Of course I have no way of knowing - it's just my opinion... but I strongly suspect Ducati believed it was all going to magically gel once Rossi and Burgess came aboard. I think they were living in denial right up until Rossi did his first test. Then reality hit them.
I'd second that opinion - now it's for real - share the glory or share the blame.
VR and JB aren't likely to be going to anything on 2 wheels after Duc - so they'll be focused more on going out in glory
Well whether it's technologically more desirable or not - I'd like to see MotoGP get away from the current high corner speed - and get back to brake, drift, point & squirt. CS has shown that when this works - it's a winner - and looking back at the corner shots of hiim at PI 2010 - it's great to watch. I just hope that the regs haven't castrated the 1000's before they start. ImO - alongside Stoner - this is a style that Rossi, Pedro, Hayden know. Simo, Spies and maybe Lollo are young enough to learn - and if not let it be a battle of riding styles
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I think what people are saying is that Stoners style was something he had to invent to make the Ducati go fast.Not that the bike was developed around some unique style of riding. Kind of which came first, chicken or the egg. I think the moral to this whole story is, the Italians are not good listeners, and lack in developmental skills.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I think what people are saying is that Stoners style was something he had to invent to make the Ducati go fast.Not that the bike was developed around some unique style of riding. Kind of which came first, chicken or the egg. I think the moral to this whole story is, the Italians are not good listeners, and lack in developmental skills.
I'm the same mate, i got into moto-gp around 2003 and loved to see them all getting broadside. The racing was a lot closer back then and IMO more entertaining. I do reckon that the new regs will probably choke the 1000's, its not like the powers that be have got much right in the past 3-4years is it?! Tyre rules, 800cc etc etc. I live in hope though!
I think what people are saying is that Stoners style was something he had to invent to make the Ducati go fast.Not that the bike was developed around some unique style of riding. Kind of which came first, chicken or the egg. I think the moral to this whole story is, the Italians are not good listeners, and lack in developmental skills.
Aye, good points! Will be interesting to see what the craic is after the first 1000cc tests, thats when we will see the true extent of the levels Ducati have gone to to make the bike competitive. 4 races in though and it already looks like they've had a kick up the arse...
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I can assure that Spies has the point and shoot technique down pat after winning 3 AMA titles on a superbike. All but a few tracks in America are point and shoot
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
why are you in constant denial ??
don't you get it .... nobody else in the GP does what Stoner does ....... check the first post in this thread .....
Rossi and Pedro certainly never used the technique Stoner is using .......
Hayden ........ no its not the same, he doesn't power on into the corner .......... thats the bit folk don't get. Its the getting the back out that slows the bike down then while th rear wheel is spinning change weight distribution to get the traction back for acceleration out ......
You can't try and attribute Stoners prowess onto Rossi when there is no evidence at all that he uses the technique that Stoner does .......
and now Burgess, Stoner, Rossi, Capi, and Bayliss are saying so .......... why do you disagree ?
and if Rossi does know this technique ....... WhyTF is he not using it ????
Can't you make a sensible post wihout the falacies and fantasies ....
why are you in constant denial ??
don't you get it .... nobody else in the GP does what Stoner does ....... check the first post in this thread .....
Rossi and Pedro certainly never used the technique Stoner is using .......
Hayden ........ no its not the same, he doesn't power on into the corner .......... thats the bit folk don't get. Its the getting the back out that slows the bike down then while th rear wheel is spinning change weight distribution to get the traction back for acceleration out ......
You can't try and attribute Stoners prowess onto Rossi when there is no evidence at all that he uses the technique that Stoner does .......
and now Burgess, Stoner, Rossi, Capi, and Bayliss are saying so .......... why do you disagree ?
and if Rossi does know this technique ....... WhyTF is he not using it ????
Can't you make a sensible post wihout the falacies and fantasies ....
Maybe others are choosing/chose not to adopt that style of riding because it had a 50/50 success rate (this is by no means a slight on Stoner, he had to ride it like that to get it to the top, fair play to him), he binned it almost as much as he won on it! The guy has incredible skill and balls to do what he did on that bike, maybe the other riders have a little more self preservation and a little less skill. I dont think Stoner was happy to be riding the bike like that, but he felt he had no choice. He certainly aint riding like that now, is he?
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
No its just the technique ....... he went back to his experience from his younger days how do you make a .... front end feel better? get the arse end as loose as a goose and deal with the traction loss and balance with weight shift and lean etc.
he looks like he had the skill here:
http://www.caseystoner.com.au/process.php?image=1163743404&type=main
he definitely had to have it on one of these:
http://www.caseystoner.com.au/process.php?image=1163743659&type=main
McCoy was similar, and he had a similar background ( though not as accomplished a proponent of the technique as Stoner ) ......... little Aussie kids on screaming KX60's who know how to ride with the rear wheel spinning like a ..... and control the bike speed with slides .......... they are like a swarm of angry bees if you ever find yourself on a track near them
Rossi and the other guys will only get the skill if they put in a few hours on a speedway bike with no brakes ......... and I doubt that is going to ever happen ..... Rossi is an edge of traction seeking expert, taking it past traction and then dealing with that he does not do nor exhibit in a sustained race situation. Ergo ...... he has no idea of what Stoner does ......
No its just the technique ....... he went back to his experience from his younger days how do you make a .... front end feel better? get the arse end as loose as a goose and deal with the traction loss and balance with weight shift and lean etc.
he looks like he had the skill here:
http://www.caseystoner.com.au/process.php?image=1163743404&type=main
he definitely had to have it on one of these:
http://www.caseystoner.com.au/process.php?image=1163743659&type=main
McCoy was similar, and he had a similar background ( though not as accomplished a proponent of the technique as Stoner ) ......... little Aussie kids on screaming KX60's who know how to ride with the rear wheel spinning like a ..... and control the bike speed with slides .......... they are like a swarm of angry bees if you ever find yourself on a track near them
Rossi and the other guys will only get the skill if they put in a few hours on a speedway bike with no brakes ......... and I doubt that is going to ever happen ..... Rossi is an edge of traction seeking expert, taking it past traction and then dealing with that he does not do nor exhibit in a sustained race situation. Ergo ...... he has no idea of what Stoner does ......
Noone is disputing the fact the guy has the skill to ride in that particular way, the problem is he shouldnt have needed to! He aint riding the Honda the same way he rode the Ducati, all proven by by the fact that he hasnt binned it 4 races in (on his own accord), he's never treading that fine line between optimum speed and on his arse.
As for Rossi, i take it you didnt watch PI 2009?
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I did and I don't think Rossi was capable of sustaining it lap after lap nor do I believe he specifically knew what he was doing apart from ..... thats what it would take to keep up with Stoner ....... at least for a few laps
And Stoner has had the arse out on the Honda quite regularly.
I did and I don't think Rossi was capable of sustaining it lap after lap nor do I believe he specifically knew what he was doing apart from ..... thats what it would take to keep up with Stoner ....... at least for a few lapsFor a rider who rides inside traction ....... its probably pretty spooky, hence why Rossi wants the bike changed.
And Stoner has had the arse out on the Honda quite regularly.Perhaps we need to wait for PI again to see it in its prime Well PI and one of the corners at Valencia
There really is no reasoning with you is there? Watch P.I again, i think you're in denial that someone else rode just like Stoner did lap after lap. Stoner wanted the bike changed as well, they didnt do it for him, hence why he moved. Would you want to ride a bike on the edge race after race? Stoner didnt and Rossi doesnt, only difference is Rossi has the powers (wether it be money or some other mystical power) to get the bike changed.
Saying Rossi doesnt know how to get it broadside is like saying you're not completely obsessed with Casey, have you ever seen the episode of Alan Partridge, where he meets his biggest fan?Barrymachine meets Casey
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
That super high speed corner at PI and getting it crossed up power drifting is not a prime example of the style that Stoner used on the Ducati. Most all GP riders can do what Rossi and Stoner were doing that day on that corner.
why are you in constant denial ??
don't you get it .... nobody else in the GP does what Stoner does ....... check the first post in this thread .....
Rossi and Pedro certainly never used the technique Stoner is using .......
Hayden ........ no its not the same, he doesn't power on into the corner .......... thats the bit folk don't get. Its the getting the back out that slows the bike down then while th rear wheel is spinning change weight distribution to get the traction back for acceleration out ......
You can't try and attribute Stoners prowess onto Rossi when there is no evidence at all that he uses the technique that Stoner does .......
and now Burgess, Stoner, Rossi, Capi, and Bayliss are saying so .......... why do you disagree ?
and if Rossi does know this technique ....... WhyTF is he not using it ????
Can't you make a sensible post wihout the falacies and fantasies ....
Zippy, the denial is all yours - accept the simple facts - CS is a good racer, BUT not the only one.
Read other peeps' posts and think about them before you puke out the next round of CS is G-O-D of racing
The style you describe as the Gospel of point and squirt according to St CS was potentially honed to extremes out of desparation - sometimes it worked and sometimes it DNF'd - and he certainly isn't riding the Honda that way.
Rossi was riding the 990 Honda in drift, point, squirt mode and winning races - oh don't forget and championships before CS ever went to Duc.
It's going to be fun when Simo catches up to & challenge CS and just to keep your heartrate accelerating when JB/VR get the Duc going and chase him down.
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
No its just the technique ....... he went back to his experience from his younger days how do you make a .... front end feel better? get the arse end as loose as a goose and deal with the traction loss and balance with weight shift and lean etc.
he looks like he had the skill here:
http://www.caseystoner.com.au/process.php?image=1163743404&type=main
he definitely had to have it on one of these:
http://www.caseystoner.com.au/process.php?image=1163743659&type=main
McCoy was similar, and he had a similar background ( though not as accomplished a proponent of the technique as Stoner ) ......... little Aussie kids on screaming KX60's who know how to ride with the rear wheel spinning like a ..... and control the bike speed with slides .......... they are like a swarm of angry bees if you ever find yourself on a track near them
Rossi and the other guys will only get the skill if they put in a few hours on a speedway bike with no brakes ......... and I doubt that is going to ever happen ..... Rossi is an edge of traction seeking expert, taking it past traction and then dealing with that he does not do nor exhibit in a sustained race situation. Ergo ...... he has no idea of what Stoner does ......
watch phillip island 2000 mate, Rossi the edge of traction expert, smokes the rear tyre of the nsr500 every single lap on the final turn, and doesnt get out of shape once from what I remember.
You guys are making this more complex than it is. Rossi is arguably the GOAT, while an argument probably exists against this claim, the numbers easily favor him. I think Rossi is capable of sliding the bike around plenty, PI 2010 is a perfect example. What Rossi is not able to do, is ride the D16 the way CS does and perform at the same level. Simply, in this case, Stoner gets the nod. If Rossi could do it well enough to compete, he would. Instead, he's languishing almost 16 seconds behind and demanding a completely new machine for next year.
If Ducati can give Rossi the machine he desires, he'll find the front end of the grid immediately. If not, he's off to go-garts, big wheel's or some other form of sport...
If Ducati can give Rossi the machine he desires, he'll find the front end of the grid immediately. If not, he's off to go-garts, big wheel's or some other form of sport...
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Lame as usual.
Dude, you try to cover your bases, but your bias always shines through. So Ducati did recognize they had problems, but maybe didn't trust Stoner's feedback, the only guy winning on the machine? Uhm, who's fault would that be? Answer: Ducati. I see your thinly veiled attempt at making Stoner the incompetent part of the equation. It didn't take JB or VR to tell then they had problems, they should have known. ...., your casual spectator knew the .... had horrible front end problems, while even JB was in denial. That is until his boy rode the ....... thing. "Objective criticism" hahahahaha. Read much? Look back to his assessment last year. No, I wouldn't call it objective, but I would call it a reality check.
So then, when Rossi has a whole year and every possible resource to "fix" the Duc, if he doesn't win the title or at least the same number of wins Casey had last year, will you declare him (VR) as .... developer?
And I'll add, when will you Boppers (and your membership in the sorority is unquestionable) finally realize that the man would be a shadow of his career if he didn't have every possible leverage and benefit in the sport? The missing point that you boys keep missing in the "can Stoner develop a bike" discussion is that Stoner, like 90% of the riders in GP, are not given the benefit of moving Heaven and Earth; so that they may be ushered into the top step for the cult-following-hordes inclined to follow the commercial-driven-star they feed to you.
Exactly, How can anyone compare development skills when Stoner, Hayden, Melandri & Capi basically had the same bike at the end of the season as what they had at the start. Supposedly because of funding. Then when Rossi lands there they dump their superbike factory team & commit totally to concentrating on their MotoGP project. If you want to call development skills "the amount of cash thrown at your bike" then yes Vale is king and everyone else sucks. He is the only rider with seemingly unlimited resources no matter where he rides. That's far from a level playing field as far as bike development goes.
