

i know they are in a different category, but have you tried metzler racetecs ( not new interacts) and compare them with 016? i have the oem 016 on k9 1000 zuk(still running in , so not pushed) , but then they are apparently different from aftermarket 016- better/ worse/ same? had racetecs on k6 zuk1000-very very good. mind you thing will be in shed for 1-2mths now!

I always try different tires. Like everyone else I am looking for extra whether I need it or not. When I wear out the Bridgestones I'll take your recommendation. I had Metzlers in the past and found them to be great rain tires also. But I am just so blown away by the BS BT's.

And speaking of bikes in the shed I'm looking at around April to get out this year. Last year was late May but this year we haven't had over 6" which has been fantastic. Today was 7C. To compare last year at this time was -20C.

Thing is kids different tyres/compounds suit different bikes, and even different set-ups (after-market fork springs or rear shock - even engine mods which affect power delivery). GSfan cannot be called out for finding a particular brand/compound which suits his unique ride and riding style and saying it gives better feel than his previous rubber... Tal-man your puffin' wind out yer corn-hole!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jan 16 2010, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I disagree. It's really a manufacturer and riders' championship. The tyre battle was never really principally important for MotoGP.

Once you take away the role of the manufacturer in building arguably the key aspect of a bike(the engine), then it fails to be prototype racing. The manufacturers, then, aren't really in a battle. The most important part of the bike isn't even designed by the manufacturers.

The tyres are easily the most important component of a motorcycle or car

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 29 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The tyres are easily the most important component of a motorcycle or car

......... I suspect this must be a troll(ish) trick post where you now are going to argue "how far does a bike go on it's own without tires" or some other childish statement but anyway:
There are no way to rate most important item, but tires are not even among the top ten when it comes to MotoGP. But tires are also a cheap consumables. In that way it is very different from the other factors usually counted in. In that way tires are more comparable to oil and gas. Neither of these are parts that the bike manufacturers, riders and fans want to be decisive factors in races unless it is strategic choices made by the team selecting the right item among a number of commonly available items. In that case it's not the tire that decides the outcome rather the strategy.
As it is now with a control tire we can safely say that tires play a very minor role. Just the way "we" wanted it and exactly why BS pulls out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 29 2010, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>......... I suspect this must be a troll(ish) trick post where you now are going to argue "how far does a bike go on it's own without tires" or some other childish statement but anyway:
There are no way to rate most important item, but tires are not even among the top ten when it comes to MotoGP. But tires are also a cheap consumables. In that way it is very different from the other factors usually counted in. In that way tires are more comparable to oil and gas. Neither of these are parts that the bike manufacturers, riders and fans want to be decisive factors in races unless it is strategic choices made by the team selecting the right item among a number of commonly available items. In that case it's not the tire that decides the outcome rather the strategy.
As it is now with a control tire we can safely say that tires play a very minor role. Just the way "we" wanted it and exactly why BS pulls out.

No no, i'm not playing games. Simply from a design perspective the tyres are the absolute limiting factor. Every aspect of design relies on the tyres that will be used as that is the only interaction between the vehicle and the surface, all the dynamics depend on the forces the tyres can transmit.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 30 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No no, i'm not playing games. Simply from a design perspective the tyres are the absolute limiting factor. Every aspect of design relies on the tyres that will be used as that is the only interaction between the vehicle and the surface, all the dynamics depend on the forces the tyres can transmit.
I agree. Much of Ducati's success came from engineering the Desmo around the 'stones; much of Suzuki's failure came from stubbornly trying to match a tyre to the bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Jan 26 2010, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thing is kids different tyres/compounds suit different bikes, and even different set-ups (after-market fork springs or rear shock - even engine mods which affect power delivery). GSfan cannot be called out for finding a particular brand/compound which suits his unique ride and riding style and saying it gives better feel than his previous rubber... Tal-man your puffin' wind out yer corn-hole!!!

He didn't mention that, it was something like, the 016's out-perform the other tyres in every way......even though I had mentioned rubber like, The Power One Race compounds (DOT approved for the Road) Dragon Supercorsas and similar compound Dunlop Rubber........

So your saying that, much harder, single compound BS 016's will outperform the worlds best race compound rubber available to the public for road use just because they suit the bike?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Jan 30 2010, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Much of Ducati's success came from engineering the Desmo around the 'stones; much of Suzuki's failure came from stubbornly trying to match a tyre to the bike.

Succinct and accurate beyond argument.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 30 2010, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He didn't mention that, it was something like, the 016's out-perform the other tyres in every way......even though I had mentioned rubber like, The Power One Race compounds (DOT approved for the Road) Dragon Supercorsas and similar compound Dunlop Rubber........

So your saying that, much harder, single compound BS 016's will outperform the worlds best race compound rubber available to the public for road use just because they suit the bike?

MickD is right. Tire choice is subjective so it is always going to be an opinion war and you will hate what I like because your bike is different. You have to very careful choosing tires and a track tire on the street may sound awesome but it will suck most of the time. You just won't get the heat in them that they need. Most of all your riding will be straight up. BTW in Canada BT016 come in multi-compound 3 band fronts and 5 band rears. I need soft tires because it doesn't really get super warm here for very long and I'm riding in low to mid twenty C. Most times lower. Track tires would be dangerous and not fun. My street tires would likely suck on the track. Too many variables.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jan 31 2010, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MickD is right. Tire choice is subjective so it is always going to be an opinion war and you will hate what I like because your bike is different. You have to very careful choosing tires and a track tire on the street may sound awesome but it will suck most of the time. You just won't get the heat in them that they need. Most of all your riding will be straight up. BTW in Canada BT016 come in multi-compound 3 band fronts and 5 band rears. I need soft tires because it doesn't really get super warm here for very long and I'm riding in low to mid twenty C. Most times lower. Track tires would be dangerous and not fun. My street tires would likely suck on the track. Too many variables.

Believe it or not but some track tires are excellent street tires. I use free/cheep used race tires, doing 10-15k each summer consuming 4-5 sets of used race tires. They are plenty good for some relaxed track days as well, as long as they are not pushed to the max. The rubber is soft and even if they are far from optimum grip they still are on par or better than sport touring tires. There is also lots of other positives. If a tire that gets squared off too much it's just swapped with a "new" one. Always round nice tires with plenty of rubber where you wear the tires on the street.

YMMV