Surprised no one has posted this yet. Ben Spies talks about leaving Yamaha:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02/ben-spies-leaves-yamaha-for-ducati/
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02/ben-spies-leaves-yamaha-for-ducati/
Ben Spies' "Litany of reasons"
- Thread starter Kropotkin
- Start date
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
The Yamaha people sound pretty much like the ....-heads at Marlboro who were so ready to throw Stoner under the bus.
It's really a shame that Gresini couldn't get it together to have Spies on the Honda. Say what you will about the difference between the factor and customer bikes - Honda stuff isn't always falling apart.
It's really a shame that Gresini couldn't get it together to have Spies on the Honda. Say what you will about the difference between the factor and customer bikes - Honda stuff isn't always falling apart.
Keshav
To be fair, neither is Yamahas. Spies season this year was anomalous to say the least, plus lets not forget that a HRC mechanical failure put Dani Pedrosa in hospital in 2010.
To be fair, neither is Yamahas. Spies season this year was anomalous to say the least, plus lets not forget that a HRC mechanical failure put Dani Pedrosa in hospital in 2010.
All of 12 it seemed like there was something sinister going on with the #2 bike at Yamaha but Ben didn't give us anything new here. Wanted him to confirm something about Jarvis trying to force him out so Rossi could take his seat. Maybe something about testing for Lorenzo or having to ride bikes Lorenzo crashed. At the begining of this nightmare season after bad races Ben would always say Yamaha knew what was going on behind the scenes. That's what I want to know. Anything other than unbelievable bad luck and some higher up was a jerk.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
I like James Bond movies.
Bens interview needs a bit of James Bond x Reservoir Dogs.
Picture this.
Ben's hog tied to the chair, blood dripping from his brow, grime and snot play contrast with the blood and the soiled disorder of defeat mix with the smell of sweat and desperation.
Someone has a gun to his head. Spanish dude, big time boss man.
The big time boss man is saying now what will we do with you? you have caused us trouble and you are in the way.
You have to ride the Ducati and play the game, we can get your mother Ben.
Ben's last line is the analogous equivalent of "If anything happens to mum or me I have all the information in 3 envelopes in a safety deposit box, it gets mailed out, media, politicians...you name it'
Except there are no envelopes in a safety deposit box.
Bens interview needs a bit of James Bond x Reservoir Dogs.
Picture this.
Ben's hog tied to the chair, blood dripping from his brow, grime and snot play contrast with the blood and the soiled disorder of defeat mix with the smell of sweat and desperation.
Someone has a gun to his head. Spanish dude, big time boss man.
The big time boss man is saying now what will we do with you? you have caused us trouble and you are in the way.
You have to ride the Ducati and play the game, we can get your mother Ben.
Ben's last line is the analogous equivalent of "If anything happens to mum or me I have all the information in 3 envelopes in a safety deposit box, it gets mailed out, media, politicians...you name it'
Except there are no envelopes in a safety deposit box.
I copped a lot of flack for saying it was down to the way he rode, the crashes he had and the way he approached the M1, but... these quotes would seem to add credence to that:
So, he crashes and breaks things - and the team don't check it enough to find out that it's broken. He knows the fast guys run soft, but he can't and can't ameliorate his style to match that.
Shut your ....... whining Ben, you have proven you aren't up at the front, you can't race with the big boys. If you could, you would.
Blaming the tool, when it's the same tool in the same team as the guy winning all the races, says that you can't get the same out of it - your fault.
Being sick, your fault - take more care with what you eat.
I wonder what the excuses will be when Ducati keeps him even further behind the pack?
So, he crashes and breaks things - and the team don't check it enough to find out that it's broken. He knows the fast guys run soft, but he can't and can't ameliorate his style to match that.
Shut your ....... whining Ben, you have proven you aren't up at the front, you can't race with the big boys. If you could, you would.
Blaming the tool, when it's the same tool in the same team as the guy winning all the races, says that you can't get the same out of it - your fault.
Being sick, your fault - take more care with what you eat.
I wonder what the excuses will be when Ducati keeps him even further behind the pack?
BJ.C
No. The fast guys on Yamaha run it soft. The Honda and the Ducati are both much stiffer bikes. I think it is fair to suggest Stoner was the fastest guy and he runs his bike very stiff and wild. Pedrosa is similar and is also very fast. The fact Rossi runs his bike so soft is no doubt a big reason he could never gel with the Ducati.
It is a case of horses for courses. Spies obviously didn't gel with the soft Yamaha. Good. Now he knows that and he can try to get a bike that suits his style.
I hate Lorenzo's boring style. If this is what the Yamaha requires to be fast then I can't see my self liking it as a bike.
I also think people are under rating Ducati. Just because Rossi couldn't ride it doesn't mean the Spies, Dovi, Iannone won't be able to. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Ducati Jnr team kicking the Snr teams arse in 13.
No. The fast guys on Yamaha run it soft. The Honda and the Ducati are both much stiffer bikes. I think it is fair to suggest Stoner was the fastest guy and he runs his bike very stiff and wild. Pedrosa is similar and is also very fast. The fact Rossi runs his bike so soft is no doubt a big reason he could never gel with the Ducati.
It is a case of horses for courses. Spies obviously didn't gel with the soft Yamaha. Good. Now he knows that and he can try to get a bike that suits his style.
I hate Lorenzo's boring style. If this is what the Yamaha requires to be fast then I can't see my self liking it as a bike.
I also think people are under rating Ducati. Just because Rossi couldn't ride it doesn't mean the Spies, Dovi, Iannone won't be able to. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Ducati Jnr team kicking the Snr teams arse in 13.
Not sure you can knock Lorenzo's style until we see him ride something else.
He is simply riding the Yamaha in a way that will get the most speed out of it.
I don't think being ragged would suit the Yamaha so agree with you there.
I think Spies style will suit the Ducati. I expect him to have some good races.
I'm not sure it will suit Dovi, but we'll see.
He is simply riding the Yamaha in a way that will get the most speed out of it.
I don't think being ragged would suit the Yamaha so agree with you there.
I think Spies style will suit the Ducati. I expect him to have some good races.
I'm not sure it will suit Dovi, but we'll see.
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
BJ.C
I cant really disagree with you at all....
The Ducaudi might suit Ben, but i dont think superbike riding style will suit the bike.......
The question for Ducati is....who do you listen to?
- Nicky - another ex-superbike rider and number 1 ducati rider and most experienced ducati rider,
- Dovi - ex-honda gp ex-yamaha gp and ex-125 champ and very smooth
- Iannone - fast in the small classes and very hungry and very crazy
- Ben - ex-superbike rider, ex-yamaha gp rider, and by his own admission cant ride like a GP race winner
it is going to be a long frustrating year for both Ducati teams....until Ducati decide if they are going to follow the GP route or the CRT/Superbike one....
I cant really disagree with you at all....
The Ducaudi might suit Ben, but i dont think superbike riding style will suit the bike.......
The question for Ducati is....who do you listen to?
- Nicky - another ex-superbike rider and number 1 ducati rider and most experienced ducati rider,
- Dovi - ex-honda gp ex-yamaha gp and ex-125 champ and very smooth
- Iannone - fast in the small classes and very hungry and very crazy
- Ben - ex-superbike rider, ex-yamaha gp rider, and by his own admission cant ride like a GP race winner
it is going to be a long frustrating year for both Ducati teams....until Ducati decide if they are going to follow the GP route or the CRT/Superbike one....
Finally it is clear.
The agreement rossi - yamaha had been officially too early and Ben was a stranger at yamaha. They wanted to get rid of him.
What he says about the style of COURSE not explain us why, while then the old style could go fast (Proof: I rode Valentino Rossi's YZR-M1 at Valencia in 2010. I did five or six laps, but there was no way I could ride fast; it was too soft. We started fine-tuning the setup for me, and I went faster than Valentino had gone on the same bike during the race weekend. It's all about feel. If the rider is comfortable, he can ride the bike to its limit. Same goes for lines around the racetrack; there's no perfect way to do anything.) and finally said 2 years ago if I remember correctly interviewed this' isn't going to work'' and completely change his style.
For me he wouldnt do it, no one driver is not 100% changing the style he learned from old and took victories with it.
The Rossi altough not changed struggled with Ducaudi, the Stoner not changed even though we struggled at 250, lorenzp neither he, etc..
SPIES was the first driver " throws at garbage " the style which learned to defeat anyone until 2010 and he believes he has regret it.
Made himself appear at world inferior than Lorenzo when the motorcycle world was to ready to " baptize" him alien.
Marquez go at motogp with the same style that had SPIES old and will fix his bike just like he wants and should work nice.
From the moment yamaha was not meant to work with SPIES, he had to stay with the same style (I believe he would go better at least in some tracks)
Ηe had to get up and leave , if M1 do not hang with his style, and not looking videos what are doing Lorenzo and put his mother to complain and Jarvis saying before begin the year '' if you does not go well , you will leave from yamaha ....
Stoner and Spies began from low at motogp. Stoner proved thats he is a great rider (legend for me since 2008 until 2012 because the " problems " at DUC ) when gone to honda at 2011. Not early but....
Spies went to yamaha and Jarvis managed to convince him that he is not capable at motogp. The result? He lost his morality (i think isnt the right word but similar ) which is the most important at races. He isnt the best rider ever but he did not deserve this.
<span style="font-size:18px;I cant belive that Hayden will have a better career from SPIES <span style="font-size:18px;!!
PS: Yeah i know, my english sucks
The agreement rossi - yamaha had been officially too early and Ben was a stranger at yamaha. They wanted to get rid of him.
What he says about the style of COURSE not explain us why, while then the old style could go fast (Proof: I rode Valentino Rossi's YZR-M1 at Valencia in 2010. I did five or six laps, but there was no way I could ride fast; it was too soft. We started fine-tuning the setup for me, and I went faster than Valentino had gone on the same bike during the race weekend. It's all about feel. If the rider is comfortable, he can ride the bike to its limit. Same goes for lines around the racetrack; there's no perfect way to do anything.) and finally said 2 years ago if I remember correctly interviewed this' isn't going to work'' and completely change his style.
For me he wouldnt do it, no one driver is not 100% changing the style he learned from old and took victories with it.
The Rossi altough not changed struggled with Ducaudi, the Stoner not changed even though we struggled at 250, lorenzp neither he, etc..
SPIES was the first driver " throws at garbage " the style which learned to defeat anyone until 2010 and he believes he has regret it.
Made himself appear at world inferior than Lorenzo when the motorcycle world was to ready to " baptize" him alien.
Marquez go at motogp with the same style that had SPIES old and will fix his bike just like he wants and should work nice.
From the moment yamaha was not meant to work with SPIES, he had to stay with the same style (I believe he would go better at least in some tracks)
Ηe had to get up and leave , if M1 do not hang with his style, and not looking videos what are doing Lorenzo and put his mother to complain and Jarvis saying before begin the year '' if you does not go well , you will leave from yamaha ....
Stoner and Spies began from low at motogp. Stoner proved thats he is a great rider (legend for me since 2008 until 2012 because the " problems " at DUC ) when gone to honda at 2011. Not early but....
Spies went to yamaha and Jarvis managed to convince him that he is not capable at motogp. The result? He lost his morality (i think isnt the right word but similar ) which is the most important at races. He isnt the best rider ever but he did not deserve this.
<span style="font-size:18px;I cant belive that Hayden will have a better career from SPIES <span style="font-size:18px;!!
PS: Yeah i know, my english sucks
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
OK, so Ben didn't gel with the M1, a bike that won 4 of the last 5 titles with two different riders.
A bike that can be ridden equally fast by riders with very different styles (see Dovi, Crutchlow and Ben himself -- he once won Assen on it after all).
If it was another rider I would think he's looking for excuses; but Ben has had an awful lot of bad luck, has been pushed out of Yamaha, and now has a lot of resentment towards them (and also Valentino), so that explains the sour tone; he also sees the fact that (for one reason or another) it is unlikely he will ever win much in MotoGP.
Hence he's now heading back to WSBK; 2013 an interlocutory year, 2014 on a (hopefully already sorted) Panigale.
Good luck Ben!
A bike that can be ridden equally fast by riders with very different styles (see Dovi, Crutchlow and Ben himself -- he once won Assen on it after all).
If it was another rider I would think he's looking for excuses; but Ben has had an awful lot of bad luck, has been pushed out of Yamaha, and now has a lot of resentment towards them (and also Valentino), so that explains the sour tone; he also sees the fact that (for one reason or another) it is unlikely he will ever win much in MotoGP.
Hence he's now heading back to WSBK; 2013 an interlocutory year, 2014 on a (hopefully already sorted) Panigale.
Good luck Ben!
He won at Assen in shocking conditions that the go-fast boys couldn't get to grips with - cold, damp track.
in fine weather, at the correct temperatures for the tyres, has he ever managed a decent place?
in fine weather, at the correct temperatures for the tyres, has he ever managed a decent place?
It's a shame that Ben feels he was pushed out of Yamaha. From what I can make out, it seems to me he was frustrated by his lack of results and so was the team. Maybe what they said to him was harsh but I am guessing that is down to frustration at his results compared to his team mates. I can sort of see both sides here. They want two riders doing well and he seemed to have one thing after another happen to him that ruined his chances.
Oh and blaming him for getting sick is a little unfair, you can be as careful as you like but anyone can get caught that way.
Oh and blaming him for getting sick is a little unfair, you can be as careful as you like but anyone can get caught that way.
J4rn0
BJ.C
Αre u ....... kidding me ? (SORRY about that Lyria )
At 2010 with tech3 finished 6th as rookie (with his old style , before change his style. And style i mean racing line, breaking before the corner etc reread the article to understand better ) . Beter from stoner at 2006 (8th) , better from super SIC58 at 2010 (8th) , better from Bradl at 2012 (8th) , better from Cal at 2011 (12th). As rookie he went FANTASTIC , only pedrosa , lorenzo and hayden went better ,as rookie ,but they went to factories bike and motogp fans loved them immediately ( the "low" which i said previously)
And at 2011 with factory M1, went to hit top three at championship suddenly he change his style and the year for Ben was worsed (as factory M1) from 2010 . He "delete" everything and start copy Lorenzo. Thats suicide man , copletely crazy,The unrecognizable Ben Spies (thats would be a good movie for this year). We saw how uncomfortable was driving, like his first time on bike.
I dont know what excalty happend , but i dont blame you , me , or etc. I blame for sure Ben and yamaha for 2012 , clearly sabotage !!!
He chose to go to the satellte ducati from satellite honda, lets see....!
For sure its difficult for him but i expect some good results !
3399081357220010
OK, so Ben didn't gel with the M1, a bike that won 4 of the last 5 titles with two different riders.
A bike that can be ridden equally fast by riders with very different styles (see Dovi, Crutchlow and Ben himself -- he once won Assen on it after all).
If it was another rider I would think he's looking for excuses; but Ben has had an awful lot of bad luck, has been pushed out of Yamaha, and now has a lot of resentment towards them (and also Valentino), so that explains the sour tone; he also sees the fact that (for one reason or another) it is unlikely he will ever win much in MotoGP.
Hence he's now heading back to WSBK; 2013 an interlocutory year, 2014 on a (hopefully already sorted) Panigale.
Good luck Ben!
BJ.C
Αre u ....... kidding me ? (SORRY about that Lyria
)At 2010 with tech3 finished 6th as rookie (with his old style , before change his style. And style i mean racing line, breaking before the corner etc reread the article to understand better ) . Beter from stoner at 2006 (8th) , better from super SIC58 at 2010 (8th) , better from Bradl at 2012 (8th) , better from Cal at 2011 (12th). As rookie he went FANTASTIC , only pedrosa , lorenzo and hayden went better ,as rookie ,but they went to factories bike and motogp fans loved them immediately ( the "low" which i said previously)
And at 2011 with factory M1, went to hit top three at championship suddenly he change his style and the year for Ben was worsed (as factory M1) from 2010 . He "delete" everything and start copy Lorenzo. Thats suicide man , copletely crazy,The unrecognizable Ben Spies (thats would be a good movie for this year). We saw how uncomfortable was driving, like his first time on bike.
I dont know what excalty happend , but i dont blame you , me , or etc. I blame for sure Ben and yamaha for 2012 , clearly sabotage !!!
He chose to go to the satellte ducati from satellite honda, lets see....!
For sure its difficult for him but i expect some good results !
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Sounds like he made the same basic mistake as Flossi in jumping to 'fix' the bike, rather than adapting and riding it in the manner required. If both 46 and 99 like it soft, well... maybe they're on to something?!
Food poisoning is an occupational hazard to be avoided. Eating out is fun, but you have only yourself to blame if you wake up the next morning with your guts inside out. Many racers make a point of preparing as much food as possible at the track, under clean conditions. It seems that Ben gets a good case of the pukes about once a year - way too often, IMO.
Also can't agree with Spies' contention that all the mechanical mayhem was just 'bad luck.' The pit consensus seems to lean toward pointing a finger at the crew. Hell, even the oh-so-politically-correct Eurosport trio (N. Spaulding in this case) suggested that poor preparation was to blame for the late-season brake meltdown. (The necessity of cleaning the calipers so many times a day.) IMO, Ben has huge blind spot re. the competence of Houseworth and/or some of the other mechanics. Look for the 'bad luck' to continue at Ducati.
I can't see any of the new Duc riders doing much better than poor ol Nicky. Everyone said that he would go great on the POS, but that's clearly not the case. Crazy Joe is young and dumb enough to have some hope, but Dovi and Ben will be nowhere.
How long 'till the first test of the season?!
Food poisoning is an occupational hazard to be avoided. Eating out is fun, but you have only yourself to blame if you wake up the next morning with your guts inside out. Many racers make a point of preparing as much food as possible at the track, under clean conditions. It seems that Ben gets a good case of the pukes about once a year - way too often, IMO.
Also can't agree with Spies' contention that all the mechanical mayhem was just 'bad luck.' The pit consensus seems to lean toward pointing a finger at the crew. Hell, even the oh-so-politically-correct Eurosport trio (N. Spaulding in this case) suggested that poor preparation was to blame for the late-season brake meltdown. (The necessity of cleaning the calipers so many times a day.) IMO, Ben has huge blind spot re. the competence of Houseworth and/or some of the other mechanics. Look for the 'bad luck' to continue at Ducati.
I can't see any of the new Duc riders doing much better than poor ol Nicky. Everyone said that he would go great on the POS, but that's clearly not the case. Crazy Joe is young and dumb enough to have some hope, but Dovi and Ben will be nowhere.
How long 'till the first test of the season?!
Geonerd
Not sure how much is the teams fault. How many of his team besides Houseworth followed him over from Tech3?
I don't remember him having any issues at all there. Was very consistent & the bike worked well for him. Fast forward one year on a factory spec bike & team & all of a sudden he is slower compared to the competition? I don't know. Something just doesn't sound right about that. Did any bike on the grid have half the mechanical failures Ben's factory Yamaha had? Everybody seems to point the finger at Ben & his team but how does a factory spec bike, backed by a major manufacturer like Yamaha have so many part failures on one side of the garage & not one on the other? Doesn't sit right with me. Yamaha seem to be blameless according to most observers, but they are the one manufacturing & supplying those failing parts. I ask this. If Valentino has the same amount of failures as Ben did with Lorenzo having none, do you think his fans will let Yamaha off the hook so easy? No chance. And rightly so. I just think perhaps Ben deserves the same consideration. After all he proved in 2010 he could ride a Yamaha fast.
Not sure how much is the teams fault. How many of his team besides Houseworth followed him over from Tech3?
I don't remember him having any issues at all there. Was very consistent & the bike worked well for him. Fast forward one year on a factory spec bike & team & all of a sudden he is slower compared to the competition? I don't know. Something just doesn't sound right about that. Did any bike on the grid have half the mechanical failures Ben's factory Yamaha had? Everybody seems to point the finger at Ben & his team but how does a factory spec bike, backed by a major manufacturer like Yamaha have so many part failures on one side of the garage & not one on the other? Doesn't sit right with me. Yamaha seem to be blameless according to most observers, but they are the one manufacturing & supplying those failing parts. I ask this. If Valentino has the same amount of failures as Ben did with Lorenzo having none, do you think his fans will let Yamaha off the hook so easy? No chance. And rightly so. I just think perhaps Ben deserves the same consideration. After all he proved in 2010 he could ride a Yamaha fast.
