Ducati GP9 Insight from Canepa

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>......... Its a race. You are whinging about the margin of the win ..... you want "closeness" .... watch that "anglo-roman wrestling" thats got a couple of blokes getting close with each other and swapping places

Was Usain Bolts runs in China a race? It was good to see the boring old record smashed in my book. Thats also what I like seeing in MGP.

In any case why do you bother to watch it if it ..... you?
i give .... about winning margin, all i care about is the race, not the numbers...

if you are a number whore, i dont ....... care, but then go jerk off on the statistics on motogp.com...

if you like to see people behind each other, go watch gay .......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 26 2009, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if you like to see people behind each other, go watch gay .......

So you want them all to cross the finish in one mamoth draw? Other wise in races the competitiors tend to come in one after the other.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you want them all to cross the finish in one mamoth draw? Other wise in races the competitiors tend to come in one after the other.
lol, you really only care about finishes, dont you...
if your not getting my point... watch my post again... im gettin tired of explaining the same thing to someone who apparently doesnt even cares about racing, but only about finishing...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 26 2009, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>..but only about finishing...

which place did he/they finish in. ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>which place did he/they finish in. ?
please read the whole post before commenting.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>which place did he/they finish in. ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 25 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 25 2009, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Welcome to the form.
I largely agree with you, but you leave a question unaswered: Is this a positive thing?

I suspect this is an important part of the prosession racing these days. The riders make hardly any mistakes despite the fact that they are riding on the edge. As a result the race become very static, and boring.

I am for TC, because even though I love powerslides or a smoky corner exit as much as the next guy, I'd rather watch a rider ride a technological masterpiece faster than any other inhumanly brilliant rider. I don't think TC is the only thing that keeps everyone from being neck-and-neck. The bikes as a whole are more difficult to wring out every last bit of performance, separating out the best from the rest. It seems that every second that can be cut from a lap on comparable machinery equates to ten times the skill/mastery/pb&j effect (what I think Stoner has with the Ducati, it just works), much like the richter scale algorithm.

But I agree, the riders can ride closer to the edge, their taking too much liberty in that department much less often bringing retribution. However, even if it were the case that TC is the bane of close racing and overtaking, I'd still keep it, because I am far more interested in the beautiful intricacies of engineering and machinery than I am the flamboyance and fanfare of any given motorsport - I prefer the bikes to be as amazing as possible, with little regard for other concerns. Besides, Laguna was a close race (for two riders), sometimes the stars will align for the given masters of respective machinery to ride together, and we will all be able to join in a nice circle jerk, or .....&moan about how Stoner bitched&moaned (justified, in my opinion) and that Rossi can do no wrong.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 26 2009, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>who says that? what makes a race?
1 guy riding circles aint a race...
2 guys riding a circle with a mile between them, still aint a race...
18 riders riding circles with no position swaps is not a race... its a parade >.<

Is this the post you refer to?

I answered it.

I don't agree with you.

Telling me to re-read it till I do agree with you is not working ........ I still think you are talking claptrap.

Again do you count Usain Bolts Final as a race?

What your saying is that many races are not races just because they don't swap places throughout the entire race!!!?? .......

Why do you follow MGP ?

Get real

Its a development race in the off season, its a development race over the course of the season, the riders start at point A and try to get to Point B first, its all racing.

We happen to be at a point in time where 2 riders are dominating the field, and we have had 3 different world champions in the last 3 years! If that in not close and exciting for some of you then I dont know what will be.

Now from 1994 to 2005 there were 3 different Champions. That is 11 years. Now we have just had 3 different champions in the last 3 years!! How much more variety do you want?

I understand the point that we want on track battles etc... well history suggests that the current level of winners and passes is the status quo.

There are not as many offs now as the riders are better. There is more technology avaliable in training and reaction times that the riders perform on a higher level, combine this with the improvment in bike technology and you guys going closer to the limit. And in such a climate the acid test has proven that only 2 guys can really sustain that level of performance. If that does not float your boat then dont watch it.

Oh and i forgot to add, for anyone that knows anything about going fast you will understand that the second you engage traction control it compromises your exit speed.

Traction control works by cutting power, how people think the reason Casey is fast because he opens the taps and lets the TC sort it out clearly has no idea about how to go fast.

TC will save your hide and give you confidence but it wont make you go faster. You go faster by getting as much power down onto the track as possible.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Feb 27 2009, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and i forgot to add, for anyone that knows anything about going fast you will understand that the second you engage traction control it compromises your exit speed.

Traction control works by cutting power, how people think the reason Casey is fast because he opens the taps and lets the TC sort it out clearly has no idea about how to go fast.

TC will save your hide and give you confidence but it wont make you go faster. You go faster by getting as much power down onto the track as possible.It's like 6 in the morning here & I've been drinking rum all night, but don't you get more power onto the track by managing the traction? By preventing spinning up?

[Is well boozed up]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Feb 27 2009, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and i forgot to add, for anyone that knows anything about going fast you will understand that the second you engage traction control it compromises your exit speed.

Traction control works by cutting power, how people think the reason Casey is fast because he opens the taps and lets the TC sort it out clearly has no idea about how to go fast.

TC will save your hide and give you confidence but it wont make you go faster. You go faster by getting as much power down onto the track as possible.

One of the most sensible posts I've seen here!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Feb 28 2009, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's like 6 in the morning here & I've been drinking rum all night, but don't you get more power onto the track by managing the traction? By preventing spinning up?

[Is well boozed up]


As much as you would if your Granny was being doubled by you and at the same time keeping a firm hand beside yours on the throttle.

The way to go faster is always going to be to:

A: Turf granny

or

B: Negotiate with Granny ( program setup ) such that you remind her you are still a growing young man and you need to do "boy things" ( need a bit of power at times )....... or you'll grow up a nancyboy/sissy/ the ultimate threat ..... turn Gay ( sorry about the non-PCness ) The best outcome of such a negotiation would have granny feeling safe ( you not crashing ) and you getting your kicks ( going fast still ) So to be fast granny has to be very adept at knowing just when to "shut you down", without "cramping your style"

Too protective Granny ......... you lose
Not protective enough Granny ........ you lose.
Granny just right ( at knowing when to step in ) ............. you win!!


So perhaps why Stoner can go fast is:

A: he just goes fast ........ and yet Granny feels safe ( he's a damn good rider )

or

B: He is a sneaky little bugger and has granny wrapped around his little finger and gets up to no good whilst she isn't watching ( he knows how to ride over/use TC to his advantage, or fool the system )




Let me know how that translates that Babel! .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 25 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i give .... about winning margin, all i care about is the race, not the numbers...

if you are a number whore, i dont ....... care, but then go jerk off on the statistics on motogp.com...

if you like to see people behind each other, go watch gay .......

Again with the "gay" inference - can someone please tell this kid that if he's struggling with his own sexuality he can come out once and for all and no one on the this forum will judge him for it...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Feb 27 2009, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and i forgot to add, for anyone that knows anything about going fast you will understand that the second you engage traction control it compromises your exit speed.

Traction control works by cutting power, how people think the reason Casey is fast because he opens the taps and lets the TC sort it out clearly has no idea about how to go fast.

TC will save your hide and give you confidence but it wont make you go faster. You go faster by getting as much power down onto the track as possible.

And exactly what do you know about going fast? Traction control are not an advantage at the exit of the turn, you're right about that. But a very good TC will help riders big time around the apex at maximum lean angle. That's where you used to see who the men was. These days many are opening up the throttle so much earlier than they used to.
As for the exit it might never become better than manual throttle control but I wouldn't bet on it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(is200 @ Feb 27 2009, 05:18 PM)
Oh and i forgot to add, for anyone that knows anything about going fast you will understand that the second you engage traction control it compromises your exit speed.

Traction control works by cutting power, how people think the reason Casey is fast because he opens the taps and lets the TC sort it out clearly has no idea about how to go fast.

TC will save your hide and give you confidence but it wont make you go faster. You go faster by getting as much power down onto the track as possible.

That's like saying ABS makes you stopping distance longer.

If TC is set up right it will allow you to use the maximum amount of power that's usable for that given situation. So in some situations cutting the power making you faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 1 2009, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So in some situations cutting the power making you faster.

I'm pretty sure that violates the laws of physics ......... so how does that work then?

Less power makes you go faster you say? ....... not what I remember from anything I've learned in the past ..... maybe you can explain it ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 28 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure that violates the laws of physics ......... so how does that work then?

Less power makes you go faster you say? ....... not what I remember from anything I've learned in the past ..... maybe you can explain it ?

because like the over used and worn out cliche says, "power is nothing without control".

enough power to break traction of the tyre at max lean angle for a given situation (suspension setup etc) will usually result in
a) the rider backing off the gas to get the wheels back in line or
the back coming round and spinning up/highsiding...

TC makes the job of the rider easier when he has to back off the throttle some because he will not have to be as precise with it due to TC softening the edge of throttle response (IMO).
a CPU will always react quicker to these inputs than a human brain and therefore should make the bike quicker but there are times when excessive hp will allow you to steer the bike and get it pointed in the right direction quicker. thats why riders say that too much TC slows you down. the right amount lets you go as fast as possible whilst giving you a much bigger safety net should you go over the limits.

i think thats what BM's garbled granny-bothering post was trying to say...

[sarcasm]or, it could be a load of .... and Stoners ducati really is the only bike with TC that lets him just wind the throttle wide open all the time and its still safe.....[/sarcasm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 28 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure that violates the laws of physics ......... so how does that work then?

Less power makes you go faster you say? ....... not what I remember from anything I've learned in the past ..... maybe you can explain it ?
I'm not a seasoned racer but TC is to help with the grip and perhaps make the throttle respons become/feel different so that you can apply as much torque to the rear tire as possible,as early as possible.Right?
So yes it cuts the power but hopefully only that power surplus that would make the rearwheel spin.
That's how i have understood it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 28 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure that violates the laws of physics ......... so how does that work then?

Less power makes you go faster you say? ....... not what I remember from anything I've learned in the past ..... maybe you can explain it ?
because if you have to much power in some situation's you will either crash loosing time or have to make throttle adjustments or brake loosing time.. tc is the idea of the computer knows best, like the fly by wire on some aircraft.