Dovizioso concerned with Honda's pace

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you have never noticed how small the rc212v looks with hayboy sat on it ?

Hayden is larger than Pedrosa ...... I ask you something ....... How does the size of the RCV look on Dovi .... think about it ...
\

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You dont remember HRC midway through a season having to make a wider fairing for nicky to deflect the wind around his considerably wider shoulders ?

Well if they did, that's an argument against the proposition that it was built for Pedrosa WHy would they then design and build the fairing for Hayden .... as they did ... if it was for Pedrosa ...... no that was all just stupid carry on because folk on here were of the belief that these things are not "showroom model bikes" ....... when GP riders want something to suit them .... they usually get it.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you actually watch race's berry or do you just get the stoner highlights via smoke signals deep in the aussie bush ??

Not just the highlights we have our smoke signals that carry the the full race in HD .....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 10 2009, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Me ....... tis a stupid proposition ....... why would Honda allow that? especially after Hayden just won the WC on the thing?

I don't see anything to back your statement either in What Dovi said ........ seems no more than any new rider on a team would say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Mar 10 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

I take it that thats your only reply

Don't .... ..... argue against what I say ....... put something cogent together that might make some sense if you believe I'm wrong.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Mar 10 2009, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
good response Al. we have to excuse barrys lack of memory. Its not that he cant remember, its he didnt start watching until half way through the 07 season when stoner was on his winning streak and he was plastered all over the aussie papers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its not that he cant remember, its he didnt start watching until half way through the 07 season when stoner was on his winning streak and he was plastered all over the aussie papers.
It should have been plastered all over the aussie papers but wasn't; as I have said before bike racing is a very low profile sport in the general press in australia, and the papers mainly concern themselves with the football codes (which would be non-football codes to most europeans) and the manifold scandals related thereto, occasionally to olympic sports mainly in olympic years, and cricket when australia are winning .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 10 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It should have been plastered all over the aussie papers but wasn't; as I have said before bike racing is a very low profile sport in the general press in australia, and the papers mainly concern themselves with the football codes (which would be non-football codes to most europeans) and the manifold scandals related thereto, occasionally to olympic sports mainly in olympic years, and cricket when australia are winning .
Then why the sudden influx of aussies on the site mid way through 07 ? i think before that we had 2 or 3 from oz then all of a sudden there were hundreds. most of which have now gone for some strange reason

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> good response Al. we have to excuse barrys lack of memory. Its not that he cant remember, its he didnt start watching until half way through the 07 season when stoner was on his winning streak and he was plastered all over the aussie papers.

ah you ....... ...... if you cared to look back you will see I disagreed, as I do still, on the "bike is too small and built for Pedrosa theory" when it was first touted on here, ....... that makes you the one with amnesia, ..... either that or just a plain .......

Amnesia is when I can't remember what happened at a prior time, amnesia is not what one gets because they disagree with your theory, or what one gets when they get sooked at for having a different opinion.

Very strange, there is actually a thing where I and BM agree. WOW
Sure, the 212 where made for smaller riders than Hayden, that's even official from Honda, but to go from there to say it was specifically designed for Pedrosa, the shortest person in motoGP is to stretch it too far. It's simply doesn't make sense to design a bike that only fit one person.
Besides, the 212 isn't that different from the 211 or other bikes. The measurements are allost identical and fairings, sadle, tank steering handles are all "adjustable" on a motoGP bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then why the sudden influx of aussies on the site mid way through 07 ? i think before that we had 2 or 3 from oz then all of a sudden there were hundreds. most of which have now gone for some strange reason
Even if there were only 50 motogp fans in australia, a working majority would likely find their way to an english website to crow when an australian rider was winning, for reasons somewhat obscure to me given that stoner was actually beating an italian rider and that there were no english/british riders competing, and that british riders have historically won far more championships .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then why the sudden influx of aussies on the site mid way through 07 ? i think before that we had 2 or 3 from oz then all of a sudden there were hundreds. most of which have now gone for some strange reason

I can tell you why Rog. ....... in 07 there was a sudden occurrence of ....... Stoner hate ( from you especially ) ........ and many joined up purely to answer your incessant crap at that time.

Those that didn't ...... until that time didn't have much to talk about eg. how many Dovifans, Pedrosafans, Eliasfans etc. are there on here? ........ I know you'd love it but what is the use of a forum full of just Rossifans? ........ it'd end up like that fairytale gay .... "the yellow community"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 06:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> good response Al. we have to excuse barrys lack of memory. Its not that he cant remember, its he didnt start watching until half way through the 07 season when stoner was on his winning streak and he was plastered all over the aussie papers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Mar 10 2009, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Me @ Mar 10 2009, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't .... ..... argue against what I say ....... put something cogent together that might make some sense if you believe I'm wrong.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Also me @ Mar 10 2009, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ah you ....... ...... if you cared to look back you will see I disagreed, as I do still, on the "bike is too small and built for Pedrosa theory" when it was first touted on here, ....... that makes you the one with amnesia, ..... either that or just a plain .......

Amnesia is when I can't remember what happened at a prior time, amnesia is not what one gets because they disagree with your theory, or what one gets when they get sooked at for having a different opinion.

But put your "alzheimers" in place of the Al' and Rog's "amnesia" .......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 10 2009, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I take it that thats your only reply

Don't .... ..... argue against what I say ....... put something cogent together that might make some sense if you believe I'm wrong.
no, its not my only reply. that pic was just to insult you.



babel said it best...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Sure, the 212 where made for smaller riders than Hayden, that's even official from Honda

why would they design a bike around a "smaller person" if the current world champ was not a smaller rider? were they expecting someone else to be the world champ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2009, 02:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you have never noticed how small the rc212v looks with hayboy sat on it ? You dont remember HRC midway through a season having to make a wider fairing for nicky to deflect the wind around his considerably wider shoulders ? Do you actually watch race's berry or do you just get the stoner highlights via smoke signals deep in the aussie bush ??

Post of the month!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Mar 10 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>why would they design a bike around a "smaller person" if the current world champ was not a smaller rider? were they expecting someone else to be the world champ?
That's the gripe Hayden fans have with Honda. They said the 212 was designed with smaller riders in mind, Hayden is not a smaller rider but he was the world champion. Someone explain that logic to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 10 2009, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very strange, there is actually a thing where I and BM agree. WOW
Sure, the 212 where made for smaller riders than Hayden, that's even official from Honda, but to go from there to say it was specifically designed for Pedrosa, the shortest person in motoGP is to stretch it too far. It's simply doesn't make sense to design a bike that only fit one person.

Fish, Honda have done allot of things that have been in the category of "doesn't make sense". The thing is we find out it didn't make sense usually after the fact for some, but for others, it doesn't make sense as they see it. For example, their push for 800 machines made sense to some, thinking it was a step in the direction of safety. But to other wiser people, it was criticized from the beginning. Their design of the 07 bikes was clear enough for many, yet still some, and even still a few can't see the reality behind the design. I'm sure it was a good idea for them at the time, yet now we see a guy like Dovi saying the thing doesn't work for me (but Dani is more satisfied with it) points again to what Hayden fans have been saying (which you and BM don't accept) and that is the design and development are one sided for Peders. Now I know you didn't believe us when we said it in regards to Hayden. I can accept that because many certain people never accept any explanation for Hayden's sub par results. But the evidence has always been there. Why do you suppose only Peders (of many during mid 08 season) got the Bstones? Hayden had also requested them. Where do you think much of the influence came in the direction that Honda took things in? Answer: Puig--who not only loves Peders, but the added advantage of hating Hayden. That's reality Jack! Now again, some more evidence surfaces that yes the bike is designed and developed with only one in mind, and here you have a guy putting pressure on Honda to move away from that plan and listen to him. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, the reality and evidence overwhelmingly point to the truth.

Again, you say it "doesn't make sense". Yes, just like getting ride of Rossi, just like lagging on the solution to bike problems experienced by their points leader in 06, just like making their non-champ the rider the sole push in design and development....etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 10 2009, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's the gripe Hayden fans have with Honda. They said the 212 was designed with smaller riders in mind, Hayden is not a smaller rider but he was the world champion. Someone explain that logic to me.

Try this Austin: Stick your head in the sand.

(It seems to be working for a few around here ^ )

Here's the part I don't get, Dovi is a guy who the Hayden detractors summoned and cheered all year to replace Hayden (it was their way at ambiguous quips and digs at Nicky). Now this guy Dovi is echoing some of the SAME .... we have been saying: ie. Peders/Puig unaccepting, Honda's direction seems to make Peders happy, satisfied, however, Dovi not satisfied, the areas of development that Dovi points to are the ones that were indicated as weakness for their 2nd tier rider before, in other words same .... different rider...and all of a sudden the same members here do NOT see what Dovi is saying as related to the design and development of Honda's plan all along? Amazing!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 9 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anybody here still think the Honda was not tailor made for Peders to the detriment of Hayden since day one after the title was won in 06?
Yeah I do, I believe it went even before that. During '06 Nicky was saddled with a shitload of development which didn't similarly encumber Dani. New components such as the dodgy clutch they insisted he tested if anything hampered his championship campaign which to me makes it even more admirable as an achievement. These internals were forced upon him on race day as opposed to race simulations. As Curve has commented, Dani was better on the 990, largely because was it was such a great unadulterated motorcycle, and in '06 unlike Nicky, he wasn't burdened by new untried parts. So yeah, even when it was still on the HRC drawing board the 800 was to the detriment of Nicky, but long before the title was secured in '06

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 10 2009, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I do, I believe it went even before that. During '06 Nicky was saddled with a shitload of development which didn't similarly encumber Dani. New components such as the dodgy clutch they insisted he tested if anything hampered his championship campaign which to me makes it even more admirable as an achievement. These internals were forced upon him on race day as opposed to race simulations. As Curve has commented, Dani was better on the 990, largely because was it was such a great unadulterated motorcycle, and in '06 unlike Nicky, he wasn't burdened by new untried parts. So yeah, even when it was still on the HRC drawing board the 800 was to the detriment of Nicky, but long before the title was secured in '06

I stand corrected.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 10 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very strange, there is actually a thing where I and BM agree. WOW
Sure, the 212 where made for smaller riders than Hayden, that's even official from Honda, but to go from there to say it was specifically designed for Pedrosa, the shortest person in motoGP is to stretch it too far. It's simply doesn't make sense to design a bike that only fit one person.
Besides, the 212 isn't that different from the 211 or other bikes. The measurements are allost identical and fairings, sadle, tank steering handles are all "adjustable" on a motoGP bike.
Although HRC have always propounded the theory that their engineering input is the domineering factor over their rider input, I could quite easily subscribe to the fact that they were developing a one rider strategy based around Pedrosa. They were the chief architects behind the adoption this formula, and quite feasibly bought about this paradigm shift with a view to signing up and capitalizing on the plethora of jockey sized two stroke riders ready to make their mark in the<strike> big</strike> sorry, slightly bigger class. So following the untimely death of Kato, (their then great white hope), they orchestrated the move to the 'safer' 800cc bikes to suit not only Pedrosa, but other diminutive riders plucked from the two stroke GP feeder classes. Remember it was written in Honda's script that Dani would win the title if not in his debut year, then '07 for sure. They certainly had little faith in the direction they'd taken with Nicky once it became clear that the 990's were history. I believe the '07 800 was definitely designed around Dani which is why they appeared to underestimate the opposition, sacrificing top end grunt for outright handling, believing that such factors as aerodynamics, corner speed and stability on the brakes would prevail. It does make sense that their strategy should fit one person, one that was immediately to hand, and an entire host of future midget clones waiting in the sidelines. The measurements may have been similar Babel, but the characteristics were a world apart.