Casey Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 11 2007, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, Vale got out ridden didn't he. And i know its early but i do start to wonder if Rossi's majic advantage where he seemed simply go faster than anyone else may have shrunk a bit.
were you watching the same race as me,reading this comment of yours makes me wonder.
stoner rode the perfect race for once and won with style,what i liked about stoners win was he always fought for the lead when it was obvous his bike was much fast than rossi's and he could have sat behind rossi and just mugged him on the straight, but to say vale was out ridden is crazy. you could planly see rossi was later on the brakes,on the gas sooner and carrieing more speed in the corners which is why it was such a close finish dispite haveing a much slower bike.
please tom alabouate why you think vale was out riden. i will take being drunk or drug abuse as a valid excuse for this remark.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 12 2007, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>. I'm just saying they both rode brilliantly

I agree with this bit, i don't wanna take anything away from rossi for putting up such a fight.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2007, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>were you watching the same race as me,reading this comment of yours makes me wonder.
stoner rode the perfect race for once and won with style,what i liked about stoners win was he always fought for the lead when it was obvous his bike was much fast than rossi's and he could have sat behind rossi and just mugged him on the straight, but to say vale was out ridden is crazy. you could planly see rossi was later on the brakes,on the gas sooner and carrieing more speed in the corners which is why it was such a close finish dispite haveing a much slower bike.
please tom alabouate why you think vale was out riden. i will take being drunk or drug abuse as a valid excuse for this remark.

There are 4 pages of discussion regarding the race with a few posts from me, feel free to read.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are 4 pages of discussion regarding the race with a few posts from me, feel free to read.
i have, there the rambleings of a madman.
and i have not read anything that explains you comment.

THAT WAS A STUPID FAST DUC!!!!

Good to hooper/suzuki for being right up the butt of pedrosa on the factory honda its about time suzuki got that boy a bike!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2007, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i have, there the rambleings of a madman.
and i have not read anything that explains you comment.

I'm not the only one in the world who can accept when rossi gets beaten, and i have gone into reasonable depth regarding the performance of both riders and both machines. Have any idea to put foreward yourself or any particular points of mine you could add to. Or are you just gonn aleave it at "your wrong"?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not the only one in the world who can accept when rossi gets beaten, and i have gone into reasonable depth regarding the performance of both riders and both machines. Have any idea to put foreward yourself or any particular points of mine you could add to. Or are you just gonn aleave it at "your wrong"?
i put my point as to why i say rossi was not "out ridden" you can see these points a few posts up
i wont leave it as "im wrong" as i and so it would seem many other forum member in this thread believe where right and your wrong. rather than trying to be clever why dont you just offer uip some facts as to what you believe rossi was "out ridden".
and i dont think stoner on a much faster bike winning my such a small margin is out riding rossi. as ive said before props to stoner ,not taking anything away from him at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2007, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i put my point as to why i say rossi was not "out ridden" you can see these points a few posts up
i wont leave it as "im wrong" as i and so it would seem many other forum member in this thread believe where right and your wrong. rather than trying to be clever why dont you just offer uip some facts as to what you believe rossi was "out ridden".

Because i have made a considerable amount of posts about this alreayd and don't want to just repeat myself for your sake. I have put foreward many points regarding Casey and Rossis race, and then you tell my i'm wrong because the Ducati was faster. Rossi was going faster than Casey through the slower corners particularly, but then the yamaha handles like a dream, they have worked on that all winter. So the reason why i think Rossi got out rode is because Casey was rode well enough to deny rossi the opertunity to use his advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi was going faster than Casey through the slower corners particularly, but then the yamaha handles like a dream, they have worked on that all winter. So the reason why i think Rossi got out rode is because Casey was rode well enough to deny rossi the opertunity to use his advantage.
ok tom, so i take it you dont believe the ducati power and top speed was a huge advantage for stoner.ummm ok.
and a point of fact..looked to me like the ducati handled like a dream to.. when you watch the race on tv did you notice the braking indicators on the screen,and did you notice the difference between rossi's brake indicator and stoners.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2007, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok tom, so i take it you dont believe the ducati power and top speed was a huge advantage for stoner.ummm ok.
and a point of fact..looked to me like the ducati handled like a dream to.. when you watch the race on tv did you notice the braking indicators on the screen,and did you notice the difference between rossi's brake indicator and stoners.

Stoners bike didn't look especially out of shape did it, so maybe some credit to the kid for getting it set up right, afterall this is the bike that spent the entire weekend trying to kill capirossi. And perhaps he would have looked a bit more ragged if he'd had to push harder, because as the race went, he played it kool and kept calm, then threw in a fast few laps to break the Doctor, job done.

And yes i saw the throttle and break bars, it looked like stoner rode him bike like it was a 990 and it worked out fine. So perhaps the "its a big 250" approach wasn't ideal this weekend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoners bike didn't look especially out of shape did it, so maybe some credit to the kid for getting it set up right, afterall this is the bike that spent the entire weekend trying to kill capirossi. And perhaps he would have looked a bit more ragged if he'd had to push harder, because as the race went, he played it kool and kept calm, then threw in a fast few laps to break the Doctor, job done.
agreed, so we find common ground once again tom.

Check that duc for cheating? av gas for fuel. I cant explain why the duc was so fast something smells in fishy to me. the other ducs were not that fast?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Mar 12 2007, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't say it's hilarious at all.

Would you say as an ex-rider that part of out-riding someone is keeping enough of a gap that the guy chasing you can't get close? Or is outriding someone gapping them sufficiently in the final laps of a race that they'll give up and settle for finishing behind you? Cos that's exactly what I'd call it. I can't call it anything else.

And why is this an absurd thread?

Because of what you claim.
Because rossi was there all the way, dispite the largest power disadvantage I've ever seen between two top riders.
Because out riding another rider with such a power advantage is not a term that apply unless you have some other major factors like pulling away in the slow section as well.
Out-riding is not winning with a major advantage, out-riding is winning dispite a disadvantage
Out-riding is not setting lap record on the last lap out of fear, out-riding is to wave to the public during the whole lap while the others are miles behind or something similar.
Rossi knew for quite a while that he couldn't win that race without Stoner making a major misstake. At the end Rossi had no incentive at all to push all the way to the edge when he started sliding, while Stoner didn't know about the gap (ref. crash.net)and rode like he still had the devil on his heals. And he did it flawless, but that did not make him out ride anyone. In other words, Rossi gave up when he was up close, with the power advantage Stoner had he could just as well had been a mile ahead. Stoner missed that and pushed hard to the end.
Nobdy out rode any one and nobody out shines anyone in this race.

One thing I cant help wondering about is how this argument would look like if it was Hopper in second and Pedrobot in first, with the same advantage/disadvantage.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R-46 @ Mar 12 2007, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Check that duc for cheating? av gas for fuel. I cant explain why the duc was so fast something smells in fishy to me. the other ducs were not that fast?

As I said somewere else. Ducati got it wrong and developed a 1096 instead of an 800

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoners bike didn't look especially out of shape did it, so maybe some credit to the kid for getting it set up right, afterall this is the bike that spent the entire weekend trying to kill capirossi. And perhaps he would have looked a bit more ragged if he'd had to push harder, because as the race went, he played it kool and kept calm, then threw in a fast few laps to break the Doctor, job done.That's out-riding right there, I defy anyone to tell me it ain't. Right Fish, you and me, carpark, now

The speed of the Ducati was a huge advantage or the lazy Yamaha was a huge disadvantage, whatever way you want to look at it. If you guys check back over last year, the fastest bike in a straight line was rarely the bike that won the race. It sure helps but there's an awful lot more to it than that, that's what we saw on Saturday. It could be a problem as the year goes on at certain places unless Yamaha and Rossi/Burgess sort it out. I've read that Rossi stated the Yamaha suffered in agility when set up for stability under extreme braking. Rossi was braking harder than anyone on Saturday so maybe that's the chance Yamaha took, aware of how fast the Ducatis were, though I'd guess they were caught out by the pace Stoner maintained and increased towards the end of the race.

But it doesn't matter. I'd be spouting the same stuff if Pedrosa, Hopkins, Capirossi or whoever won in similar circumstances. So would the Rossi fans, yes thats a dig and second place is the first of the losers, and if you're a big fan of anyone, it's hard to see them lose. Thing is, Vale has a lot of die-hard supporters so it'll always be like this.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, Vale got out ridden didn't he. And i know its early but i do start to wonder if Rossi's majic advantage where he seemed simply go faster than anyone else may have shrunk a bit. Like you said, the new school has landed, and it looks like Casey has got some serious talent to bring into the mix. What does the future hold for him.................we could see him totally rob Pedrosas spotlight this year!!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But when a thread is started to discuss the first victory of a a hugely talented rider and then a load of people decide that Rossi rode better than he did and only lost because of his bike, its a little unsporting. And its not the first time its happened.

Tom...you turned this thread into this sorry mess. Check out what you yourself said. Burky started the threat to discuss Casey...and you put Vale being 'outridden' into all of it. Until you did that, all of Vale's mindless cheerleading gang fans were happily in agreement that hell yes, Casey ran a great race.
But the definition of being outridden is not one rider crossing the finish line a couple of seconds behind another when both of them have run a flawless race to the best of their machinery's capabilities. Outriding someone implies leaving them in miles of your dirt and making them look like a beginner compared to a pro. That's not what happened.
And certainly don't go around blaming Vale's fans for standing up for him with a comment like that. Like I said..YOU started this. Take responsability. People will answer back when provoked.

^^well said bikergirl.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The speed of the Ducati was a huge advantage or the lazy Yamaha was a huge disadvantage, whatever way you want to look at it. If you guys check back over last year, the fastest bike in a straight line was rarely the bike that won the race. It sure helps but there's an awful lot more to it than that, that's what we saw on Saturday.

Eh, what was that we saw? The slower bike win, no, what then other than the one with the largest power advantage I've ever seen or are you suggesting that there were other things seen in that race that out-shine the Ducati power?

mmm Nice race,seems like stoner has found a bike he can stay on. The ducati had far too much power on the straight, vale did well to stay with stoner for the whole race, i cant say that stoney will be in there he is not as consistent as Rossi, Rossi will be at the top in Jerez without a doubt ,bike performed well on testing as we all know on the official test....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 12 2007, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Eh, what was that we saw? The slower bike win, no, what then other than the one with the largest power advantage I've ever seen or are you suggesting that there were other things seen in that race that out-shine the Ducati power?
the only thing i saw that out shone the ducati power was rossi's huge tallent staying with it and making up the difference in the parts where power was not a factor i.e the corners,
i dont think i can ever remember see'ing a bike that much faster than everything else on the track. 20kmh thats 12.4 mph faster on that straight.
they say shell bought a special fuel for that circuit, wonder what it was,nitromeathane me thinks

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 12 2007, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So power differences doesn't matter?
So, if we put him on and the rest of GP circus on 50cc Aprilias, EU-regulated and me on my Aprilia 250 and we all race, at Losail, I ride better than anyone in the world? I thought not. Stopp behaving silly.

Sounds a bit like how a race in North Korea would be arranged, just to prove that the commity forman is the champion in RR as well as in any other sport he has been engaged in. But I wouldn't bet he would have dispite the advantage
Yes
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I do believe the FIM would not allow one rider to ride a 250 against a bunch of 50s. Ducati is playing by the rules. Just because they got it right, their riders' accomplishments should be diminished?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Mar 12 2007, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And why is this an absurd thread?
Because a a bike with any number 1-45, 47-99 won the race. FIM rulebooks clearly state any bike without the number 46 cannot win a race legally or respectfully.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 12 2007, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>YOU stated that Rossi were out ridden be Stoner. I, and many with me say no, he didn't. Casey/Ducati did that with Rossi/Yamaha. That is NOT the same as Rossi rode better. Some here says Rossi would have won with the same power, but to me thats just speculations. I'm just saying they both rode brilliantly and they deserve equal credit for that. The achivement might be bigger on Stoners side as he had to cope with the pressure of having rossi behind him all the way but my guess is that after a while he rather had a laugh when he saw how easily he could pass on the straight.
You got it pretty much dead on there Babel. Hats off to both the riders, honestly. Well done to Stoner, there aren't many guys that can hold off Valentino's advances in the closing stages in the race. And same goes for Rossi, he rode a brilliant race on a bike that clearly is lacking in the testicular region. Although I will say one thing, I think taking his maiden MotoGP win might be a larger achievement than holding off Rossi's pressure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R-46 @ Mar 12 2007, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Check that duc for cheating? av gas for fuel. I cant explain why the duc was so fast something smells in fishy to me. the other ducs were not that fast?
The Ducatis were the four fastest riders on the weekend, Stoner, Capirossi, Hofmann and Barros in that order. They were separated by 5 kph

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Mar 12 2007, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So are you saying Stoner is the best rider in Moto GP this year ?

No - of course you aren't.

The kid rode a blinding race and he deserved his win - but one race isn't going to re-write the history books.
Exactly. Everyone seems bewildered that Stoner has actually won a race, but that doesn't mean he's going to win every race and become world champion. I bet you my house that Rossi would of beaten Stoner if they were both on the same bike, Yamaha or Ducati. Still, we can't go on because this is a debate that won't end unless people to decide to stop posting.