Catlunya Race Talk - Spoiler

Oh ...., here we go again............................


Louise, you have to remember that on here, anyone who follows Rossi does it because they dony know any better, and cant possibly know that the handlebars go to the front of a motorbike. If you are a Rossi fan. then you are just following him coz youve seen the pics and like yellow.

(The above statement may contain traces of sarcasm)

Can we please remember that the forum was taken down the other week, not cause of a Rossi fan, but by someone gobbing off and trying to cause problems.

Seriously guys, I took a week or so off of here to let things calm after the TE ........, and I cant say I'm impressed with some of the crap I'm seeing now I'm back.

I dont think folks saying that Stoners bike is fast is a problem, its ...... obvious. What folks are also doing is givin props to the guy for being the only one to get regular results on it.

Everyone slags off the Rossi fans on here, but the folks who cant admit Rossi is one of the most successful riders ever are a bigger problem. I'm quite sure the same folks would have hated Roberts Snr, Ago, Hailwood, Read Rainey or Doohan and probably think Carmichael and Peterhansel, Lampkin, Lejeune, Tarres, Thorpe, DeCoster, Everts et al are over rated.

(I can almost hear Google grumble as some folks read the list, wondering if any of the names above have anything to do with motorbikes....)

If the forum is going to take the re cent TE debacle as a shining example of how to post on here, then I'm out of it.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jun 12 2007, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lampkin, Lejeune, Tarres, Thorpe, DeCoster, Everts
Now you're talking my language Pete.

.........and may I add Mikkola, Noycey, Vesty, Schrieber, Wolsink, Wiggy.

Don't leave Pete, I need you!

In fact, here's a great picture, just for you.

1863:attachment]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jun 12 2007, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now you're talking my language Pete.

.........and may I add Mikkola, Noycey, Vesty, Schrieber, Wolsink, Wiggy.

Don't leave Pete, I need you!

In fact, here's a great picture, just for you.

1863:attachment]


Jeez Burkey, is that a Suzuki TM 400 climbing the fence!!!!!!!

Youre more than welcome to add those guys, better throw Miller, Hannah, Malherbe and even Steve Webster in too!

Noycey, there was a real character in the Sheene/James Hunt vien.......


Pete

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 12 2007, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is a lot more to racing that straight line speed (except in drag racing) and Rossi has clearly won two races this season, proving that the Ducati's speed is not impossible to overcome.
True, not on a tracks with only one straight or a few very short ones.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The GP7 is a lot faster at the end of the straights, but also notice that Rossi's bike is actually quicker on short straights,
Things are changing fast and I suspect that the situation is a bit better but if we look a few weeks back, what you say is plain wrong.
The stregth of the ducati was not the top speed at the end but the accelleration at the start of the straight. (this of course resulted in higher top speed as well, and they may even have some help from their promoted airodynamics, but the raw power was the key) Any straight where the bike is upright for a second or more, the ducati blew away.
Anyone who care to look at China again will easily see this. The exit to the back straight was a very good example.
Rossi or Rossi's bike are faster while leaned over, thats it. If you refer to mugello all those short sprints, someone called it, are not straights for the bikes, it's only connectors between the turns and the bikes are more or less constantly leaned over to position to the next entry.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>it brakes better and changes direction faster. These things make up for the speed disadvantage well enough for Rossi to win races (if he doesn't make mistakes).
Is this anything but speculations?
I mean, power, demonstrated they way we saw it at Qatar an China and top speed are very easy to see and measure and you don't need to be a GP rider to demonstrate it. Even you and me could do a rolling drag with a pair of GP bikes and get comparable results as these guys.
Braking and turning, I wouldn't dream of getting comparable results as a GP rider, and therein is the problem, besides the bike you need a very skilled rider to get close to the bikes potential. These are both very skilled but are there no differences? Is it clear that Stoners disadvantage on the brakes and in the corners are purely due to the bike? Even when Stoner says they had a perfect setup for braking into the turns, forcing Rossi to go wide when he tried to pass?
Even if that's overcome how to measure those advantages against each other? One that takes no skill, the others that include all skills needed in Road Racing?

Sure I look at this with my Rossi goggles, but for honesty’s sake, you certainly have some kind of goggles on too. It's simply too convenient to drop the power part and compare speed to braking and cornering and declare them equal (if the rider is good enough)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jun 13 2007, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jeez Burkey, is that a Suzuki TM 400 climbing the fence!!!!!!!

Youre more than welcome to add those guys, better throw Miller, Hannah, Malherbe and even Steve Webster in too!

Noycey, there was a real character in the Sheene/James Hunt vien.......
Pete

Pete


...., I forgot Dunlop for the pure road guys!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Jun 12 2007, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe he gets a better drive out of the corners?

Compared to rossi he doesn't, and that's by a pretty good margine.
But the instant the electronics allow the engine to put out all the power....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jun 13 2007, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jeez Burkey, is that a Suzuki TM 400 climbing the fence!!!!!!!

Youre more than welcome to add those guys, better throw Miller, Hannah, Malherbe and even Steve Webster in too!

Noycey, there was a real character in the Sheene/James Hunt vien.......
Pete

Pete
I believe that is a TM400!

I can just about read the type, it says.......

"The finish of the second moto was fantastic. Mikkola chased Wolsink right to the flag, but Wolsink never backed off, not even to keep control on the berm. You can just see the chequered flag behind him."

Awesome days, my childhood!

How about the big sand specialist Van Velthoven, Pomeroy, Bad Brad, Rathmell, ....and what about Marty Moates, did you ever see him!

Oh, by the way, I beat Sammy Miller in a pre 65 trial many years ago when I was not long out of the schoolboys. It was an easy trial, he had a silly dab and I went clean.

Hey, I could talk this crap all night! Keep a level head!!!!!

By the way, my bike's faster than yours!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Louise @ Jun 12 2007, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you actually knew my point, then you would know that I wasn't saying that everything that Casey wins is down to the bike. I said 'it has something to do with his bike' so 'quite frankly' I wasn't being rude

NOTE: Please read this whole post. Reading only the bold parts totally changes the meaning of this post!

Louise, I don't think you and the others are on the same page. Some have been saying that Stoner only won because the Duc has such great top speed.

After thinking about the race discussions I have read so far this year, this seems to be the gist of the argument that is setting people off: "Even though Stoner finished first, Rossi out-performed him. The Doctor was the best rider on the track; the results don't show that Rossi performed better than Stoner because the M1 wasn't good enough. Stoner leaves Rossi behind on the straits; he doesn't ride as well as Rossi. The little guy is just lucky that he happened to be on the best bike this year."

It appears to me that you have misunderstood the posts in defense of Stoner and vice versa. You're reading these comments and interpreting them as saying, "the Ducati's top speed hasn't helped Stoner win GPs." Those who defend Stoner aren't saying that top speed has nothing to do with it; they are saying that top speed doesn't have everything to do with winning GPs. You're right Louise, a rider needs a good, fast bike to win. Both Stoner and Rossi have fast bikes.

In giving a possible explaination to Louises comments about Casey and his time with LCR. There are theories I have heard that as a result of Casey's exceptional start to the 2006 season the michelins that he was provided from mid way through the season were not anywhere near the standard of the Pedrosa Rossi etc michelins. And with Casey's immaturity he continued to press as though he had better tyres resulting in far too many dates with the bitumen. We must all acknowledge there are some politics at play within the MotoGP circus. I for one am actually glad that this occured because I think it made Casey a better more mature rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 13 2007, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In giving a possible explaination to Louises comments about Casey and his time with LCR. There are theories I have heard that as a result of Casey's exceptional start to the 2006 season the michelins that he was provided from mid way through the season were not anywhere near the standard of the Pedrosa Rossi etc michelins. And with Casey's immaturity he continued to press as though he had better tyres resulting in far too many dates with the bitumen. We must all acknowledge there are some politics at play within the MotoGP circus. I for one am actually glad that this occured because I think it made Casey a better more mature rider.And how good is the LCR Honda really? Casey was regularly near the front on that thing, admittedly before he fell off a lot of the time, but importantly in his defence...It was a customer RCV, not a factorybike, AND as you rightly say TP, he was way down the pecking order with Michelin.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. We should all be extremely be happy, we've got three truly great riders on three bikes that are getting closer in terms of competitiveness. It's a great season so far and how can it do anything but just get better and better.
Wise up. [edit] Cheer up!




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Jun 13 2007, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Even though Stoner finished first, Rossi out-performed him. The Doctor was the best rider on the track; the results don't show that Rossi performed better than Stoner because the M1 wasn't good enough. Stoner leaves Rossi behind on the straits; he doesn't ride as well as Rossi. The little guy is just lucky that he happened to be on the best bike this year

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jun 13 2007, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And how good is the LCR Honda really? Casey was regularly near the front on that thing, admittedly before he fell off a lot of the time, but importantly in his defence...It was a customer RCV, not a factorybike, AND as you rightly say TP, he was way down the pecking order with Michelin.

Well based on this season you'd think it was one of the worst with Careless Chucker and the terrible Honda this year.

But the customer RCV's were never terrible bikes. Pedrosa was on one but with a few bits to help him. He (Stoner) just happened to be over-exuberant in his first year.

Elias proved that the customer bikes were just as good, as did the KR team (although it only had a Honda engine).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Jun 13 2007, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa was on one but with a few bits to help him.When was Pedrosa ever on a customer Honda?

repsol, gresini, lcr, kr, in that order. gresini get limited factory bits sometime after the repsol guys. lcr pick up the scraps whilst kr make stuff in-house, like chassis mods and electronics, though they're not allowed to mess with the engine internals.

i laugh at some of the rubbish ppl splurt out on here sometimes, its a great read though. more pls MORE!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jun 13 2007, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When was Pedrosa ever on a customer Honda?

I think phleq might mean last year, when Hayden got the "Test part for new bike, go rearry srow, stop the championship win, ret robot beat you! From HRC with rove" Factory bike, and everybody else in the Honda camp rode bikes that weren't mechanical manure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ospi @ Jun 13 2007, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i laugh at some of the rubbish ppl splurt out on here sometimes, its a great read though. more pls MORE!!!

Nice argument, I see your point...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Jun 13 2007, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Elias proved that the customer bikes were just as good, as did the KR team (although it only had a Honda engine).

Elias didn't really find any form until Michelin decided to make tires specifically for him, something Stoner never got.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jun 13 2007, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When was Pedrosa ever on a customer Honda?

He wasn't on a customer bike, but the differences between his machine and Stoners were minimal.

Stoner had a race winning package last year, but he was a rookie. He was fast, but he made errors, its standard rookie stuff. If Pedrosa hadn't been around to overshadow him, Casey's rookie year would have been praised.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 13 2007, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner had a race winning package last year, but he was a rookie. He was fast, but he made errors, its standard rookie stuff. If Pedrosa hadn't been around to overshadow him, Casey's rookie year would have been praised.

Caseys rookie year got all the praise and reward it needed; a factory ride the next year.. Just because the media etc hyped Pedders, doesnt mean other teams, sponsors, execs werent watching Stoner's speed... All he needed was more front end feel (i.e Bridgestone tyres) and he is able to take it to arguably the best two wheeled racer of all time!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antfan @ Jun 13 2007, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Caseys rookie year got all the praise and reward it needed; a factory ride the next year.. Just because the media etc hyped Pedders, doesnt mean other teams, sponsors, execs werent watching Stoner's speed... All he needed was more front end feel (i.e Bridgestone tyres) and he is able to take it to arguably the best two wheeled racer of all time!!

Good call, what more reward does he need for it.

Do you think its possible that the Pedrosa hype worked to his advantage because he could get on with it quietly will the media was busy with Dani.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 13 2007, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good call, what more reward does he need for it.

Do you think its possible that the Pedrosa hype worked to his advantage because he could get on with it quietly will the media was busy with Dani.

Definately.. Pedrosa has been under the pump this year and the media attention from his country's press must be hugely burdening. Stoner on the other hand is relatively unknown in Australia and has really started, this year, to put GP back on the map in this coutry. I think Casey has really matured, and the relaxed, no pressure attitude at Ducati seems to suit him perfectly.. That with a few other factors have allowed him to really show what hes made of..

To be honest though, the media might have had a more intresting year if their cameras were trianed on Stoner not Pedrosa. Stoner's big smile might look goofy, but at least he does it more than once a year

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 13 2007, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good call, what more reward does he need for it.

Do you think its possible that the Pedrosa hype worked to his advantage because he could get on with it quietly will the media was busy with Dani.

Well, considering all his crashing last year I'm sure it helped that the media didn't run after him demanding an explanation all the time. That coud get to anyone.