Bridgestone, Stoner, Rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 21 2008, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Ogunski, I can't really say I think it’s a good idea. It would take the competitiveness out of qualifying and it might also be more dangerous for the faster guys coming up the field because they were relegated to the back--to make it more “interesting” for us or a perception that Q tires should be taken out of the equation. Good try though; at least you are thinking buddy.


^ some say danger others say excitement. Why not make these pampered premadonnas earn their pay for real.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 21 2008, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope, I do not even read MCN. I prefer GPone.com...
I would not dismiss the significance of Rossi asking for a specific development and Stoner immediately intervening to dismiss that as unimportant. This is not only mind games, it is battling for determining the direction of Bridgestone development efforts. It is naif to think that Bridgestone can accomodate all different requests, even if their resources are not stretched their focus will be either one way or the other. i wish i could speak italian

i'm not dismissing the significance j4rn0 but it's not that big a deal. is it not wholly predictable that rossi would make this request seeing as he and every other bridgestone rider except for casey look like they need every possible advantage on qualifiers? and stoner hasn't changed his tune at all from last year, consistently dismissing the uber importance of qualifying on the front row.

it may not be the first time bridgestone have been asked to supply a front qualifier but rossi being his typically persuasive self, might convince them to give it a try. and so bridgestone go make a few front qualifiers and hand them out to all their riders, what of it? it's a reasonable thing for rossi or any other bridgestone rider to ask for given michelin's strong showing on quallies, though personally i think he'd be wiser working on his race set-up.

it seems to be the normal run of things to me, the wheels of progress continue to turn and isn't there a little bit of mind games in everything rossi and stoner say anyway? when the flag drops the ........ stops. a truly cringe worthy cliche i know, but relevant. in truth, rossi is some ways off taking stoner's place as bridgestone's golden boy so i can't see a seachange in bridgestones development direction just yet, to think that might be naive.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 19 2008, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you give too much credit to Stoner/Rossi as the be all/say all/end all in what Bridgestone plans to do. It’s not up to them, its up to the guy running the Bridgestone show, and as far as I can see, they’re intention is total domination.excellent point jumkie.

i found some news today on the stones at qatar it wasnt just rossi who had problems a few other riders did also, i also read in an interview where lorenzo was saying that rossi couldnt fight because of tyre problems. something alot of us said in the beggining but also alot who wanted to dismiss it, anyway here it is:



Most of the pre-race buzz is about the up-close-and-personal rivalry between young Spanish stars Jorge Lorenzo and Dani Pedrosa, but Valentino Rossi and his team are quietly confident that the Italian will battle for the win this Sunday in Jerez.as long as the tires work.

Ironically Rossi, who famously demanded that Bridgestone supply him with tires in 2008 understands that his problems in Qatar were a result of Michelin tires working better on the Yamaha than Bridgestones, something that the Japanese tire manufacturer also seems to admit.

You could read it between the lines in the Bridgestone press release following Casey Stoner's win the season opener and you could see as you watched Rossi go backwards down the standings after the opening laps in Qatar. In fact if you look carefully at photos of the right side of Rossi's rear slick you can see that he was in trouble very early in the race.

Now other Bridgestone riders are acknowledging problems. Rizla Suzuki's Chris Vermeulen had to pit to change a front tire but was also having trouble with the rear. Pramac Ducati's Toni Elias said that he felt so unsafe that he thought about pulling out very early in the race but decided to carry on to pick up a few points. He was 14th while Vermeulen, after his tire change, was 17th and last.

The only crasher of the event, Alex De Angelis (Gresini Honda), was also on Bridgestone tires.

In fact, it appears that the only Bridgestone riders who got through the race without tire troubles were Stoner, the winner, and Loris Capirossi, eighth in his first race on the Rizla Suzuki. Bridgestone acknowledged problems due to the cool track temperature, and also that Michelin still holds the advantage with qualifying tires, as evidenced by the all-Michelin front row of Lorenzo, James Toseland and Colin Edwards, all on Yamahas as well.

Clearly Bridgestone executives and technicians felt fortunate that the Stoner/Ducati Desmosedici combination made the most of their product, but they are hoping for more consistent results in Jerez this coming weekend.

Why was Stoner able to dominate and win by over five seconds? Perhaps because he took very good care of his tires over the opening laps. also because the Ducati electronics package on his bike was kinder to the tires, Stoner's Ducati was very strong through the section of the three linked right-handers, Rossi lost ground and did not look as if we could ride aggressively

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 26 2008, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i found some news today on the stones at qatar it wasnt just rossi who had problems a few other riders did also, i also read in an interview where lorenzo was saying that rossi couldnt fight because of tyre problems. something alot of us said in the beggining but also alot who wanted to dismiss it, anyway here it is:
I don't think rossi switched to bridgestone tyres because he thought that they would help him in the qatar night race, and I don't think tyres were the problem for stoner at jerez last year. I think both rossi and stoner will be on the podium at jerez this year. As others have said though, rossi can't complain about tyres this year having extremely actively chosen bridgestones, and to be fair I don't think he really did complain after qatar.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 26 2008, 05:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think rossi switched to bridgestone tyres because he thought that they would help him in the qatar night race, and I don't think tyres were the problem for stoner at jerez last year. I think both rossi and stoner will be on the podium at jerez this year. As others have said though, rossi can't complain about tyres this year having extremely actively chosen bridgestones, and to be fair I don't think he really did complain after qatar.

He did not complain about the tires but his setup. He was angry over his technicians not getting the setup right and warned that they cannot use information from previous years. But in the end it was the tires that suffered from the setup, soooooo

Somebody help me out.If a cool track shredded the Bridgestone,will a warmer track not accentuate the problem.In the past it was the Michelin that seemed to suffer as the temps went up and the Bridgestones sufferd on the cooler surfaces,not shredding,just lack of grip.Now we have a so called shredding problem in the cool for Bridgestone except for one guy,the one guy that has dominated the series for over a year.Could it be tire management on his part or the lack of tire management on the other riders part.Could the other riders be so intent on Casey not getting away early that they are using up their tires to hang on before ineviatable happens.And,if the Bridgestones suffered in the cool,does that not mean that Casey is just going to be that much faster when the tires hit warmer surfaces.They are saying its not going to be very hot at the next race,who does it favor?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2008, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Somebody help me out.If a cool track shredded the Bridgestone,will a warmer track not accentuate the problem.In the past it was the Michelin that seemed to suffer as the temps went up and the Bridgestones sufferd on the cooler surfaces,not shredding,just lack of grip.Now we have a so called shredding problem in the cool for Bridgestone except for one guy,the one guy that has dominated the series for over a year.Could it be tire management on his part or the lack of tire management on the other riders part.Could the other riders be so intent on Casey not getting away early that they are using up their tires to hang on before ineviatable happens.And,if the Bridgestones suffered in the cool,does that not mean that Casey is just going to be that much faster when the tires hit warmer surfaces.They are saying its not going to be very hot at the next race,who does it favor?


Stoner said he did not use the 2008 spec tires for the race like everyone else. Ducati chose the same 2007 spec for quatar cause of the track conditions. Theirs a report about it somewhere.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2008, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Somebody help me out.If a cool track shredded the Bridgestone,will a warmer track not accentuate the problem.In the past it was the Michelin that seemed to suffer as the temps went up and the Bridgestones sufferd on the cooler surfaces,not shredding,just lack of grip.Now we have a so called shredding problem in the cool for Bridgestone except for one guy,the one guy that has dominated the series for over a year.Could it be tire management on his part or the lack of tire management on the other riders part.Could the other riders be so intent on Casey not getting away early that they are using up their tires to hang on before ineviatable happens.And,if the Bridgestones suffered in the cool,does that not mean that Casey is just going to be that much faster when the tires hit warmer surfaces.They are saying its not going to be very hot at the next race,who does it favor?

Different track surface and different temperature require different tire construction and different rubber compound. In other words a totally different tire. Who is the better tire on Jerez is not given as Jerez (and quatar) didn't seem to favour any particular tire brand last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 27 2008, 03:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Somebody help me out.If a cool track shredded the Bridgestone,will a warmer track not accentuate the problem.In the past it was the Michelin that seemed to suffer as the temps went up and the Bridgestones sufferd on the cooler surfaces,not shredding,just lack of grip.Now we have a so called shredding problem in the cool for Bridgestone except for one guy,the one guy that has dominated the series for over a year.Could it be tire management on his part or the lack of tire management on the other riders part.Could the other riders be so intent on Casey not getting away early that they are using up their tires to hang on before ineviatable happens.And,if the Bridgestones suffered in the cool,does that not mean that Casey is just going to be that much faster when the tires hit warmer surfaces.They are saying its not going to be very hot at the next race,who does it favor?

Shredding ...... well its kinda defined by the outcome of the race for us spectators, ie. Stoner wins so we say his Bridgestones were fine. Nobody else on Bridgestone went close, so we say they shredded their tyres.

In reality ... only a select few Bridgestone employees know the reality of how the Bridgestone tyres fared across riders. And I'm not sureits the type of information they would either "want to" nor "feel at liberty" to divulge.

In the end the only hard data we have is the placings.

I speculatively agree with you on the "how will the tyres go in the heat?" bit though .... a lot of the info. we get doesn't "gel" .... but one would assume heat will be worse.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 26 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Shredding ...... well its kinda defined by the outcome of the race for us spectators, ie. Stoner wins so we say his Bridgestones were fine. Nobody else on Bridgestone went close, so we say they shredded their tyres.
Geez Harry you are shell shocked. (Don't take it to heart; I was too back in the off-season of 06). I think Povol is asking an honest question here man, he's not one of the few and dying breed of Rossi fans looking for an angle to explain why other riders performances were on up to par with your beloved Stoner. We are left with mainly honest Rossi fans here. (That said, you can count on Babel to come up with something interesting regarding tires more along the lines of your sensitivities).

Povol, you ask a very good question, however, I really do think much of our tire hypothesizing will be answered in the next couple of rounds. Stoner is a beast, but Rossi has an extraordinary learning curve. I suppose there was nothing wrong with his tires in Qatar (that is not to say there were not any tire issues, I think Jazkat posted something about this), but rather a simple tire management issue on tires that were new to Rossi--he will make the adjustment. I predict a win for him at Jerez (at very least a podium)—no I’m not actually rooting for him (unless of course some pretty blond reads this). You guys know I love Hayden as much as Harry & Pinky love <strike>Stoner</strike> Hong Kong World ... Guide.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 27 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Geez Harry you are shell shocked. (Don't take it to heart; I was too back in the off-season of 06). I think Povol is asking an honest question here man, he's not one of the few and dying breed of Rossi fans looking for an angle to explain why other riders performances were on up to par with your beloved Stoner. We are left with mainly honest Rossi fans here. (That said, you can count on Babel to come up with something interesting regarding tires more along the lines of your sensitivities).

Povol, you ask a very good question, however, I really do think much of our tire hypothesizing will be answered in the next couple of rounds. Stoner is a beast, but Rossi has an extraordinary learning curve. I suppose there was nothing wrong with his tires in Qatar (that is not to say there were not any tire issues, I think Jazkat posted something about this), but rather a simple tire management issue on tires that were new to Rossi--he will make the adjustment. I predict a win for him at Jerez (at very least a podium)—no I’m not actually rooting for him (unless of course some pretty blond reads this). You guys know I love Hayden as much as Harry & Pinky love <strike>Stoner</strike> Hong Kong World ... Guide.


Lotta "bitchin" there Junkie ...... not much substance


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 27 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Geez Harry you are shell shocked. (Don't take it to heart; I was too back in the off-season of 06).

Shell shocked? ... in what way?

You have to remember the difference between your 06 off season .... and my 07 offseason is that .... yes whilst we both seemed to plug away at "it" ........ I was satiated in 08 round 1 .......... you are still waiting ... still plugging away

It is difficult to remember all the tyre choices last year, but my impression is that on most of the tracks where stoner and /or bridgestone appeared to have an advantage last year it was with the hard compound tyres. In cooler conditions like the qatar night race perhaps softer compound tyres are required to be competitive with the michelins for grip, and these may be less durable than the equivalent michelins in such conditions.

The mystery of the qatar race is why stoner's tyres were apparently more durable. Last year the performance of the tyres across the bridgestone teams appeared to correlate at the individual tracks unless someone chose a different compound as capirossi did on occasion. As has been said stoner with a year's experience may have known he had to protect his tyres early, and the yamaha in general seems to be harder on tyres. Stoner actually said he used different tyres to the others, in fact last year's compound, which would seem to blow most of our theories including mine out of the water as the temperature difference compared to last year was of the order of 25 degrees celsius, unless they were tyres that were available last year but not used in the actual race. Bridgestone obviously did have the opportunity to "cook" a special compound based on the testing only a few days before, but if they did so this would mean they and stoner are lying which would seem unusual. I guess there is also always the possibility that stoner is quite good .

As far as rossi goes, he just didn't seem to be able to get a set-up for qatar, and as he himself said he tested less well there than elsewhere, so I think many people are drawing far too many implications for the season as a whole.

As barry has said all we can do is speculate, and we do like to speculate .