Ducati? 2nd Rider always suffers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Apr 23 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honestly....this is too funny....

1:57.225 for Nicky in TESTING
1:58.273 for Nicky in the RACE

1'57 .938 for Mike in TESTING
1:57:510 for Mika in the RACE

Let's discuss how may points do you get for testing again?
Kallio may well end up doing better than nicky, he certainly looks to have the talent to make a mark at this level, just as stoner may win the 2009 world championship, but it is too early to call either after one race. It is not kallio's fault that nicky high-sided and ran out of tyres after practice, and if nicky makes a habit of such mishaps it will continue not to be kallio's fault, but I don't think it is reasonable to dismiss nicky's potential for the season on the basis of the initial race where adverse events definitely befell him, even if at least the high-side is difficult to blame on anyone but him. Even rossi not uncommonly blows one race a season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 23 2009, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Even rossi not uncommonly blows one race a season.
True...but Nicky is no Rossi...

Rossi may blow a race then win the next 3 races...or least podium...where as Nicky....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Apr 23 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True...but Nicky is no Rossi...

Rossi may blow a race then win the next 3 races...or least podium...where as Nicky....

Comparing Nicky to Rossi, wow you are sure moving the goal post BTW, that's a common debate fallacy). It’s a very common debate tactic used by those whose purpose is to make the object look way worse. Migs and others are so hell bent and fixated on Nicky as not to see how ridiculous their arguments become when exposed. You guys have made a forum career out of it.

You guys have me laughing to see all this activity after this race, granted by routinely only a few, about how Ducati should throw in the towel over Nicky because he had a bad race. The first race, the only race so far, and one that was prefaced with three major problem NOT of his own doing. I'm assuming we can (for the sake of argument) blame him only for the high side, ok, now what about having three other mechanical problems that pretty much made his practice time very short? I remember how you love to factor in Rossi's mechanicals and tires to make a case how Hayden was so undeserving for the title, but here you can't factor in the same element. Ah, the double standard...I know you don’t notice it Migs, but I write it for the benefit of others reading these posts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2009, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you suggesting that its simply a coincedence that major race teams with Marlboro title sponsor ship always display the same barcode at races where Tobacco sponsorship is not allowed?

As far as Ducati's doomed second riders go. We all know a riders performance is affected by not only their ability, but the ability of their team and the communication between the two. On top of that their is the possibility of differences in the machinary, more likely later in the season, particularly if the results have been particularly one sided.

I don't think Nicky will underperform enough to get left out of the best updates, and so far i've read that he and Casey tend to agree on the direction the bike should go. It is probable that Casey's side of the garage now has all the best personel that Ducati course have to offer but i don't think Nickies team are incable. The bike is oviously not as user friendly as what he is used to, and with a new team to boot Nicky obviously has work to do in sevral areas. The plus side of that is that we can hope for progress. If his season winds up worse off than he was at Honda things will look quite bad for Hayden.
It would be in Ducati's best intrest to make parts and upgrades available to Nicky. If they get podiums and possibly wins then it produces very good marketing material. In this economy selling bikes let alone high end bikes isn't the best of investment decisions for those who may be on the fence about which bike to purchase. Nicky doing well and seeing those ads in the magazines may be enough to get a few sales done in Ducati's favor. The ads in the US for the R1 run constantly and all you see is this Valentino guy in a country where MOTO GP isn't supposed to be anything but a minor blip on the radar.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 23 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Comparing Nicky to Rossi, wow you are sure moving the goal post BTW, that's a common debate fallacy). It’s a very common debate tactic used by those whose purpose is to make the object look way worse. Migs and others are so hell bent and fixated on Nicky as not to see how ridiculous their arguments become when exposed. You guys have made a forum career out of it.

You guys have me laughing to see all this activity after this race, granted by routinely only a few, about how Ducati should throw in the towel over Nicky because he had a bad race. The first race, the only race so far, and one that was prefaced with three major problem NOT of his own doing. I'm assuming we can (for the sake of argument) blame him only for the high side, ok, now what about having three other mechanical problems that pretty much made his practice time very short? I remember how you love to factor in Rossi's mechanicals and tires to make a case how Hayden was so undeserving for the title, but here you can't factor in the same element. Ah, the double standard...I know you don’t notice it Migs, but I write it for the benefit of others reading these posts.
I guess becoming a MOTOGP champ really isn't that hard then if Nicky could do it. What does that say about ROssi then?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2009, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you suggesting that its simply a coincedence that major race teams with Marlboro title sponsor ship always display the same barcode at races where Tobacco sponsorship is not allowed?

As far as Ducati's doomed second riders go. We all know a riders performance is affected by not only their ability, but the ability of their team and the communication between the two.

Definitely, and as I've repeatedly said, I really think this is a major factor inhibiting Christian Pupilan's crew

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 17 2009, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its really very simple............Stoner is a far better rider. Please dont resort to conspiracy theories...................
6587:destruct..._anatomy.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 23 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>6587:destruct..._anatomy.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 23 2009, 02:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you serious... LINKS

Yeah, I'm serious. Other than that forum's speculation, in which of those sites do you read "The Barcorde is trully a Marlboro" thing?

Look what Wikipedia tell us:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Wikipedia")<div class='quotemain'>Ferrari were the only team to receive tobacco sponsorship for the 2007 season. The team's principal sponsor is Philip Morris International, parent company of Marlboro cigarettes.[3] However, in order to circumvent the European tobacco advertising ban, the car's livery did not feature the brand name. <u>A simple red and white "barcode" was used and, hence the advertising at European Grands Prix was purely through association</u>. In countries that allow tobacco sponsorship, Ferrari used 'Marlboro' logos.

Look man, <u>through association</u>. This means there is nothing attesting the barcode is a Marlboro creation, a Marlboro logo, it could be a Ferrari creation and people do associate with Marlboro because it replaces the original. Maybe this was not the firstborn idea, but it was what happened, but it is not a Marlboro thing. Got it? The barcode is a Ferrari logo (IMO), created to replace the Marlboro one when required, but people elected it as a Marlboro masked logo and that was the deal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 23 2009, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Preziosi said that in the winter 2007-8. In fact the 2008 bike was not different from the 2007 model--some minor modifications to the trellis frame and the power curve of the engine, that was all. But now in 2009 the story is different--I would consider the GP09 a brand new bike, since it is a completely new frame with a new generation of the L4 desmo engine.

Ducati do have money coming from investors, but why should they drop the Desmosedici concept which is the most successful MotoGP bike of the 800cc era, at least until they have a rider like Stoner who can tame it? Much better to keep developing it, it still seems to have a lot of potential, and hope some other rider can adapt to the bike.

The bar code you see on the Ferraris and Ducatis is just the sponsor's logo (Marlboro) which has to be displayed as bar code in those countries that prohibit tobacco publicity...

There are plenty of riders struggling with the bike, how could us validate Desmosedici as the most successful 800cc bike? For sure the bike is as fast as hell, but the project has several problems and Preziosi knows that. The fact Gibernau came back was for testing purposes only, to try to discover what the hell with the damn bike that no one other than Stoner can ride. IMO, Yamaha M1 2008 and 2009 is the best 800cc bike, the most balanced. The championship numbers tell us. IMO, it is unfair with Yamaha's great work electing Desmosedici as the most successful 800cc bike. And I am a fan of Ducati. Bike is not only engine and electronics.

Looking at the charts this year, we can see Yamaha could make up the gap on top speed and with a lazy twin pulse disappointing noise engine. Does Ducati have the edge of technology? I think not or at least they are not the only one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you suggesting that its simply a coincedence that major race teams with Marlboro title sponsor ship always display the same barcode at races where Tobacco sponsorship is not allowed?

Read above, maybe I have a bit of reason. I won't assume what folklore say, because there was nothing (at least I can't find) attesting the logo is an original idea of Marlboro. I will assume what really could be happened, just like I wrote above. I'm not insisting I'm right, but I prefer assuming a skeptical point of view.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 23 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>6587:destruct..._anatomy.jpg]

Dude, I don't know where do you find these stuffs, but when the subject is funny you really rock.

So Roger, are you suggesting that Hayden is better than or the equal of Stoner? Even Jumkie would not say that.

And , the funny thing is, that "fanboys" are the first to label others fanboys, when their opinions diverge from theirs. Think about it!
Pot calling kettle black methinks.......

Toseland is not performing as well as Rossi. I wonder why?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 24 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So Roger, are you suggesting that Hayden is better than or the equal of Stoner? Even Jumkie would not say that.

And , the funny thing is, that "fanboys" are the first to label others fanboys, when their opinions diverge from theirs. Think about it!
Pot calling kettle black methinks.......

Toseland is not performing as well as Rossi. I wonder why?
6590:motivatorfanboy.jpeg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 24 2009, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>6590:motivatorfanboy.jpeg]
Wow what a stretch there. All of a sudden now fans of Stoner are Optimus prime the leader of the Autobots? WTF?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Apr 24 2009, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow what a stretch there. All of a sudden now fans of Stoner are Optimus prime the leader of the Autobots? WTF?


I think you miss the point!! You would be well to take your own advice and relax

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 24 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you miss the point!! You would be well to take your own advice and relax
Nope didn't miss the point. Funny how you felt the need to point it out. Guess your sarcasm level is at zero.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Apr 24 2009, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope didn't miss the point. Funny how you felt the need to point it out. Guess your sarcasm level is at zero.
chill baby

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 24 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>chill baby
LOL I was making a funny. Don't worry I am not trying to start anything.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 24 2009, 05:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>6590:motivatorfanboy.jpeg]

Self portrait Rog?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 24 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...
Hey Johnny, I noticed 'creationist' are at the bottom, so is Sara Palin on the 2nd page?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 24 2009, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Self portrait Rog?
That how i imagine stella to look like

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Apr 23 2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, I'm serious. Other than that forum's speculation, in which of those sites do you read "The Barcorde is trully a Marlboro" thing?

Look what Wikipedia tell us:



Look man, <u>through association</u>. This means there is nothing attesting the barcode is a Marlboro creation, a Marlboro logo, it could be a Ferrari creation and people do associate with Marlboro because it replaces the original. Maybe this was not the firstborn idea, but it was what happened, but it is not a Marlboro thing. Got it? The barcode is a Ferrari logo (IMO), created to replace the Marlboro one when required, but people elected it as a Marlboro masked logo and that was the deal.

Nope ... I'm in complete agreement with Tom. Too much evidence to the contrary... until you show some concrete proof that it is a Ferrari thing (the pic doesn't cut it seeing how it looks just like the Ducati racing team logo with the barcode and all... both sponsored by Marlboro)