Casey Stoner Rumors, Still sick

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 11 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So Austin, Is it fare to say hayden fanboys hate dani because he was a challenging team mate in 06 ?
If you want to, you might be able to swing a few votes to your side. However, after the first round Hayden had Pedro covered. Sure, it wasn't a landslide but Hayden had been riding consistently all season. I think you'll find Hayden fanboys hate Pedrosa for torpedoing his teammate in the midst of a championship fight. Which I'd imagine is enough to enrage any fan. After a few years now, I don't particularly dislike the guy like I used to. I'm not a fan but he's a fast rider and keeps his mouth shut.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 11 2009, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and my reasons for hating gibbers are well documented on this forum and have nothing to do with challenging rossi. Im sure there are some who hate max and gibbers purely for challenging vale but there are so many other valid reasons. There are also many fans of other racers and fans who support no one in particular that dis like one or both of these. Thats face it, there not that likeable , bit like dani. So Austin, Is it fare to say hayden fanboys hate dani because he was a challenging team mate in 06 ?
Is it cause he is a rich kid that got a seat where he really wasn't supposed to have gotten one? Is he a snobby mofo? I always thought he was a decent dude so what would the reason be out of curiosity?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 11 2009, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you want to, you might be able to swing a few votes to your side. However, after the first round Hayden had Pedro covered. Sure, it wasn't a landslide but Hayden had been riding consistently all season. I think you'll find Hayden fanboys hate Pedrosa for torpedoing his teammate in the midst of a championship fight. Which I'd imagine is enough to enrage any fan. After a few years now, I don't particularly dislike the guy like I used to. I'm not a fan but he's a fast rider and keeps his mouth shut.
You know i no the many reasons for his dislike mate, just as with gibbers and biaggi.
It just rossi fans are so stereotyped but the same can be said of others to, even hayden fans. every rider has his fanboys not just rossi, they also have there more level headed fan's but thats doesn't mean there fanboys because we joke or dare question rather than except blindly.

so stoner fans, if you dont like others questioning stoners health problems , prove his case or stfu. name calling does not prove anything. At the moment its all just opinion as no facts are published, so a bit premature for criticizing the accusers imho.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 11 2009, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it cause he is a rich kid that got a seat where he really wasn't supposed to have gotten one? Is he a snobby mofo? I always thought he was a decent dude so what would the reason be out of curiosity?
i told many times on this forum and its way off topic fore here but without going intop it in depth.

Tamada, at motegi 03 i think

and his using kato's death for his own publicity..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 12 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i told many times on this forum and its way off topic fore here but without going intop it in depth.

Tamada, at motegi 03 i think

and his using kato's death for his own publicity..
ok. I didn't feel he used Kato's death for publicity but I don't know what your referring to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 11 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so stoner fans, if you dont like others questioning stoners health problems , prove his case or stfu.No need to stfu. It's distasteful to make fun of someone over their health issues, unless you've got damn good evidence that they're overblown, exaggerated, etc.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 11 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>name calling does not prove anything. At the moment its all just opinion as no facts are published, so a bit premature for criticizing the accusers imho.No, it's not premature to criticize that sort of tasteless, low-class ..... What is premature is the childish accusations that are are being criticized. This is the case regardless of what Stoner's issue ends up being.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 11 2009, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so stoner fans, if you dont like others questioning stoners health problems , prove his case or stfu. name calling does not prove anything. At the moment its all just opinion as no facts are published, so a bit premature for criticizing the accusers imho.


Ok Rog, I have to answer this part.

Why should CS' fans STFU and why should they have to prove his case at all?

I personally have no issue with people questioning CS' health issues, but will question some people's motives for question and will readily question the qualifications of many who make statements (not questions) and that applies for both sides and not just for CS.

You rightly state that no facts are known at this point, but you then say that it is to early to 'criticise the accusers' and I would tend to agree. But given that no facts are known is it also not to early to accuse?

You cannot have one without expecting rebuttals so if one side has to play in a given manner, than I would think that fairness dictates the other to do the same.

Personally, I could not care what CS' problem is as I have no right to know as it is a personal decision he has to make to release details should he chose to do so, I do just hope however that the illness is treatable for his sake (Iand whether he returns to bike racing is not important).

In the meantime people will speculate everything from an alien abduction, to having watched to many episodes of Neighbours as a chile, onto the usual mindgames and then into the legitimate and diagnosable illnesses. This speculation means that people will feel the need to argue and/or debate as is the want of this place, but when that 'debate' degenerates a forum or a thread as it has this one (my opinion there) then all sides and those involved need to take a hard look at themselves.



And Rog, on another note you have said before that you dislike CS not because of his ability, nor really his whining but you were turned off by the 'load obnoxious fans' that flooded this form in 2007 (I cannot find the specific post but you said it again around a month ago). So, let me ask you for your opinion of the influx of VR fans and their behaviours over the last few months, please and serious.





Garry

Looking back through this post, Ive noticed something, loads of folks are now talking bout Casey suffering from some kind of Psychosomatic problem and the very real effects that stress can have on someone....

Funnily enough, Myself and others have been saying this for about a year, pointing out that Casey manages to Psych himself out rather than get Psyched by others in a similar way to Freddie Spencer. Obviously, if a Rossi fan says this, (as I am, which makes me a 10 year old girl who likes yellow, not a 40 something bloke who has ridden bikes for 30 years) it is just a "Fanboy putting down the best rider" but now everyone has an opinion....Wooooo, it's all real!!!!!!! Lets all use big words! Casey is Ill! Yes, the guy is ill, physically or mentally, he is ill, and it's all very real. I wish him all the best, I have seen the effects of mental illness close up, it's a horrible debilitating disease, it wreck lives just as any other illness does.

Some folks can't handle that a lot of Rossi fans have been following bike racing for 30 odd years and know what they are talking about. This is the main reason I don't come on here as often as I used to, I'm passionate about bike racing, from grass roots club racing to GP, I have been for a long time

I just dont want to discuss this stuff with anyone who has a lower IQ than my couch anymore.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 12 2009, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok Rog, I have to answer this part.

Why should CS' fans STFU and why should they have to prove his case at all?

I personally have no issue with people questioning CS' health issues, but will question some people's motives for question and will readily question the qualifications of many who make statements (not questions) and that applies for both sides and not just for CS.

You rightly state that no facts are known at this point, but you then say that it is to early to 'criticise the accusers' and I would tend to agree. But given that no facts are known is it also not to early to accuse?

You cannot have one without expecting rebuttals so if one side has to play in a given manner, than I would think that fairness dictates the other to do the same.

Personally, I could not care what CS' problem is as I have no right to know as it is a personal decision he has to make to release details should he chose to do so, I do just hope however that the illness is treatable for his sake (Iand whether he returns to bike racing is not important).

In the meantime people will speculate everything from an alien abduction, to having watched to many episodes of Neighbours as a chile, onto the usual mindgames and then into the legitimate and diagnosable illnesses. This speculation means that people will feel the need to argue and/or debate as is the want of this place, but when that 'debate' degenerates a forum or a thread as it has this one (my opinion there) then all sides and those involved need to take a hard look at themselves.



And Rog, on another note you have said before that you dislike CS not because of his ability, nor really his whining but you were turned off by the 'load obnoxious fans' that flooded this form in 2007 (I cannot find the specific post but you said it again around a month ago). So, let me ask you for your opinion of the influx of VR fans and their behaviours over the last few months, please and serious.





Garry
right firstly of course stoner fans dont have to stfu but on the same token then cannot expect rossi fans or any other fans to stfu just because they question or take the piss . it's ... for tat but the fanboy finger pointing seems hypercritically one sided , wouldn't you agree ?
rossi's gay ect, casey is a hypacondriach or is weak minded. there are justifiable reasons foe oposing fans to question these things but the bitching seems to always come from one camp.


to answer your question, i take poster's on there own merit. there are stoner fans i respect and some i have little time for, the same goes for rossi fans. look at my friends list mate !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Aug 12 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Looking back through this post, Ive noticed something, loads of folks are now talking bout Casey suffering from some kind of Psychosomatic problem and the very real effects that stress can have on
Nobody doubts he is struggling. However, this is not something we expect or celebrate in our top flight athletes. He needs some perspective and perhaps some time to mature emotionally. He's had the weight his family's stability and a sub-par bike on his shoulders for far too long.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Aug 12 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Looking back through this post, Ive noticed something, loads of folks are now talking bout Casey suffering from some kind of Psychosomatic problem and the very real effects that stress can have on someone....

Funnily enough, Myself and others have been saying this for about a year, pointing out that Casey manages to Psych himself out rather than get Psyched by others in a similar way to Freddie Spencer. Obviously, if a Rossi fan says this, (as I am, which makes me a 10 year old girl who likes yellow, not a 40 something bloke who has ridden bikes for 30 years) it is just a "Fanboy putting down the best rider" but now everyone has an opinion....Wooooo, it's all real!!!!!!! Lets all use big words! Casey is Ill! Yes, the guy is ill, physically or mentally, he is ill, and it's all very real. I wish him all the best, I have seen the effects of mental illness close up, it's a horrible debilitating disease, it wreck lives just as any other illness does.

Some folks can't handle that a lot of Rossi fans have been following bike racing for 30 odd years and know what they are talking about. This is the main reason I don't come on here as often as I used to, I'm passionate about bike racing, from grass roots club racing to GP, I have been for a long time

I just dont want to discuss this stuff with anyone who has a lower IQ than my couch anymore.

Pete
And thats our loss imo pete. Get your jock ... back on here, you made a difference to many a debate in the past.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 12 2009, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>right firstly of course stoner fans dont have to stfu but on the same token then cannot expect rossi fans or any other fans to stfu just because they question or take the piss . it's ... for tat but the fanboy finger pointing seems hypercritically one sided , wouldn't you agree ?
rossi's gay ect, casey is a hypacondriach or is weak minded. there are justifiable reasons foe oposing fans to question these things but the bitching seems to always come from one camp.

I actually don't see it all one sided, but around 50/50, but yes I agree in that if one side makes a ludicrous statement that cannot be backed up with cold hard facts then the poster of that comment should expect someone to rebut in kind. It is the manner of the original post and subsequent rebuttal etc that will determine whether a post is treated with disdain or seriousness and certainly some people seem to take things to literally and/or attack the poster rather than the comment.

I disagree that the bitching always comes from one camp as I see it also as two sided and I think if threads are read open-minded it will become apparent. Certainly the bitching is dependent on the subject and/or topic and as suc hgiven teh recent successes of VR (this year people - settle) his side can gloat whilst others ..... (as you put it). But it is not one sided as there are elements on both sides who take the 'discussion' well beyond sensible and into the implausible/abuse arena and allow it to become personal.

As for your examples, personally I couoldn't care less if Rossi is gay/straight/bisexual or proven to be some kind of hermaphrodite as we should be admiting his bike riding/racing abilities, same goes for Stoner and others.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>to answer your question, i take poster's on there own merit. there are stoner fans i respect and some i have little time for, the same goes for rossi fans. look at my friends list mate !

Nice sidestep.

That said, I have people on here who I will read their posts as they tend to be reasonable, level headed and I have some who basically I skip or browse only when bored because you know that the posted comments will be inflammatory or total BS. These posters apply to all riders, all sides and in general would be like this irrespective of the situation of their preferred rider - but get them in person and many would get along brilliantly - the old two dimensional readings play their part.







Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 12 2009, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I actually don't see it all one sided, but around 50/50, but yes I agree in that if one side makes a ludicrous statement that cannot be backed up with cold hard facts then the poster of that comment should expect someone to rebut in kind. It is the manner of the original post and subsequent rebuttal etc that will determine whether a post is treated with disdain or seriousness and certainly some people seem to take things to literally and/or attack the poster rather than the comment.

I disagree that the bitching always comes from one camp as I see it also as two sided and I think if threads are read open-minded it will become apparent. Certainly the bitching is dependent on the subject and/or topic and as suc hgiven teh recent successes of VR (this year people - settle) his side can gloat whilst others ..... (as you put it). But it is not one sided as there are elements on both sides who take the 'discussion' well beyond sensible and into the implausible/abuse arena and allow it to become personal.

As for your examples, personally I couoldn't care less if Rossi is gay/straight/bisexual or proven to be some kind of hermaphrodite as we should be admiting his bike riding/racing abilities, same goes for Stoner and others.




Nice sidestep.

That said, I have people on here who I will read their posts as they tend to be reasonable, level headed and I have some who basically I skip or browse only when bored because you know that the posted comments will be inflammatory or total BS. These posters apply to all riders, all sides and in general would be like this irrespective of the situation of their preferred rider - but get them in person and many would get along brilliantly - the old two dimensional readings play their part.







Garry
never a true'er word said mate, funny how your a stoner fan and on my friends list go figure
like yourself i tend to name posters or quote specific posts rather than stereotype all fans together, its just such a lazy easy way to prove a non point and becoming quite tedious which was why i jumped on my soap box tonight, + a few beers

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Aug 11 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Looking back through this post, Ive noticed something, loads of folks are now talking bout Casey suffering from some kind of Psychosomatic problem and the very real effects that stress can have on someone....

Funnily enough, Myself and others have been saying this for about a year, pointing out that Casey manages to Psych himself out rather than get Psyched by others in a similar way to Freddie Spencer. Obviously, if a Rossi fan says this, (as I am, which makes me a 10 year old girl who likes yellow, not a 40 something bloke who has ridden bikes for 30 years) it is just a "Fanboy putting down the best rider" but now everyone has an opinion....Wooooo, it's all real!!!!!!! Lets all use big words! Casey is Ill! Yes, the guy is ill, physically or mentally, he is ill, and it's all very real. I wish him all the best, I have seen the effects of mental illness close up, it's a horrible debilitating disease, it wreck lives just as any other illness does.The way I see it is similar - whatever's going on is very real. Whether it's a virus, some sort of mental illness, or something else it's obviously affecting him in a huge way. A rider doesn't finish out one season with a broken scaphoid after the championship is lost (risking permanent damage) and just up and skip races in the middle of the next season unless something very real is wrong with him. You don't get to where he's at without some pretty substantial mental and physical strength.

Discussing what's wrong, why it might have happened, etc. is all fine. The childish approach of calling him a ..... and claiming it's "all in his head" is just way too low-class for me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Aug 11 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some folks can't handle that a lot of Rossi fans have been following bike racing for 30 odd years and know what they are talking about. This is the main reason I don't come on here as often as I used to, I'm passionate about bike racing, from grass roots club racing to GP, I have been for a long timeI don't think that anyone (or at least very few people) is taking issue with what real fans have to say. It's the tasteless lowlifes reveling in Casey's very real problems (whatever their cause) that we're taking issue with.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 12 2009, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>never a true'er word said mate, funny how your a stoner fan and on my friends list go figure
like yourself i tend to name posters or quote specific posts rather than stereotype all fans together, its just such a lazy easy way to prove a non point and becoming quite tedious which was why i jumped on my soap box tonight, + a few beers


To be honest, I am not really a fan of Stoner in terms that many call a fan (and actually I don't call myself a fan), but I respect him and will defend him as required (same for VR with the antigay .... in particular etc).

Jumkie called me a fan and really, if I am to be honest the last rider I genuinely watched because I was a fan (in MGP/500 terms) would have been McCoy (enjoyed Bayliss immenseley in WSBK and enjoying Spies this year). Before that I used to love watching Doohan, Rainey, Lawson etc and would wake at all hours to watch them race - that ended with McCoy and I just can't get into it as much in the four stroke era. But I still enjoy watching guys ride these bloody things at and often beyond limits that mere mortals can only fantasise about and for me the battle to tame these beasts is (as ridiculous as this will sound) and artistic symetrical poetry that for me is so damn beautiful to watch.

Fark, that has made me want to watch old reruns again







Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Aug 12 2009, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The way I see it is similar - whatever's going on is very real. Whether it's a virus, some sort of mental illness, or something else it's obviously affecting him in a huge way. A rider doesn't finish out one season with a broken scaphoid after the championship is lost (risking permanent damage) and just up and skip races in the middle of the next season unless something very real is wrong with him. You don't get to where he's at without some pretty substantial mental and physical strength.

Discussing what's wrong, why it might have happened, etc. is all fine. The childish approach of calling him a ..... and claiming it's "all in his head" is just way too low-class for me.
I don't think that anyone (or at least very few people) is taking issue with what real fans have to say. It's the tasteless lowlifes reveling in Casey's very real problems (whatever their cause) that we're taking issue with.
Well "all in the head" means mental illness where i come from and while calling him a ..... is harsh but it is far to say he is weaker in handling the pressure of fame and competition then the other in the paddock if mental illness caused by the pressure is his problem. its just word play going on here.

No, "all in the head" trivializes what can be very serious and very real ailments.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Aug 12 2009, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, "all in the head" trivializes what can be very serious and very real ailments.
in your opinion !
i dont think saying its all in his head means he is making it up or its trivial. it means its a mental illness rather than psyical. infact most that have said its more in his head have gone on to say they or friends and family have suffered the similar illnesses.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 11 2009, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i tend to name posters or quote specific posts rather than stereotype all fans together, its just such a lazy easy way to prove a non point and becoming quite tedious which was why i jumped on my soap box tonight, + a few beers
Just to clarify, when I said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 11 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's a tosser. No better than Pinky. Notice who he supports, notice he doesn't get flamed. Big surprise...
It wasn't a generalization of Rossi fans. My point was that he was making ridiculous posts but doesn't get flamed because it's not an attack on Rossi. Know what I mean? Stoner fans are in the minority at the moment, makes it easier to pick on them.

guys..guys.... wait till 3 round and then we will see if the virus still there or just stoner same like gibber or biaggi