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Ducati? 2nd Rider always suffers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 17 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>oh please u guys say nicky is a dirt bike rider , but then you say he is now a honda style riders thus his lack of success on the ducati..... and he was reall successful on the honda??? .... satellite riders were regularly beating him on the honda, he couldnt of been too acostomimed to it..... fucken conclusion.... hayden is a mediocre rider


Dude, were you born stupid? Or you just happened to be that way? Unless you know the rider/riders back ground, dont go around talking sh!t. 4 years of TV viewing motorcyle racing under your belt, dont make you a pro. You need at least 15 years to qualify as an amateur. We already know you are a PRO...... But, a PRO at hookers in Hong Kong!!!!! So please, leave the motorcycle analyst to those of us in the know.

Please click the link below for help with online posting.
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting


OBTW, you should work on your spelling before making a signature.




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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 17 2009, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would buy it, however, how many people can ride the Yamaha fast, even on Bridgestones
<
?? We know the score. Jorge and Edwards can also ride the Ducati then too?? They have shown to be somewhat close in practice and the races, or at least closer than the Ducati separation. Too many questions arise out of your speculation.

I will however agree with your assesment of the harder tires. Edwards has speculated about the hard tires that Rossi uses as I alluded to in my posts above. Is it not the hard front that got the most complaints in the race though
<


Also, for those that thought Hayden forgot how to ride with the rear, I would invite you to go back and check out the qualifying sessions for that last couple of rounds that Hayden was on the Honda. He was showing people he could still slide the rear out, wasn't he
<


Rossi is way ahead of the other Yamahas, imho. The Yam remains a more friendly bike than the Ducati, even after shifting the weight ratio to adapt to the Bridgestones, so there is less gap between Rossi and his team mates, as compared to Ducati's situation. Still the gap is there, especially in actual race rather than tests.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Apr 17 2009, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"as would Stoner be as quick as Rossi if he was on the Yamaha" this is pure hogshit - stoner has never been able to ride anything to a win other than the 800 ducati. he fell off everything else.

Alas, time for a history lesson .... let's look at Stoner's "World Championship" years (I'd rather not belittle you too much by talking about his non world championship years);

2003 - LCR125 - yep, had a win on that one!
2004 - KTM125 - yep, had a win on that as well ... actually it was the first ever win for KTM!
2005 - LCR250 - yep, had a win on that as well ... actually make that a few wins!

Why don't you clarify your statement (just for the sake of making it a statement based on fact) and say that "stoner has never been able to ride an LCR MotoGP bike to a win" ... now you are speaking the truth. Wouldn't hurt to also add that no one else has either.
 
he came 8th in his rookie season on the LCR.... got a pole, a 2nd and many other top 5 finishes..... and ended with 119points....

now some people would consider that a successfull year if that happened to Hayden, Loris, Toseland in 2009..... isnt that wierd
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 18 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>now some people would consider that a successfull year if that happened to Hayden, Loris, Toseland in 2009..... isnt that wierd

He was overshadoewed by a another rookie performing much better, similar to Dovi. I think most would agree his rookie season was impressive.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 18 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he came 8th in his rookie season on the LCR.... got a pole, a 2nd and many other top 5 finishes..... and ended with 119points....

now some people would consider that a successfull year if that happened to Hayden, Loris, Toseland in 2009..... isnt that wierd

Yeah, it would be a successful season for all those guys. Because they simply aren't as good as Stoner is. This is true.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Apr 17 2009, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... man the instant gratification you guys that are firing off at Hayden is just uncalled for and is really unrealistic.

He's a world champion in the big class so we expect more from Nicky than others....

Motegi is a Ducati track....Loris has won in 2007 and 2006 there, Casey came in second last year and Marco 13th, and in 2006 Gibbers got 5th on the Duc...so if Nicky can get between 13th and 5th then he might be improving....

Eitherway...Nicky has to beat Mika Kallio...
 
I think the future (and current motogp overall style) requires riders who can adapt themselves to the bike and not the opposite. The rider who can relearn, can accept changes and can adapt himself to new ways, is a rider with a very good chance of successful.

Competition in Motogp has grown in a way that manufactures with small budget like Ducati are having to try radically new alternatives in order to be able to win something. Learning how to manage these alternatives is a problem for current already addicted riders, but that gap we can clearly see today will make up with time.

Regards!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Apr 18 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's a world champion in the big class so we expect more from Nicky than others....

Motegi is a Ducati track....Loris has won in 2007 and 2006 there, Casey came in second last year and Marco 13th, and in 2006 Gibbers got 5th on the Duc...so if Nicky can get between 13th and 5th then he might be improving....

Eitherway...Nicky has to beat Mika Kallio...
Sure we expect the world from him but it is still the first race and barely even two weeks in total on that particular machine. AGAIN the guy was on a midget racer and needs to unlearn the .... he had to learn to adapt to that piece of ..... Now he is on a machine that plays to his talents of pre mini bike stage with Honda. If you recall he was just getting the 990 to a point where he really felt good. Then had to learn the pedrosa built bike. Now he working towards a brand new deal so give him a ...... chance for cryin out loud.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Apr 18 2009, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sure we expect the world from him but it is still the first race and barely even two weeks in total on that particular machine. AGAIN the guy was on a midget racer and needs to unlearn the .... he had to learn to adapt to that piece of ..... Now he is on a machine that plays to his talents of pre mini bike stage with Honda. If you recall he was just getting the 990 to a point where he really felt good. Then had to learn the pedrosa built bike. Now he working towards a brand new deal so give him a ...... chance for cryin out loud.

Excuses, excuses. Yes, some of the points are valid, but he still HAS TO BE faster than Kallio. Or are you going to claim that riding for many years in Moto GP class is BAD thing and that Kallio has an advantage to Hayden?!

Come on! He has to beat Kallio or... Well, he doesn't deserve the factory bike.
 
top class riders dont have to relearn ........ top class riders are fast from the get go.... i said the same about marco, 200 laps of testing and 1 race is more than enough to see if a rider is going to be fast on the bike.....
 
In the end, it's all speculation, after one round. Yes, he didn't perform well, but he had a crash, a clutch problem and an engine problem. We'll know soon...but not yet!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Apr 18 2009, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Competition in Motogp has grown in a way that manufactures with small budget like Ducati are having to try radically new alternatives in order to be able to win something.

I am yet to see anything other than speculation to suggest that Ducati actually operate with a lower budget than other motogp teams, and have heard that in man power at least they don't differ much from HRC
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Apr 17 2009, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"as would Stoner be as quick as Rossi if he was on the Yamaha" this is pure hogshit - stoner has never been able to ride anything to a win other than the 800 ducati. he fell off everything else. his style is basically twist the grip and wait for the bike to do the rest. Ducati/ marelli have accomodated this extremely well, but ONLY FOR Stoner - with the result that other technically better racers, who have not migrated to the just twist the grip style - see capirossi, melandri and possibly power slide hayden (not my favorite, but a rider with a sliding style) have not been as fast on the ducati - i agrre with the idea of seeing Bayliss on the Ducati - if he can't ride it, then no-one, but Stoner can. Put Rossi on the Ducati and he will ride it faster than Stiner,

Here we go again.......
You're obviously an expert mate about how Ducati set up their bikes, and how the electronics work, and how they favour Stoner over all the other technically better riders.
Who knows whether Rossi would beat Stoner on a Ducati - you sure as hell don't.

I'm no more a fan of Stoners over Rossi, but I seem to remember Stoner putting the LCR Honda on pole on his first MotoGPO race, and being competative in 2006 with the factory teams on the LCR team which was at the bottom of the food chain with Honda.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 19 2009, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am yet to see anything other than speculation to suggest that Ducati actually operate with a lower budget than other motogp teams, and have heard that in man power at least they don't differ much from HRC
I think ducati corse are extremely well funded, particularly by marlboro of which I disapprove (which makes me a hypocrite I guess). But according to mylexicon (a long term ducatista) when this was discussed last year they have only a hundred or so employees, and presumably they have to rely to some extent on the underlying technological base of the parent ducati company, which is a vastly smaller concern than honda or yamaha.

This I am sure gives them advantages in terms of flexibility over the bigger companies whch they have exploited in the 800 era, but I would think makes it harder for them to pursue multiple lines of development, not that the other companies really do that anyway, and I think it is possible might restrict them in terms of producing new advances like the carbon fibre swingarm or hand built carbon fibre chassis in quantity and immediately. We have had posters comment about how the ducati race bikes on display at shows often look fairly cobbled together compared to the others; admittedly such display bikes may not necessarily have too much to do with real race bikes. On the other hand Pedrosa at one stage early last year said that honda came up with a whole new chassis in a matter of days when he was not happy with the current one.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 19 2009, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am yet to see anything other than speculation to suggest that Ducati actually operate with a lower budget than other motogp teams, and have heard that in man power at least they don't differ much from HRC

I forgot where I read but I remember reading Filippo Preziosi saying about it. He said Ducati has not enough money to restart a new project every year, so they have to focus in alternatives/workarounds such electronics and stuff.

If Ducati had money, they will drop the evolution of Desmosedici project and start a new one from the ground, I'm sure.

By seeing Ferrari's racing logo at Ducati bikes (that like a barcode), we can assume Maranello factory helps Ducati in some way, but I think not with money. Ferrari may give a help in electronics and engine tweaks.

Regards!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Apr 20 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By seeing Ferrari's racing logo at Ducati bikes (that like a barcode), we can assume Maranello factory helps Ducati in some way, but I think not with money. Ferrari may give a help in electronics and engine tweaks.
...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Apr 20 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I forgot where I read but I remember reading Filippo Preziosi saying about it. He said Ducati has not enough money to restart a new project every year, so they have to focus in alternatives/workarounds such electronics and stuff.

If Ducati had money, they will drop the evolution of Desmosedici project and start a new one from the ground, I'm sure.

By seeing Ferrari's racing logo at Ducati bikes (that like a barcode), we can assume Maranello factory helps Ducati in some way, but I think not with money. Ferrari may give a help in electronics and engine tweaks.

Regards!

I had thought that the barcode is a Marlboro thing... its their 'logo' when they are in countries they can't advertise cigarettes. Isn't ferrari backed by them?
 
I think the other Ducati riders will do better in a few races.Quatar seemed extreem.It seemed like anyone who didn't have very good grips on their bikes was having a dissapointing weekend.Ducati or not.The funny thing is ,Stoner seems to go fast and win races no matter how difficult and incomplete the bike is.And then when upgrades arrive he sais -Now we got some grunt in lower revs too,or whatever and he goes even faster.IMHO it's Stoner that makes the difference.And being .5 sec. a lap slower than him isn't too bad in practice because then you are as fast as Valentino.Not really acurate every session but never the less i think even Rossi has a hard time keeping up.
My point is how fast is Hayden compared to Rossi?
 

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