BOMBSHELL, BUELL IS NO MORE

I think Eric Buell knew damn well what was going on with the rules bias debacle at DMG. Look at this paragraph taken from this article on Superbikeplanet. c o m

Just because he's gutted, it didn't stop Buell from spinning his company's saddest accomplishment. In the video, Buell says that, in 2009 "... in competition at the highest level, the Rossmeyer Geico team took the AMA Pro SportBike championship, competing against the much larger, factory-backed teams from Japan and Europe, proving to all that (Buell) innovation and technology is world class."

Complete article can be found here: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/09...expldeleted.htm

Or you can watch the video of Eric himself touting their "racing" accomplishments against the much larger factories(racing smaller anemic bikes) from Japan and Europe.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5i7JDNACtI

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (machmanzx10r @ Oct 17 2009, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thier sales have gone down the ...........from their press release:

Harley's sales are down quite a bit this year - 21% lower in the third quarter this year than last and an 84% decline in income from a year ago.

"Worldwide retail sales of new Harley-Davidson® motorcycles declined 21.3 percent in the third quarter compared to last year’s third quarter, an improvement from the 30.1 percent decline in this year’s second quarter. An 84.1 percent decline in net income and an 84.5 percent decline in diluted earnings per share from the year-ago quarter reflected lower motorcycle shipments and the effects of the economy on retail and wholesale loan performance at Harley-Davidson Financial Services."

Due to this, they are discontinuing Buell and selling MV Agusta:

"Harley-Davidson also unveiled major elements of its go-forward business strategy to drive growth through a single-minded focus of efforts and resources on the unique strengths of the Harley-Davidson brand, and to enhance productivity and profitability through continuous improvement. As approved yesterday by Harley-Davidson’s Board of Directors, the Company will discontinue its Buell product line and divest its MV Agusta unit as part of this strategy."

Of course it's bad right now.

I'm talking long term the company has grown leaps and bounds and so has their market segment in the US. Even though things are bad, Harley are still actually turning a profit.

What's funny is I've seen more liquid cooled Buells on the road than air cooled this last summer. I guess it is sad since Eric finally got a modern engine.

HD will make more tee shirts and go on to place "Limited Edition" emblems on all its fewer "new" bikes that will roll of the assembly line.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRILL @ Oct 17 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Harley have weathered the storm before if I recall correctly,didn`t they re-emerge from the AMF debacle to greater heights?USA wouldn`t be USA without a Harley would it?
Yeah, i think the worker's formed a workers cooperative and bout the company off AMF. Then bought out the evo engine that was so much better than the shovel trouble.

Shame about buell imo. I once had a test ride for the day on a white lightening with the vance and hinds tuning kit. was a fun bike and handled great. Build quality wasn't all that tho.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Oct 15 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What a shame. Eric Buell has been an innovative force in designing and engineering
some truly innovative motorcycle technology.
I wonder what he will do next.

I promise that my intent here is to be neither petulant or to infer anything about your character or intellect but..........

I've always found Buell motorcycles to be different and certainly contrary to standard convention. I've also found those design characteristics to be done more for "effect" and "character" than sound function. It seems to me that Buell enjoys being different more than he ever liked being good. His motorcycles have always performed poorly in just about any head to head comparison I've ever read. His "advances" seemed more about him doing something different than him doing something better.

I recently tested an 1125CR on about a 40 min ride and I was completely underwhelmed. I thought the fit and finish was terrible, the clutch and brakes were equally poor and the ergonomics and general designed seemed poorly conceived. The bike had reasonable power although the transmission and brakes were so poor that there was no confidence to push the bike. The bike had a General Motors plasticy appearance and seems to just fall short in every way. I was there with a fellow Ducati owner and we both wanted to like the bikes. My follow rider was even less enthused than I. I spoke briefly to two other testers who also had the same reaction.

I'm just not sure Beull ever really grasped the concept of balancing his "innovative" (not my word) ideas with real function and quality. Would you consider a Buell to be a superior product to any of the Japanese manufacturers? What about a head to head with Ducati, Aprilia or Triumph. I just can't think of anything the Buell is better than...??

What do you think?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Oct 18 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've always found Buell motorcycles to be different and certainly contrary to standard convention. I've also found those design characteristics to be done more for "effect" and "character" than sound function. It seems to me that Buell enjoys being different more than he ever liked being good. His motorcycles have always performed poorly in just about any head to head comparison I've ever read. His "advances" seemed more about him doing something different than him doing something better.

I'm not a fan of Buell, but I view the entire sportsbike industry as completely purposeless so I think Buell's innovations are completely consistent with the idea of sports motorcycling.

V-twins are inferior (based on power per displacement) to I-4s so isn't Ducati making a contrived inferior product?

Let's skip the 3 day discussion and just agree that differentiation is a very important part of marketing and brand identity. When you deal in unnecessary luxury goods that have been designed to quench a highly specific set of demands, your product doesn't need a purpose, it only needs buyers. Some people obviously agreed with the logic behind Erik's design philosophy and they liked the feel of his bikes.

The number one reason people buy hybrids is "it says something about me". Cars serve a transportation purpose so imagine how intense the self-expression phenomenon is in the world of sportbikes. I'm more amazed that so many people get in line to buy Japanese cookie cutters. I guess that shows the power of advertising.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Oct 18 2009, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I promise that my intent here is to be neither petulant or to infer anything about your character or intellect but..........

I've always found Buell motorcycles to be different and certainly contrary to standard convention. I've also found those design characteristics to be done more for "effect" and "character" than sound function. It seems to me that Buell enjoys being different more than he ever liked being good. His motorcycles have always performed poorly in just about any head to head comparison I've ever read. His "advances" seemed more about him doing something different than him doing something better.
I recently tested an 1125CR on about a 40 min ride and I was completely underwhelmed. I thought the fit and finish was terrible, the clutch and brakes were equally poor and the ergonomics and general designed seemed poorly conceived. The bike had reasonable power although the transmission and brakes were so poor that there was no confidence to push the bike. The bike had a General Motors plasticy appearance and seems to just fall short in every way. I was there with a fellow Ducati owner and we both wanted to like the bikes. My follow rider was even less enthused than I. I spoke briefly to two other testers who also had the same reaction.

I'm just not sure Beull ever really grasped the concept of balancing his "innovative" (not my word) ideas with real function and quality. Would you consider a Buell to be a superior product to any of the Japanese manufacturers? What about a head to head with Ducati, Aprilia or Triumph. I just can't think of anything the Buell is better than...??

What do you think?
Exactly. his "innovations" were to be different,not innovative

Main Entry: in·no·va·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌi-nə-ˈvā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century

1 : the introduction of something new
2 : a new idea, method, or device : novelty


Life is not a never-ending pursuit of connotative meanings. Talk to the linguistics experts, they will yack your ear off for days about how the English language is being hijacked b/c schools don't teach the annotative meaning of anything.

Innovation means "new" not "better or improved". Then new and improved part comes from the marketing departments.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 19 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Main Entry: in·no·va·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌi-nə-ˈvā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century

1 : the introduction of something new
2 : a new idea, method, or device : novelty


Life is not a never-ending pursuit of connotative meanings. Talk to the linguistics experts, they will yack your ear off for days about how the English language is being hijacked b/c schools don't teach the annotative meaning of anything.

Innovation means "new" not "better or improved". Then new and improved part comes from the marketing departments.

Novelty fits well

I've owned 2 Buells - a firebolt 9 and 1125r. After taking rides on a Kawasaki 250, Yamaha R6, a CBR 1000 and Ducati 1098, I think Buell is the best handling bike I've been on. The engines (liquid and air cooled) were always lacking. Reliability, fit and finish are sub par, but with such low volumes produced, it was necessary. Despite the looks, nearly every moto mag gave the 1125CR high praise. Anyone is welcome to ride mine now that it's finally fixed

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 21 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've owned 2 Buells - a firebolt 9 and 1125r. After taking rides on a Kawasaki 250, Yamaha R6, a CBR 1000 and Ducati 1098, I think Buell is the best handling bike I've been on. The engines (liquid and air cooled) were always lacking. Reliability, fit and finish are sub par, but with such low volumes produced, it was necessary. Despite the looks, nearly every moto mag gave the 1125CR high praise. Anyone is welcome to ride mine now that it's finally fixed

How do the Cali HD dealers treat you? I've been told you have to put on a "Hells Angels Face" when you walk into most shops to get timely and proper service done.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Oct 21 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How do the Cali HD dealers treat you? I've been told you have to put on a "Hells Angels Face" when you walk into most shops to get timely and proper service done.
I hate going into the dealers because the sales staff and the patch wearing knife weilders are unpleasant when I show up in my track leathers on a Buell. Problem is, I've got nothing in common with 60 year old weekend riders who are willing to pay $5000 over MSRP and buy $10,000 worth of accesories that only make them louder and slower.

The service guys are decent. But honestly, its a bad mix to be in line with a guy who needs chrome tips and is dressed like he's about to sing YMCA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 21 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anyone is welcome to ride mine now that it's finally fixed
Holy ...., just yesterday you were talking about suing HD to buy it back. So that means we are on for the 23rd of Nov trackday?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 21 2009, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hate going into the dealers because the sales staff and the patch wearing knife weilders are unpleasant when I show up in my track leathers on a Buell. Problem is, I've got nothing in common with 60 year old weekend riders who are willing to pay $5000 over MSRP and buy $10,000 worth of accesories that only make them louder and slower.

The service guys are decent. But honestly, its a bad mix to be in line with a guy who needs chrome tips and is dressed like he's about to sing YMCA.


This is one of the most hilarious post I've read to date! Hahahaha, you had me rolling man.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Oct 18 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I promise that my intent here is to be neither petulant or to infer anything about your character or intellect but..........

I've always found Buell motorcycles to be different and certainly contrary to standard convention. I've also found those design characteristics to be done more for "effect" and "character" than sound function. It seems to me that Buell enjoys being different more than he ever liked being good. His motorcycles have always performed poorly in just about any head to head comparison I've ever read. His "advances" seemed more about him doing something different than him doing something better.

I recently tested an 1125CR on about a 40 min ride and I was completely underwhelmed. I thought the fit and finish was terrible, the clutch and brakes were equally poor and the ergonomics and general designed seemed poorly conceived. The bike had reasonable power although the transmission and brakes were so poor that there was no confidence to push the bike. The bike had a General Motors plasticy appearance and seems to just fall short in every way. I was there with a fellow Ducati owner and we both wanted to like the bikes. My follow rider was even less enthused than I. I spoke briefly to two other testers who also had the same reaction.

I'm just not sure Beull ever really grasped the concept of balancing his "innovative" (not my word) ideas with real function and quality. Would you consider a Buell to be a superior product to any of the Japanese manufacturers? What about a head to head with Ducati, Aprilia or Triumph. I just can't think of anything the Buell is better than...??

What do you think?

Excellent post. I agree, it was about something different. But I admired that attempt. All the Jap bikes are cookie cutters. One reason why I own a Ducati, simply, its different (apart from being beautiful), doesn't mean it always better or more reliable. I've ridden my buddy's Buell, can't say I liked it, but I did notice how the low center of gravity made flicking the thing feel like a bike 100 lbs lighter than it really was. I think we are all in agreement that seeing the demise of Buell is not a good thing for motorcycling. Plus its a loss of another American company. We all lose.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 21 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Excellent post. I agree, it was about something different. But I admired that attempt. All the Jap bikes are cookie cutters. One reason why I own a Ducati, simply, its different (apart from being beautiful), doesn't mean it always better or more reliable. I've ridden my buddy's Buell, can't say I liked it, but I did notice how the low center of gravity made flicking the thing feel like a bike 100 lbs lighter than it really was. I think we are all in agreement that seeing the demise of Buell is not a good thing for motorcycling. Plus its a loss of another American company. We all lose.

I don't mourn the loss of an American company simply because it's American. Quality should always triumph over nationality in my opinion. In my garage there are three vehicles. A Suzuki, a Ducati and an Audi. I have no intention of ever owning an American vehicle of any kind at this point . GM is failing because they manufacture trash. Companies that cannot compete should fail. That's more American in my opinion than sustaining a company that is unable to compete freely simply because of the flag it flies. Ducati for a great many years was considered the manufacturer of boutique motorcycles that were extremely difficult to keep on the road. That caused the company some difficulties and I think they have adjusted accordingly. My Ducati has 19K miles on it. I bought it new in 07. I've replaced the clutch and a few other "normal wear" bits but nothing else. I purchased my Audi new on 06. It has 55K miles and has never been in the shop for anything other than scheduled service. GM cannot make that claim. American companies will prosper only when they can compete on equal ground with their rivals. I will be happy to support them when they do. If Buell was able to competently compete they would be thriving. They are not.

If you build it, they will come...............quality, value and style should not be mutually exclusive.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Oct 22 2009, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't mourn the loss of an American company simply because it's American. Quality should always triumph over nationality in my opinion. In my garage there are three vehicles. A Suzuki, a Ducati and an Audi. I have no intention of ever owning an American vehicle of any kind at this point . GM is failing because they manufacture trash. Companies that cannot compete should fail. That's more American in my opinion than sustaining a company that is unable to compete freely simply because of the flag it flies. Ducati for a great many years was considered the manufacturer of boutique motorcycles that were extremely difficult to keep on the road. That caused the company some difficulties and I think they have adjusted accordingly. My Ducati has 19K miles on it. I bought it new in 07. I've replaced the clutch and a few other "normal wear" bits but nothing else. I purchased my Audi new on 06. It has 55K miles and has never been in the shop for anything other than scheduled service. GM cannot make that claim. American companies will prosper only when they can compete on equal ground with their rivals. I will be happy to support them when they do. If Buell was able to competently compete they would be thriving. They are not.

If you build it, they will come...............quality, value and style should not be mutually exclusive.
Agree 100%. Buell had none of the above,Quality,value or style.Their best bike to date,the 1125r was 14k,looked like hell,has so so fit and finish and performed with 600's that cost 6k less. I cant believe they sold as many as they did. But then again, i cant beleive someone of sound mind would pay what they do for a Harley. It has been close to 20 years since i have owned an American made car, and i have never owned an American made bike. In my driveway is a Toyota Tundra, a Toyota Camry and ,a Mazda Pickup. In my garage is a Honda dirtbike, a Suzuki dirtbike and a Kawasaki streetbike. My married daughter,drives a Honda and her husband drives a NIssan. I was in the auto industry for 20 years before going into the boat business,there is no comparison between domestic and imports. Over the last 20 years, i have seen Toyota's quality drop from where it once was and it followed the timeline from when they started building cars in America.It was an insider fact that if you wanted the best cars Toyota had to offer,you found one that the serial number started with a J, or Japan built. Even with the drop in quality,they still build very reliable vehicles with minor problems that are more than a nuisance than anything. The drivetrain,AC units etc still outperform the domestics by a long shot

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Oct 18 2009, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I promise that my intent here is to be neither petulant or to infer anything about your character or intellect but..........

I've always found Buell motorcycles to be different and certainly contrary to standard convention. I've also found those design characteristics to be done more for "effect" and "character" than sound function. It seems to me that Buell enjoys being different more than he ever liked being good. His motorcycles have always performed poorly in just about any head to head comparison I've ever read. His "advances" seemed more about him doing something different than him doing something better.

I recently tested an 1125CR on about a 40 min ride and I was completely underwhelmed. I thought the fit and finish was terrible, the clutch and brakes were equally poor and the ergonomics and general designed seemed poorly conceived. The bike had reasonable power although the transmission and brakes were so poor that there was no confidence to push the bike. The bike had a General Motors plasticy appearance and seems to just fall short in every way. I was there with a fellow Ducati owner and we both wanted to like the bikes. My follow rider was even less enthused than I. I spoke briefly to two other testers who also had the same reaction.

I'm just not sure Beull ever really grasped the concept of balancing his "innovative" (not my word) ideas with real function and quality. Would you consider a Buell to be a superior product to any of the Japanese manufacturers? What about a head to head with Ducati, Aprilia or Triumph. I just can't think of anything the Buell is better than...??


What do you think?

To describe the Buell bikes in a nutshell: Style Over Substance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 22 2009, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To describe the Buell bikes in a nutshell: Style Over Substance.
I got my for $9k last year, not 14. MSRP is about 12, but now they are going for $6k.
Buells are not stylish. But a belt drive, low weight brake, underslung muffler, fuel in the frame and large volume airbox (flat torque curve) are all substantive. Reliability problems, original snatchy fuel injection and poor styling (1125) were among the flaws. Buell made less than 9,000 bikes 2008 (3000 1125R's). It's a very small company.

OPEN BET TO ANYONE WHO GOES AND TEST RIDES ONE AFTER TODAY AND STILL HAS SOMETHING NEGATIVE TO SAY ABOUT <u>RIDE QUALITY</u>. Its a V-Twin and the suspension needs to be setup for your weight, but youll be very surprised. Like I said, you're all welcome to take mine for a spin. Jumkie is doing a trackday Nov 23 and I'm hitting up Palomar this weekend.

i've always liked their "street fighter" like bikes..of course after a couple mods
...but their "sport bikes" have always been ugly as hell..specially the 09 AMA Championship bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Oct 21 2009, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't mourn the loss of an American company simply because it's American. Quality should always triumph over nationality in my opinion. In my garage there are three vehicles. A Suzuki, a Ducati and an Audi. I have no intention of ever owning an American vehicle of any kind at this point . GM is failing because they manufacture trash. Companies that cannot compete should fail. That's more American in my opinion than sustaining a company that is unable to compete freely simply because of the flag it flies. Ducati for a great many years was considered the manufacturer of boutique motorcycles that were extremely difficult to keep on the road. That caused the company some difficulties and I think they have adjusted accordingly. My Ducati has 19K miles on it. I bought it new in 07. I've replaced the clutch and a few other "normal wear" bits but nothing else. I purchased my Audi new on 06. It has 55K miles and has never been in the shop for anything other than scheduled service. GM cannot make that claim. American companies will prosper only when they can compete on equal ground with their rivals. I will be happy to support them when they do. If Buell was able to competently compete they would be thriving. They are not.

If you build it, they will come...............quality, value and style should not be mutually exclusive.

I like the general idea of what you're saying, but two of the vehicles you own have been synonymous with unreliable performance (Audi and Ducati). Though German vehicles have vastly superior build quality to American cars the reliability is just as poor (perhaps poorer when considering cost of repair) especially when speaking about VAG vehicles from the Mark III and Mark IV generations. I've owned plenty and some of them I would classify as near-lemon quality.

Ducatis have been known for critical valvetrain failures (the most notorious of which is the flaking rockers), a long list of electrical gremlins, and frequent expensive maintenance schedules.

All vehicle manufacturers have made enormous strides to improve reliability RECENTLY b/c the Japanese embarrassed the rest of the developed world during the 1990s when it came to quality.
I think perception of low quality in this day and age is more perception than reality b/c the Japanese raised the bar. Even Harley have made huge strides to improve reliability and quality.

If you look at the methodologies used to keep reliability data, almost all of them are relative to the industry as a whole. Most Japanese cars will have almost no problems in 4 or 5 years of ownership. In this day and age 1 or 2 problems can see your brand relegated to scrap even if you have a good product. The key to success is to needless complicate the design with as many accessories as possible without ruining quality.

I don't like that game, and that's why I bought a Wrangler (manual). I've spent $52 in 6 years of ownership b/c it is uncomplicated and almost unchanged in 30 years (except the piss poor auto transmission).