Dovi should watch out for Spies

i agree.
i found dovi disappointing last year. a bit like kallio when on the factory duke-did worse than before. spies can only get better. to what degree i dont know. history suggests he will not get good enough to challenge the top 3, but he has as good a chance as any that have come via wsbk.
i cant wait and do truly hope he can mix it with the aliens.

Huh???

What's wrong with a rider trying to keep his confidence/motivation up? It's not like he's saying his goal for 2010 is to win the world championship .
Riders have different styles and personalities. Spies and Dovi seem to have different styles. And yes I prefer a rider who doesn't bring himself up, who downplays his chances. Pedrosa is one of those guys, Spies seems to be another. But Dovi is hardly a guy who exaggerates his chances. He's optimistic yes, but not over-optimistic. In fact that's only in the team's press releases, if you read his interviews to 'outside channels' sometimes it's more the opposite!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Feb 1 2010, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...Andrea Dovizioso should surely be a bit easy with the predictions - especially given what happened to him in that last race last year...

...but I reckon that only one of them is looking over their shoulder nervously...
This is what he said "The objective is to have a better season than last year and to have a better feeling with the bike.”

That's pretty sensible and logical to me. And I don't think he's looking over his shoulder nervously at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Feb 1 2010, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For 2010 the Respol bikes are getting a completely new electronics system and chassis - and I really hope that both things gel quickly and give Dovi the package he needs because when he has a bike underneath him he can do amazing things.
Indeed, he can do amazing things, I'm glad someone else realizes his obvious talent. I happen to like Dovi. He's likeble, humble, hard worker, immensely capable, never gives up in a fight.

Anyone who watched him in the lower classes will agree the guy is something special. Heck, did you watch his rookie season in 800cc?? His very first race in Qatar was beyond impressive. I don't think I have to remind you the bike he was racing on was the POS satelite Honda mini-bike. Some of his overtaking moves were breathtaking . No wonder many people were talking him as "the new Rossi".

I always found Dovi a better and more inteligent rider than Lorenzo. After he won the 125cc title he graduated to 250cc and inherited Pedrosa's Honda. Unfortunately for him he was now riding a Honda with no developement, because Honda stoped putting any effort in 250cc since Pedrosa left the class. So he was riding a much inferior and underpowered bike to the Aprilia's (which Lorenzo was on). He still finished runner up in the two seasons. The cocky Lorenzo had it easy .

I agree last year was disapointing. Very. But for anyone who understands how the sport works knows how crucial it is to have a good feeling from the bike if a rider is to be competitive. It's much more critical than on four weel racing.
By now anyone should've known that last year he struggled to get the bike do do anything he wanted. He said the bike stayed the same all year and that Honda wouldn't give the changes he wanted. I noticed several times in the second half of the season he was visibly a frustrated man. Powerless.
He said that to go fast he tried to follow Pedrosa's lines but that "it was not his style". I find it interesting that he started relatively well but things worsened as the season progressed.
So, I think maybe you guys should blame HRC instead, and give the guy a chance. It's clear he can't ride the bike like he wants. EVEN PEDROSA CAN'T! The Spaniard is tired of telling them for three years what he wants on the bike and still Honda don't listen (he said too) .

Lets see how things go this year, but I have a feeling the 2010 RC212V - no matter how good it looks - will STILL be behind the Yamaha and Ducati. In their defence, the testing restrictions (add to that the rain never leaves them alone) dont help their cause. And if that was not enough, now the 1st day of any pre-season test is for test riders only. How useless is that?
Moreover, the limited track time before each race is a big disadvantage for Honda (and a big advantage for Ducati - mainly Stoner - and Yamaha which are much more simple bikes - thus easy to setup. Simple but effective ) since the RCV is the more complex bike. Has anyone noticed how the Honda boys allways complain they didn't have enough time to find an optimal setup? Apparently this years RCV is even more complex. No wonder every Honda rider is sweating like a pig just to find a base setup and to get an initial feeling on the bike.

By the way I wonder why nobody posted this article:

Dovizioso wants to develop bike

Andrea Dovizioso believes Honda needs to allow him to develop the RCV 212 in order to fight for the MotoGP world championship.

The Italian won at Donington in his second top class season last year, while Pedrosa won at Laguna Seca and Valencia, but the pair only finished third and sixth in the standings.

Dovizioso admits it was a difficult season and calls on Honda to follow his advice in 2010.

"For me, <u>2009 was the first year I felt a door slamming in my face</u>," he told Motosprint. "I got to a place everyone dreams of but I didn't get the results.

"I'm not like Valentino [Rossi] who was called by Yamaha to develop and everyone has always followed him. <u>I wasn't given power by Honda to immediately change what I wanted to change</u>.

"That's also because the changes I wanted were too big. Honda said 'it's impossible to do everything now, it's better to work for 2010'. I would like to change many things and the people at Honda have understood the situation."

Dovizioso believes the changes he wants to make could help Pedrosa to win the 2010 title.

"<u>In my opinion, Pedrosa too could benefit from the modifications I ask for</u>. He can easily fight for the title, I have no doubt he can do it."

By the way,

Hi all

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BBSB @ Feb 11 2010, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Huh???

What's wrong with a rider trying to keep his confidence/motivation up? It's not like he's saying his goal for 2010 is to win the world championship .
Riders have different styles and personalities. Spies and Dovi seem to have different styles. And yes I prefer a rider who doesn't bring himself up, who downplays his chances. Pedrosa is one of those guys, Spies seems to be another. But Dovi is hardly a guy who exaggerates his chances. He's optimistic yes, but not over-optimistic. In fact that's only in the team's press releases, if you read his interviews to 'outside channels' sometimes it's more the opposite!


This is what he said "The objective is to have a better season than last year and to have a better feeling with the bike.”

That's pretty sensible and logical to me. And I don't think he's looking over his shoulder nervously at all.


Indeed, he can do amazing things, I'm glad someone else realizes his obvious talent. I happen to like Dovi. He's likeble, humble, hard worker, immensely capable, never gives up in a fight.

Anyone who watched him in the lower classes will agree the guy is something special. Heck, did you watch his rookie season in 800cc?? His very first race in Qatar was beyond impressive. I don't think I have to remind you the bike he was racing on was the POS satelite Honda mini-bike. Some of his overtaking moves were breathtaking . No wonder many people were talking him as "the new Rossi".

I always found Dovi a better and more inteligent rider than Lorenzo. After he won the 125cc title he graduated to 250cc and inherited Pedrosa's Honda. Unfortunately for him he was now riding a Honda with no developement, because Honda stoped putting any effort in 250cc since Pedrosa left the class. So he was riding a much inferior and underpowered bike to the Aprilia's (which Lorenzo was on). He still finished runner up in the two seasons. The cocky Lorenzo had it easy .

I agree last year was disapointing. Very. But for anyone who understands how the sport works knows how crucial it is to have a good feeling from the bike if a rider is to be competitive. It's much more critical than on four weel racing.
By now anyone should've known that last year he struggled to get the bike do do anything he wanted. He said the bike stayed the same all year and that Honda wouldn't give the changes he wanted. I noticed several times in the second half of the season he was visibly a frustrated man. Powerless.
He said that to go fast he tried to follow Pedrosa's lines but that "it was not his style". I find it interesting that he started relatively well but things worsened as the season progressed.
So, I think maybe you guys should blame HRC instead, and give the guy a chance. It's clear he can't ride the bike like he wants. EVEN PEDROSA CAN'T! The Spaniard is tired of telling them for three years what he wants on the bike and still Honda don't listen (he said too) .

Lets see how things go this year, but I have a feeling the 2010 RC212V - no matter how good it looks - will STILL be behind the Yamaha and Ducati. In their defence, the testing restrictions (add to that the rain never leaves them alone) dont help their cause. And if that was not enough, now the 1st day of any pre-season test is for test riders only. How useless is that?
Moreover, the limited track time before each race is a big disadvantage for Honda (and a big advantage for Ducati - mainly Stoner - and Yamaha which are much more simple bikes - thus easy to setup. Simple but effective ) since the RCV is the more complex bike. Has anyone noticed how the Honda boys allways complain they didn't have enough time to find an optimal setup? Apparently this years RCV is even more complex. No wonder every Honda rider is sweating like a pig just to find a base setup and to get an initial feeling on the bike.

By the way I wonder why nobody posted this article:

Dovizioso wants to develop bike

Andrea Dovizioso believes Honda needs to allow him to develop the RCV 212 in order to fight for the MotoGP world championship.

The Italian won at Donington in his second top class season last year, while Pedrosa won at Laguna Seca and Valencia, but the pair only finished third and sixth in the standings.

Dovizioso admits it was a difficult season and calls on Honda to follow his advice in 2010.

"For me, <u>2009 was the first year I felt a door slamming in my face</u>," he told Motosprint. "I got to a place everyone dreams of but I didn't get the results.

"I'm not like Valentino [Rossi] who was called by Yamaha to develop and everyone has always followed him. <u>I wasn't given power by Honda to immediately change what I wanted to change</u>.

"That's also because the changes I wanted were too big. Honda said 'it's impossible to do everything now, it's better to work for 2010'. I would like to change many things and the people at Honda have understood the situation."

Dovizioso believes the changes he wants to make could help Pedrosa to win the 2010 title.

"<u>In my opinion, Pedrosa too could benefit from the modifications I ask for</u>. He can easily fight for the title, I have no doubt he can do it."
Good points, but i personally feel that the Honda is a better bike than the Ducati, and even though Dovi did get a win, its one of those wins that has fans saying it was just a race where everything fell into place, now, go out beat the top 4 in a regular race. I like Dovi, but him and everyone else are riding for 5th in the championship, and know it.

I always had high hopes for Dovi but he is a victum of wrong place wrong time. He inherited Pedrosa's ...... bike once again. I'm ashamed to admit that I thought he actually deserved the ride over Hayden. It will be his second season on the factory Honda and possibly his last if he doesn't show some results. he should feel a little pressure.

Why are there so few dynamic riders out there. Yes the bike doesn't suit Dovi's style, and Honda isn't going to change it, so what is the obvious thing to do. CHANGE YOUR RIDING STYLE!! We see the top four riders can change their style and be very competitive on any bike IMO. Does Dovi need the perfect bike made just for him? Does Hayden? Does Rossi?

Let us not forget, Rossi said that he and Stoner could win on the Honda. Obviously the great one thinks the bike is competitive.

Nice post, and welcome to the forum. I don't think there are too many people on here blaming Pedrosa and Dovi for last season's results. I think had Pedrosa been healthy during testing then they may have made a bit more progress and had a stronger season but that's splitting hairs. The blame lies at the feet of HRC. I don't know if Pedrosa has been giving them bad feedback or if they simply aren't bringing what the bike needs, and I don't think we'll ever truly know for sure.

But with all that being said, I was well disappointed with Dovi's results last season. He had a stellar 2008 and with the step up to factory machinery, his results plateaued. Maybe he needs more input, I don't know. Although I believe that a factory Honda ride brings a lot of pressure regardless of nationality. However I also believe that following in the footsteps of Dani Pedrosa coming up in the Honda ranks and being the next high profile Italian to join Repsol Honda, there were a lot of comparisons to Rossi as well. I'd chalk 2009 up to a learning year, adjusting to the team. The majority of riders require such time to get acquainted, but if results don't improve in 2010 then I think his days at Repsol may be numbered. I hope he can do well, seems to be a nice guy.

Spies can .... up Dovi in many aspects of life

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Feb 11 2010, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good points, but i personally feel that the Honda is a better bike than the Ducati, and even though Dovi did get a win, its one of those wins that has fans saying it was just a race where everything fell into place, now, go out beat the top 4 in a regular race. I like Dovi, but him and everyone else are riding for 5th in the championship, and know it.
But that was a regular race. It was in damp conditions, so what? One of the aliens was instantly discarded due to totally wrong tire choice, but he still had the other 3 aliens to deal with . He was smart. He was behind Rossi waiting for the right moment to make his move - in the last laps. He didn't have to wait as Rossi fell off while under pressure from him. His win was fully deserved.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 11 2010, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies can .... up Dovi in many aspects of life
like his .... lol nah spies should be up there if last year was any indication of how good he is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Feb 11 2010, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>like his .... lol nah spies should be up there if last year was any indication of how good he is.

Everything is Bigger in Texas. Spies is gonna stomp ... on any and all midgets...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 12 2010, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Everything is Bigger in Texas. Spies is gonna stomp ... on any and all midgets...
I hope so cause you'll be eatin a whole lotta crow if he doesn't.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 11 2010, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I always had high hopes for Dovi but he is a victum of wrong place wrong time. He inherited Pedrosa's ...... bike once again. I'm ashamed to admit that I thought he actually deserved the ride over Hayden. It will be his second season on the factory Honda and possibly his last if he doesn't show some results. he should feel a little pressure.

Why are there so few dynamic riders out there. Yes the bike doesn't suit Dovi's style, and Honda isn't going to change it, so what is the obvious thing to do. CHANGE YOUR RIDING STYLE!! We see the top four riders can change their style and be very competitive on any bike IMO. Does Dovi need the perfect bike made just for him? Does Hayden? Does Rossi?

Let us not forget, Rossi said that he and Stoner could win on the Honda. Obviously the great one thinks the bike is competitive.
I remember several times during last season Rossi struggling with the bike saying he "couldn't ride the bike the way I want it". Sometimes even the best can't do much. It took the genious of Burgess to help him find the solution(s) to that problem many times (in the settings). And they almost always succeeded.

Rossi and Stoner could win on the Honda? sure! as did Pedrosa right?... Ohh.. consistently? good luck . Rossi usually knows what he's saying but he is wrong on this one (and when he said K. Raikkonën is slow ). He has no idea of the problems in that Honda (talking of the 2009 version, we don't know about the new one yet). Seriously, that Honda was a mess, even one of the eurosport commentators (Mamola?) said "Dani is making the Honda look good". It was very unstable under braking, no wonder why they were easily outbraked; it lacked cornering grip, it was not agile/difficult to turn between corners; Nakamoto admited they were only getting 70-80% of the maximum performance out of the bridgestones; Oh and the bike destroyed its tires after half distance - after which the pace droped gradually, sometimes the difference on pace to the fastest bike was as big as one sec. per lap! How many times did the best placed Honda finish over 10 seconds - sometimes even 20sec - Off 1st place last season?

On the other hand Rossi had the most well balanced bike on the grid and easy to handle. I don't know about the Ducati, that bike is still an enigma for me, but Stoner was fast on the Honda as well. The RC211V.

Oh I would give anything to see Rossi alongside Pedrosa on last years Honda...

^ ...... alert

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Feb 11 2010, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope so cause you'll be eatin a whole lotta crow if he doesn't.

no biggy, i've had crow before, Texas B-B-Q'd Crow Ala Schwantz wasnt too bad back in the day, tasted like chicken

Even with all of HRC's miscues, I still think Rossi and Stoner could win on a 2009 RC212V. Just sayin'.

I think so too......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BBSB @ Feb 11 2010, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But that was a regular race. It was in damp conditions, so what? One of the aliens was instantly discarded due to totally wrong tire choice, but he still had the other 3 aliens to deal with . He was smart. He was behind Rossi waiting for the right moment to make his move - in the last laps. He didn't have to wait as Rossi fell off while under pressure from him. His win was fully deserved.
There was a guy named Vermuellan that got a wet weather win once upon a time. Look where it got him. . All wins are deserved,right place right time,stars line up, whatever you want to call it,but he still has prove he can run with the top 4, and to this point,he hasnt.Its not the bike,Pedro is one of the top 4 on the same bike and raced all season injured.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BBSB @ Feb 12 2010, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I remember several times during last season Rossi struggling with the bike saying he "couldn't ride the bike the way I want it". Sometimes even the best can't do much. It took the genious of Burgess to help him find the solution(s) to that problem many times (in the settings). And they almost always succeeded.

Rossi and Stoner could win on the Honda? sure! as did Pedrosa right?... Ohh.. consistently? good luck . Rossi usually knows what he's saying but he is wrong on this one (and when he said K. Raikkonën is slow ). He has no idea of the problems in that Honda (talking of the 2009 version, we don't know about the new one yet). Seriously, that Honda was a mess, even one of the eurosport commentators (Mamola?) said "Dani is making the Honda look good". It was very unstable under braking, no wonder why they were easily outbraked; it lacked cornering grip, it was not agile/difficult to turn between corners; Nakamoto admited they were only getting 70-80% of the maximum performance out of the bridgestones; Oh and the bike destroyed its tires after half distance - after which the pace droped gradually, sometimes the difference on pace to the fastest bike was as big as one sec. per lap! How many times did the best placed Honda finish over 10 seconds - sometimes even 20sec - Off 1st place last season?

On the other hand Rossi had the most well balanced bike on the grid and easy to handle. I don't know about the Ducati, that bike is still an enigma for me, but Stoner was fast on the Honda as well. The RC211V.

Oh I would give anything to see Rossi alongside Pedrosa on last years Honda...

You seem to think that Rossi said he could take over Pedrosas bike, don't touch a thing and go on to win. That is NOT what he said and as you might know, both stoner and Rossi has been on bikes that were unridable. You make sure to point out that Rossi has the most well balanced bike on the grid, lucky him, right? ........., he and JB made sure that bike became the most well balanced.
All problems you describe regarding the Honda are equally true to the other bikes on the grid. Go back a few years and take a look at Capirossi and the bridgestones. The other Duc riders could keep up with him the first 5 laps, after that he was the only one who could ride the bridgestones with any speed. That's what brought him the wins and podiums. He had the right settings and the right attitude. Rossi has complained about braking stability numerous times and it's all about trade offs. Get good and stable braking but ...... acceleration or ...... front end feel, and so on.
But in regard to the braking I suspect that Pedrosa will have to live with that because of his size and weight. He can't transfer as much weight as the others and this is one of the few disadvantages when it comes to small size and light weight.
You are talking about Honda here and they simply don't make bad motoGP bikes, but the competition is hard and it takes well working teams to make any bike perform at 100%.
Blame it on Honda for making the wrong team desitons but to blame it on the bike is lame.