Capirossi wants significant "improvement"

Capi is bar far one of my favorite riders, but his time is up. At his age, he is one injury away from knocking himself out of season. Suzuki have a lot of respect for the man and they don't want to tell him its time to go, as they should, but he really should bow out gracefully at the end of the season and call for them to hire Spies.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 18 2008, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Capi is bar far one of my favorite riders, but his time is up. At his age, he is one injury away from knocking himself out of season. Suzuki have a lot of respect for the man and they don't want to tell him its time to go, as they should, but he really should bow out gracefully at the end of the season and call for them to hire Spies.

This is exactly how i felt when Loris was at Ducati last year, but his early season performance and his results compared to Vermuellens have restored my faith in him. He actually seems to be leading the team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 18 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Capi is bar far one of my favorite riders, but his time is up. At his age, he is one injury away from knocking himself out of season. Suzuki have a lot of respect for the man and they don't want to tell him its time to go, as they should, but he really should bow out gracefully at the end of the season and call for them to hire Spies.

Why in the world would he do that... use your head man. What do you think Caparossi is going to do for a living if he decides to retire from racing? Become a brain surgeon? The guy is a racer, that's all he knows....it's his bread and butter, it's how he brings home the bacon. Why not try and stay on as long as you can especially if teams are still interested in what you have to offer.

I'm also a huge fan of Capirossi, but with the new tracks and injuries he is having a worse season than 2007.He has been too inconsistent.I'm currently having a hard time getting used to the fact that he has got to do better or get out.
Suzuki hired him to improve the bike probarbly first hand and then with the improvements maybe he could do well.So,as a developing rider in the team he can't say the bike is fine as is.It's good i think that he clearly knows what to improve during the winter tests on the 2009 bike.And the team could have use of him during the winter but the 2009 season has got to be much better than this one.Otherwise he got to quit.

He has said that he would like to end his career with Suzuki and 2009 is the last year i think.

Spies claims he isn't getting all of the potential out of the bike but he beat the two factory guys in his 3rd outing in CV's territory (rain) so what is it's actual current potential? Denning could have had a few other guys on the bike next year. Why didn't he go for it now and offer a 250 rider like Simoncelli a seat? Let Capper just test and run wildcard a few times here and there? That would have been my call. The new guy would get a year to become familiar and then go for a top 3 year, maybe even the championship. But I guess Denning being realistic has to face it, the championships for the next few years are already spoken for. Rossi, Stoner (if he regains form) and Pedrosa are the main contendors and they aren't going anywhere. Then there is Hayden, DeAngelis, and Lorenzo right behind them. Who can break through that group and isn't hired? No one.

It's funny to think mature riders are worried about their income after racing. Capper's net worth has to be in the millions by this point so he races to race. Money is not a problem. He isn't eating Kraft dinner in a trailer that is for sure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 18 2008, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is exactly how i felt when Loris was at Ducati last year, but his early season performance and his results compared to Vermuellens have restored my faith in him. He actually seems to be leading the team.
Holy ...., now I know the world is ending, I actually agree. (The bad new is, we will have to mot likely wait another year before you post something semi-intelligent cuz you burned up your one a year supply.)

Considering where he is in the standings and considering his age and number of seasons, do you think its prudent for a team to retain him. I agree that he has out-shown Vermi, but that in of itself isn't reason enough to keep him. Maybe that says something about both of them.

Which do you (or anybody can answer) think of all the factory teams has the weakest two man line up?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Sep 18 2008, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why in the world would he do that... use your head man. What do you think Caparossi is going to do for a living if he decides to retire from racing? Become a brain surgeon? The guy is a racer, that's all he knows....it's his bread and butter, it's how he brings home the bacon. Why not try and stay on as long as you can especially if teams are still interested in what you have to offer.
Becasue he is 12th in the classification and its his 20th season. Alex Barros was still fast, but it doesn't mean they should hang around forever, which these two almost have.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Sep 18 2008, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The new guy would get a year to become familiar and then go for a top 3 year, maybe even the championship. But I guess Denning being realistic has to face it, the championships for the next few years are already spoken for. Rossi, Stoner (if he regains form) and Pedrosa are the main contendors and they aren't going anywhere. Then there is Hayden, DeAngelis, and Lorenzo right behind them.
I would remove DeAngelis from that list and replace it with Dovi. I would lke nothing more on that Repsol team for Dovi to kick Peders ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 18 2008, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would remove DeAngelis from that list and replace it with Dovi. I would lke nothing more on that Repsol team for Dovi to kick Peders ....
Agree

Dovi is an intelligent and consistent rider, who has shown great finesse since he first came to prominence in 125's. Problem being - hate to say it, so is Pedders. Andrea's main advantage over the diminutive ....? he's way better on the brakes, and he knows how to make it stick.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 18 2008, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which do you (or anybody can answer) think of all the factory teams has the weakest two man line up?

You won't agree or like it but IMO Kawasaki.

At least Suzuki can boast wins and podiums in recent times (from their riders and bikes).




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 19 2008, 02:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which do you (or anybody can answer) think of all the factory teams has the weakest two man line up?

The Suzuki and Kawasaki line-up are probably the weakest of all the Factory like ups. In terms of pure racing capability, on well sorted bikes, I'm guessing the Kawasaki boys have a very slight edge against the Suzuki guys.

But for bike development, I guess Suzuki have the upper hand with Capirossi's vast experience. The 3 remaining guys don't have great track records on leading bike development. Vermeulen and Hopkins havent really quite put that much of an improvement during the KRJR-Hopkins season. Hopkins-West seems to have let Kawasaki backpedal.

Melandri was pretty much on Satelite bikes all his motogp career and he did a lot less on his first year on a factory effort.

I don't really know if Melandri's problem rooted from the fact that he was trying to make the Ducati a Honda, or himself failing on becoming a 'Stoner' type of rider. I'm thinking the latter as the Alice boys seem to have adopted better to the bike than Marco has.

I also question the commitment of the Kawa riders. Marco seem to give up easily if things don't start right (just like his Yamaha & Ducati days). He seems to give up very easily. Hopkins have issues outside of Motogp to deal with and seemed complacent now that he got a lot of greens.

Vermulen might be more committed on trying to prove his place on the top class. This may very well be Capirossi's last season so I guess he would want to go out on a decent position.

So IMO, the Kawa pair are the weakest lineup next season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 18 2008, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would remove DeAngelis from that list and replace it with Dovi. I would lke nothing more on that Repsol team for Dovi to kick Peders ....

I agree with that call. I actually got them mixed up I meant Dovitzioso.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mumu37 @ Sep 19 2008, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Suzuki and Kawasaki line-up are probably the weakest of all the Factory like ups. In terms of pure racing capability, on well sorted bikes, I'm guessing the Kawasaki boys have a very slight edge against the Suzuki guys.

Oh really? I doubt it. Suzuki's squad is consistently top ten, potentially top 5 and sometimes even on the podium. Kawi...none of the above. Kawi has the worst lineup this year by far. The bike is under developed soley because of the rider lineup. Bartolemy stated this clearly in an interview at Indy with West in the background. West can't deliver and Hopper is constantly injured missing a series of races and the spring tests which really ...... up the machine development.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mumu37 @ Sep 19 2008, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So IMO, the Kawa pair are the weakest lineup next season.

I rate Melandri highly and with him on board they may then be equal to Suzuki because Hopper is fairly equal to CV. For sure he is a great addition to the Kawi team and relegates Hopper to the second rider status before the ink dried on the contract IMO. If you need proof of this simply re-watch Laguna a couple of years ago when he was run off track by Roberts during practise and wiped out hard, broke something like his ankle then made the podium in the race. If they can give him the bike he wants (tourqey smooth predictable power, stable chatter free braking & good handling) he will bring them success. They may even have a better lineup than Suzuki but the bike will likely never be as good.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Sep 19 2008, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh really? I doubt it. Suzuki's squad is consistently top ten, potentially top 5 and sometimes even on the podium. Kawi...none of the above. Kawi has the worst lineup this year by far. The bike is under developed soley because of the rider lineup. Bartolemy stated this clearly in an interview at Indy with West in the background. West can't deliver and Hopper is constantly injured missing a series of races and the spring tests which really ...... up the machine development.



I rate Melandri highly and with him on board they may then be equal to Suzuki because Hopper is fairly equal to CV. For sure he is a great addition to the Kawi team and relegates Hopper to the second rider status before the ink dried on the contract IMO. If you need proof of this simply re-watch Laguna a couple of years ago when he was run off track by Roberts during practise and wiped out hard, broke something like his ankle then made the podium in the race. If they can give him the bike he wants (tourqey smooth predictable power, stable chatter free braking & good handling) he will bring them success. They may even have a better lineup than Suzuki but the bike will likely never be as good.

^+1

thats what i was thinking too.

as an aside, why has the whole furore about spies only developed now? after his sterling ride at indy? after all, suzuki had re-signed cappers & CV a bit before this. why no fuss then?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Sep 19 2008, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as an aside, why has the whole furore about spies only developed now? after his sterling ride at indy? after all, suzuki had re-signed cappers & CV a bit before this. why no fuss then?

Because now people have the hindsight of a positive Indy performance, when the decision was actually made things were much less clear.

I think the Suzuki fans were sure Asper or Swantz somehow were putting a 3rd and maybe a 4th bike on the grid and Spies could fit in there early in the year.

And I actually read the article mentioned at the start of this thread last night and Capper said nothing in it about demanding improvements at all so the title is bogus.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 19 2008, 01:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You won't agree or like it but IMO Kawasaki.

At least Suzuki can boast wins and podiums in recent times (from their riders and bikes).
I'm laughing at myself. When I asked the question, which two-man factory line up, I actually forgot about Kawasaki in my mental picture of the teams.

But actually Garry, now that I think about it, I still think Suzuki has the weak's two-MAN line up. But as you correctly pointed out, the machines will make the difference in results.

But in my mind I think:

Hopkins-Melandri are better riders combined than Capi-Vermi, I'm speaking of the men. But yes once you through their machines into the mix (which really you can't seperate) then yes, Kawasaki has the weakest potential results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Sep 19 2008, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as an aside, why has the whole furore about spies only developed now? after his sterling ride at indy? after all, suzuki had re-signed cappers & CV a bit before this. why no fuss then?
No, there was fuss then, and it intensified now. And rightly so considering that Spies has improved over the three wild card rides every race, culminating in beating the two factory regulars on the same machine on arguably equal footing.

On top of that, I think it was a dumb mistake to have signed Capi & Vermi before seeing what were to be the results at Indy (which could have turned out Spies getting a fourth). In the rain, while Vermi is considered a ....... rain "specialist". There is no excuse for Capi & Vermi to have been beat by a guy who previous had only raced twice on a machine the duo knew fully well.

I don't think people fully appreciate what Spies has done. In just three wildcards, Spies has racked up almost half to a third of the championship points that West, Hopkins, De Puniet, Melandri, De Angelis, and Guintoli (all GP regulars).

I think Suzuki ...... up. I should be hearing from Suzuki, 'we tried to sign him, offered him this deal, but he turned it down.' Other than that, I think they made a mistake. I think Capi is better racer than Vermi but his points don't show it, only until recently has Vermi out shown him. Capi has 86 championship points, that is a wopping one more than James Toesland who started the year in fine fashion but has sank like the American financial markets. Toesland is the only credible rider-machine combo legit enough to say he actually beat somebody (and it may interest you to know that Spies equalled Toeslands best finish, 6th); other than that he is ahead of the all star list of (code for bottom-dwellers):West, Hopkins, De Puniet, Melandri, De Angelis, and Guintoli. Suzuki should have said, hey, we got a great cush job for you as our test rider, but for now we need to make room for a young gun. Perhaps at least this way, they might have the opportunity to have two bikes on the podium at Laguna next year (when was the last time that happened?)

I have yet to hear a convincing argument here or anywhere, that Suzuki made a great decision resigning what surely will be two mid packers, again. They need to take a gamble (and not much of a gamble being that Spies had shown he could be a top finisher). I fully believe that if Spies had the opportunity of learning the bike over preseason that he would beat Suzuki's current top rider--Vermuelen. Think about this for a moment: where has Vermi excelled? In the rain and at Laguna. Both of these conditions Ben Spies has being strong. Spies beat him in his own rain element, and finished a respectable 8th at Laguna (while suffering from a major medical issue, less you forget he actually was medivac to have an emergency appendectomy!) Other than that Vermi is an empty bubble in the dry. The fact is Vermi is beating Capi, so why oh why would they resign the guy. Some of you might say, well it helps to have an experienced guy developing. I say yeah, get him to be a test rider then, and put in a hungry young gun with a chip on his shoulder aiming to prove a point.

...., can I get some help here? Am I the only guy who sees this .... slipping from the grasp of this perennial-case-study-of-mediocrity that is Rizla Suzuki? And really, I am NOT a fan of this guy. For one, I hate Texas (and though he was born in Tenn, he claims this State; plus I don't like this guy's demeanor--not humble enough for me). But one thing is for sure, he is a MotoGP caliber rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 20 2008, 05:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> I'm laughing at myself. When I asked the question, which two-man factory line up, I actually forgot about Kawasaki in my mental picture of the teams.

But actually Garry, now that I think about it, I still think Suzuki has the weak's two-MAN line up. But as you correctly pointed out, the machines will make the difference in results.

But in my mind I think:

Hopkins-Melandri are better riders combined than Capi-Vermi, I'm speaking of the men. But yes once you through their machines into the mix (which really you can't seperate) then yes, Kawasaki has the weakest potential results.


I didn't realise that your were talking 2009 line ups but it souldn't change my opinion anyway in al reality.

Capirossi - admittedly at the end of his career but he is a genuine highly talented racer with World titles in 250cc and numerous MotoGP race wins. Pure pedigree that cannot be ignored or discounted.

Vermuelen - admittedly I would have liked to have seen him 'come on' a bit more but he still has more race wins than others who seem to be rated higher (ie. Edwards, Hopkins) and a few podiums. IMO, he has the talent but staying at Suzuki has guiaranteed that 2009 will be his last year in MGP (IMO)

Hopkins - we disagree on this one (I recall from past discussions), but for a person who comes so highly regarded (in media and some forums), I personally feel that he is a massive letdown and has failed to deliver at all. Yes, he has had podiums and some good results, but if allowance is made for him being hamstrung by his machines (Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki), then the same allowance must apply to Vermuelen. IMO, Hopkins has shown that he is not the 'top flight' of MGP and IMO getting to teh end of his MGP life. As with Vermuelen, I feel that 2009 should be Hopkins last year in MGP should results not improve dramatically.

Melandri - oodles and oodles of talent if he gets his head right. IMO, amongst the top talents in the series but appears needy and very dependent on the team dynamic and environment in order to suceed (just as Rossie predicted). If you look at 2008, one must say that he is to a degree 'talentless' but those that have watched long enough know that is wrong. The concern with Melandri is that he appears mentally destroyed and lacking in confidence at all, so at this stage he is low on the scale.

My thoughts anyway.





Garry