Ben Spies' "Litany of reasons"
- Thread starter Kropotkin
- Start date
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
BJ.C
Strangest take of the thread and only got worse (confirmed by Migs agreeing with you, which is the sign that your on the wrong side of a take). I take it you're a Stoner fan, I think, if so you would be sobbing bloody murder if half the .... would have happened to Stoner during his time at HRC. What would have been your takes if Stoner would have been sent out on a cracked frame, broken visor, severed swing arm, chunked tire (oh this would have ben good) etc. etc. You attributing his mechanical problem to his particular riding style because he crashed during practice as you suggest (and some others here) is nothing less than stupid.
Blaming the tool? His fault he didn't get the same results as his teammate? It seems you didn't read or understand the article coupled with not paying attention to where much of those failures came from. I suppose you would also blame yourself if you crashed your car while driving down the road and your axel cracked in half. Your fault right? I could imagine seeing you now after such a incident, talking to yourself in the mirror: 'You suck you whining sickly good for nothing. Don't make excuses you ........ Why did you step on the accelerator? Of course the axle was going to break you moron, its your fault!' ...(as you pointed at yourself in the mirror) hahaha.
Getting sick his fault? This has got to be one of the strangest things I have read on this forum, and some impressively stupid .... has been said here over the years. I suppose as much fault as Casey getting sick too. I mean, hey, these guys are robots and immune to the world they are exposed to, right? After all, they live in a sealed plastic bubble and only come out to race during the event.
I hadn't noticed much your takes up to this point as they seemed fair, again I admit I had not particularly taken distinct interest; but after reading your takes on Spies here, I hope you were drunk when you entered this thread, or reveal that Spies had stolen your girlfriend or something because this one post above was just the start of some very strange opinions regarding this article. If you were high, my apologies.
Strangest take of the thread and only got worse (confirmed by Migs agreeing with you, which is the sign that your on the wrong side of a take). I take it you're a Stoner fan, I think, if so you would be sobbing bloody murder if half the .... would have happened to Stoner during his time at HRC. What would have been your takes if Stoner would have been sent out on a cracked frame, broken visor, severed swing arm, chunked tire (oh this would have ben good) etc. etc. You attributing his mechanical problem to his particular riding style because he crashed during practice as you suggest (and some others here) is nothing less than stupid.
Blaming the tool? His fault he didn't get the same results as his teammate? It seems you didn't read or understand the article coupled with not paying attention to where much of those failures came from. I suppose you would also blame yourself if you crashed your car while driving down the road and your axel cracked in half. Your fault right? I could imagine seeing you now after such a incident, talking to yourself in the mirror: 'You suck you whining sickly good for nothing. Don't make excuses you ........ Why did you step on the accelerator? Of course the axle was going to break you moron, its your fault!' ...(as you pointed at yourself in the mirror) hahaha.
Getting sick his fault? This has got to be one of the strangest things I have read on this forum, and some impressively stupid .... has been said here over the years. I suppose as much fault as Casey getting sick too. I mean, hey, these guys are robots and immune to the world they are exposed to, right? After all, they live in a sealed plastic bubble and only come out to race during the event.
I hadn't noticed much your takes up to this point as they seemed fair, again I admit I had not particularly taken distinct interest; but after reading your takes on Spies here, I hope you were drunk when you entered this thread, or reveal that Spies had stolen your girlfriend or something because this one post above was just the start of some very strange opinions regarding this article. If you were high, my apologies.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Frizzle
Excellent take, as usual Friz.
How anybody can take anything different than what you have stated above regarding Spies' year and situation is what has me a bit boggled. Such a double standard depending on the rider in question, eh. Stoner gets sick and its was just him being a ....., right. Rossi can't perform on a Ducati and it was ALL the bike and program's fault. Spies' bike(s) break down far beyond the normal outlier and it was Ben's fault. What the .... has happened to reason in this world?!?
Excellent take, as usual Friz.
How anybody can take anything different than what you have stated above regarding Spies' year and situation is what has me a bit boggled. Such a double standard depending on the rider in question, eh. Stoner gets sick and its was just him being a ....., right. Rossi can't perform on a Ducati and it was ALL the bike and program's fault. Spies' bike(s) break down far beyond the normal outlier and it was Ben's fault. What the .... has happened to reason in this world?!?
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
BJ.C
Man if my swingarm broke while I was riding down the corkscrew at my home race and some smart ... exec suit got in my face about poor performance!!!!!!!!!!!! Im not normally prone to violence but that would make my blood boil I would have punched his lights out. Yamaha paid for him so its their responsibility to ensure he gets what he needs to perform. To me Spies went ok in testing on the stiff bike with the computer turned down. He often qualified well with the computer turned down. He raced .... with the computer turned up to save the precious fuel. He's bigger than Stoner and although he said he wants to ride in a similar or 'lose' style he simply cant do that being some 10 kilos or more heavier than Stoner. Remember Crutchlow rode lose and ragged in one race and ran out of fuel. The Yamaha is not developed to ride this way. Yamaha are probably not interested in developing electronics to suit that style, they just told him to ride it like Lorenzo. Plus there were a few races in 2011 where Lorenzo had to use Spies so called 'stiffer' settings and couldnt beat him and I bet they didnt like it and made sure Yamaha didnt develop towards it. Hence the big downturn in results. Now put Spies and Lorenzo on Ducati's and I think some people might be surprised how quickly things can change.
I reckon Spies was backed into motogp by Yamaha USA and a lot of the traditionalists at Yamaha Japan didnt like it. Plus Yamaha is split, always has been. They are "the wall" company remember. Even now they are not united in wanting Rossi back, in fact the guy in charge of the race team has said it on record. The difference is when Rossi has an issue he can send Uccio to the execs with the big yellow dildo in hand to 'persuade' them to do as they are told!
Man if my swingarm broke while I was riding down the corkscrew at my home race and some smart ... exec suit got in my face about poor performance!!!!!!!!!!!! Im not normally prone to violence but that would make my blood boil I would have punched his lights out. Yamaha paid for him so its their responsibility to ensure he gets what he needs to perform. To me Spies went ok in testing on the stiff bike with the computer turned down. He often qualified well with the computer turned down. He raced .... with the computer turned up to save the precious fuel. He's bigger than Stoner and although he said he wants to ride in a similar or 'lose' style he simply cant do that being some 10 kilos or more heavier than Stoner. Remember Crutchlow rode lose and ragged in one race and ran out of fuel. The Yamaha is not developed to ride this way. Yamaha are probably not interested in developing electronics to suit that style, they just told him to ride it like Lorenzo. Plus there were a few races in 2011 where Lorenzo had to use Spies so called 'stiffer' settings and couldnt beat him and I bet they didnt like it and made sure Yamaha didnt develop towards it. Hence the big downturn in results. Now put Spies and Lorenzo on Ducati's and I think some people might be surprised how quickly things can change.
I reckon Spies was backed into motogp by Yamaha USA and a lot of the traditionalists at Yamaha Japan didnt like it. Plus Yamaha is split, always has been. They are "the wall" company remember. Even now they are not united in wanting Rossi back, in fact the guy in charge of the race team has said it on record. The difference is when Rossi has an issue he can send Uccio to the execs with the big yellow dildo in hand to 'persuade' them to do as they are told!
Jum is right when he says "what the .... happened to reason in this world?"
Spies is supposed to ride the bike like it is engineered to ride and all faults/failures are his fault.
Ducati are supposed to develop the bike to suit Rossi's style and all failures to do so are Ducati's.
Spies has 1 bad season and should be out of MotoGP.
Rossi has 2 bad seasons and deserves the best bike in MotoGP.
No wonder MotoGP has .... all fans around the world. Most normal people can't comprehend the insanity of the politics and sports fans certainly won't start or get hooked as soon as the blatant lack of 'sport' is understood. I know there is a big fan base for WWE and Nascar but surely there is a bigger base of 'sports fans' that can be enticed.
Spies is supposed to ride the bike like it is engineered to ride and all faults/failures are his fault.
Ducati are supposed to develop the bike to suit Rossi's style and all failures to do so are Ducati's.
Spies has 1 bad season and should be out of MotoGP.
Rossi has 2 bad seasons and deserves the best bike in MotoGP.
No wonder MotoGP has .... all fans around the world. Most normal people can't comprehend the insanity of the politics and sports fans certainly won't start or get hooked as soon as the blatant lack of 'sport' is understood. I know there is a big fan base for WWE and Nascar but surely there is a bigger base of 'sports fans' that can be enticed.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
MA, u cant be so hard on VR's tenure at Duc. He had a plethora of engineering issues. I mean, how could he keep up with all the changes they made to the bike on his behest (allegedly). Its not easy having the manufacture revamp their entire program around u in as little as two years u know. Its amazing they didnt experience more mechanical issues than they did, like the electronics going bonkers in a couple of races (oh wait, that was NH not VR). Well...to VRs credit, he did develop the Duc into a wet weather powerhouse. I mean he was the best Duc at the socked Silverstone rounds both years (oh wait, that was NH not VR). Well, the potential was there right? I mean, he was gaining positions in the wet at Jerez 10, well at least until he torpedoed CS. Oh, u know what i mean, he does have a couple of wet weather podiums and thats not magic (of course a few others had crashed in those races). Wait, what was my point? Oh yeah, VR suffered through many mechanicals. Like 'engine' failures. Wait, i mean 'engineering' failures. Oh, i digress. Just having a bit of fun.
Regarding Spies. I think Friz was spot on. The benefit of doubt is not evenly assigned and the level of expectation and outrage for mishaps is relative. Oh Lord, i can only imagine if Pedro was being sent out in cracked frames the .... we would have endured by one A.Pig. Jesus, he was having a fit when Nicky was supposedly privy to Pedros data. Haha. Look, let me explain the GP logic to u, when CS was crashing Ducs it was his fault...obviously. When VR was crashing the Ducs it was Duc's fault. U see? Its easy to follow. So obviously when Spies' swing arm broke, or didnt detect his frame was cracked, or his visor defective in pouring rain, his tire chunking, and his engine blew, well...naturally it was Spies to blame. Easy as 1+1=46 logic.
Jumkie
If I had recently crashed my car and hadn't had it checked over, then yes, my fault.
Stoner has a 'condition', Spies got food poisoning. For a professional athlete, there is no-one to blame but himself. comparing one bout of food poisoning with a physical condition where your body doesn't work is asinine.
Just one difference is, Stoner found out what it was and did something about it, Spies whined and put it down to bad luck.
He should have been more careful.
But I get it, I really do. Any rider can be criticised except for any rider from the US - I should have realised.
If I had recently crashed my car and hadn't had it checked over, then yes, my fault.
Stoner has a 'condition', Spies got food poisoning. For a professional athlete, there is no-one to blame but himself. comparing one bout of food poisoning with a physical condition where your body doesn't work is asinine.
Just one difference is, Stoner found out what it was and did something about it, Spies whined and put it down to bad luck.
He should have been more careful.
But I get it, I really do. Any rider can be criticised except for any rider from the US - I should have realised.
birdman
Is that what happened? It looks like you are conflating unrelated events.
.........
Spies finished ahead of Lorenzo twice in 2011 - Assen - wet, cold, no-one else of the top runners could get anything out of their bikes. Indy - Lorenzo was ahead of Spies until lap 18, having ridden with a failing tyre from lap 7.
Is that what happened? It looks like you are conflating unrelated events.
.........
Spies finished ahead of Lorenzo twice in 2011 - Assen - wet, cold, no-one else of the top runners could get anything out of their bikes. Indy - Lorenzo was ahead of Spies until lap 18, having ridden with a failing tyre from lap 7.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
BJ.C
How many times do MotoGP racers who crash during practice then inspect every part of their bike before they race? Probable exactly zero. Lame.
CS had a condition? Well stupid him for not knowing it and attempting to race that season, right? (sarcasm to point out what a dumb point ur trying to make). Another lame response. Health "conditions" are not static moron. It took months to figure out what was wrong with CS, why? Do u think he was keeping it a secret all those races leading up to his illness? And that "condition" turned acute illness, yes thats right, it became an acute problem, may have been triggered by the stress of their particular sport, or maybe some .... he ate. Why? Because biology is complicated not some linear function u try here to attribute blame to the victum of acute illness. As in a "condition" as u so ignorantly put it, same for acute illness, it is often caused by unforeseen circumstances beyond control. Do u think Casey ate .... on purpose to aggrivate his illness to a debilitating point? Then why do u think Spies deliberately ate .... to get food poisoning? Wait, u dont actually think he ate poison do u?. U sound more stupid the more u continue this line of reasoning.
U are a relative newcomer here, but with this thread u've made ur splash in similar fashion to those that said Casey was a ..... for not riding while "pretending to be sick"; that is, ur logic is limited to who u root for regardless of what the rider explained. Spies said he was sick and soldiered the race. What then is ur answer to those who also disbelieved Stoner and described it as mere 'whining' (as u have done) and called him a whining ..... for not soldiering through his illness? By ur logic, and a splendid revelation it is here, ur response would have been to tell Casey to stop whining and excuse making (as u are saying of Spies) and should simply "have been more careful" not to aggravate his "condition". Lame.
U pulling out the nationalistic card is weak. Im not particularly a Spies fan, but any moron (except u and Migs) can see as it was well documented that much of Ben's problems this season were flat out .... that happened from a mechanical nature. Most people call that "bad luck". Why? Cuz .... is not suppose to break, so when it does, its rather a bit unexplainable. No 'riding style' is to blame for the parts failures or special stress on the "prototype", purpose built, exotic materials MotoGP bike he rode. These machines are not suppose to break because a mothafucker rides it too hard. Hahaha, im laughing at the thought. Dude, ur either very ignorant or a complete ..... in terms of this sport.
How many times do MotoGP racers who crash during practice then inspect every part of their bike before they race? Probable exactly zero. Lame.
CS had a condition? Well stupid him for not knowing it and attempting to race that season, right? (sarcasm to point out what a dumb point ur trying to make). Another lame response. Health "conditions" are not static moron. It took months to figure out what was wrong with CS, why? Do u think he was keeping it a secret all those races leading up to his illness? And that "condition" turned acute illness, yes thats right, it became an acute problem, may have been triggered by the stress of their particular sport, or maybe some .... he ate. Why? Because biology is complicated not some linear function u try here to attribute blame to the victum of acute illness. As in a "condition" as u so ignorantly put it, same for acute illness, it is often caused by unforeseen circumstances beyond control. Do u think Casey ate .... on purpose to aggrivate his illness to a debilitating point? Then why do u think Spies deliberately ate .... to get food poisoning? Wait, u dont actually think he ate poison do u?. U sound more stupid the more u continue this line of reasoning.
U are a relative newcomer here, but with this thread u've made ur splash in similar fashion to those that said Casey was a ..... for not riding while "pretending to be sick"; that is, ur logic is limited to who u root for regardless of what the rider explained. Spies said he was sick and soldiered the race. What then is ur answer to those who also disbelieved Stoner and described it as mere 'whining' (as u have done) and called him a whining ..... for not soldiering through his illness? By ur logic, and a splendid revelation it is here, ur response would have been to tell Casey to stop whining and excuse making (as u are saying of Spies) and should simply "have been more careful" not to aggravate his "condition". Lame.
U pulling out the nationalistic card is weak. Im not particularly a Spies fan, but any moron (except u and Migs) can see as it was well documented that much of Ben's problems this season were flat out .... that happened from a mechanical nature. Most people call that "bad luck". Why? Cuz .... is not suppose to break, so when it does, its rather a bit unexplainable. No 'riding style' is to blame for the parts failures or special stress on the "prototype", purpose built, exotic materials MotoGP bike he rode. These machines are not suppose to break because a mothafucker rides it too hard. Hahaha, im laughing at the thought. Dude, ur either very ignorant or a complete ..... in terms of this sport.
And your illiterate rant doesn't make you an expert.
I may be new here, but in my mid 50s I have been racing, watching and dissecting this sport for longer than you have been on the planet, so you can take your pompous tripe and shove it.
I may be new here, but in my mid 50s I have been racing, watching and dissecting this sport for longer than you have been on the planet, so you can take your pompous tripe and shove it.
BJ.C
What exactly was illiterate? He just didn't agree with your opinion. No big deal, it's a forum after all.
Spies did a great job on a tech3 Yamaha then went crap on a factory spec one. I think that makes things a little suspect.
At the very least he deserves some element of doubt. The bike (factory Yamaha) broke down in about 50% of the races.
When he rode the tech 3 version it never broke down.
Jorge's never broke down in the same season either. Spies is far better than last years results show.
Hope he shows that in 2013. I like the guy & reckon he has some serious talent.
He belongs in this series far more than some of the other riders do.
What exactly was illiterate? He just didn't agree with your opinion. No big deal, it's a forum after all.
Spies did a great job on a tech3 Yamaha then went crap on a factory spec one. I think that makes things a little suspect.
At the very least he deserves some element of doubt. The bike (factory Yamaha) broke down in about 50% of the races.
When he rode the tech 3 version it never broke down.
Jorge's never broke down in the same season either. Spies is far better than last years results show.
Hope he shows that in 2013. I like the guy & reckon he has some serious talent.
He belongs in this series far more than some of the other riders do.
BJ.C
Hahaha! So watching racing for 40+ years makes YOU the expert though right?
This is why this place is so easy to bait, just because someone posted a concise argument that happened to disagree with your opinion, its pompous tripe that they can shove up their arsehole?!
You're like a religious fanatic, if someone doesnt agree with you your response is to shout louder.
Hahaha! So watching racing for 40+ years makes YOU the expert though right?
This is why this place is so easy to bait, just because someone posted a concise argument that happened to disagree with your opinion, its pompous tripe that they can shove up their arsehole?!
You're like a religious fanatic, if someone doesnt agree with you your response is to shout louder.
I haven't watched this kind of racing for long as you all know but even I could see Ben Spies had the worst luck going in the races I did watch. You do begin to wonder after a whihle if it is all bad luck or if something else is going on too. I'm not going to suggest the team would do something to his bike, that's dangerous and stupid too not to mention expensive, no team is that dumb surely.
We all know that with any sport a good part of it is mental, if you're 'in the zone' and feeling comfortable etc. you drive/ride/swing/play better, whatever the sport. Hell even my when my dad played crown green bowls if you have a day when you're feeling out of it for whatever reason you don't do as well. If Ben was made to feel like he wasn't as wanted in that garage it's going to affect his ability to ride the bike in the way he is capable of when he's properly focused. I'd be more inclined to think it was this more than anything else that was repsonsible for his bad results. You see it in all sports, make a person feel like they're not welcome or whatever and they go right off their game, from what he's said Ben felt that way at Yamaha and it was never going to help his results was it?
We all know that with any sport a good part of it is mental, if you're 'in the zone' and feeling comfortable etc. you drive/ride/swing/play better, whatever the sport. Hell even my when my dad played crown green bowls if you have a day when you're feeling out of it for whatever reason you don't do as well. If Ben was made to feel like he wasn't as wanted in that garage it's going to affect his ability to ride the bike in the way he is capable of when he's properly focused. I'd be more inclined to think it was this more than anything else that was repsonsible for his bad results. You see it in all sports, make a person feel like they're not welcome or whatever and they go right off their game, from what he's said Ben felt that way at Yamaha and it was never going to help his results was it?
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Very true,
Look at Heinz Harald Frentzen in the late 90's. In 1998 he was crap in the Williams with just one podium, a known 'hard on its drivers' team. Moved to Jordan in 1999 and won two races and nearly the world championship.
I would like to see a refreshed Spies this year, how that will translate on track with the Duck I don't know.
Look at Heinz Harald Frentzen in the late 90's. In 1998 he was crap in the Williams with just one podium, a known 'hard on its drivers' team. Moved to Jordan in 1999 and won two races and nearly the world championship.
I would like to see a refreshed Spies this year, how that will translate on track with the Duck I don't know.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
BJ.C
:lol: yeah, i did come off a bit harsh dude, but come on man, calling Spies a "whiner" cuz he blamed some mechanicals last season on some bad luck? Thats gonna get a reaction. Anyway, about my literacy, yeah, its terrible. Keep in mind, im responding by phone so im texting using 'shorthand'. Something foreign to us 'oldtimers'. (ur not that much older than me).
:lol: yeah, i did come off a bit harsh dude, but come on man, calling Spies a "whiner" cuz he blamed some mechanicals last season on some bad luck? Thats gonna get a reaction. Anyway, about my literacy, yeah, its terrible. Keep in mind, im responding by phone so im texting using 'shorthand'. Something foreign to us 'oldtimers'. (ur not that much older than me).
Joined Jun 2008
2K Posts | 6+
America
So today it is released that Monster will be the title sponsor of the Yamaha factory Moto GP team.........cause Ben Spies coulda brought em in right?
No doubt Yamaha craved this one, don't doubt they knew it would come when they got Vale back, and Monster will be on Jorge's bike as well. Looks like the money side of things are getting brighter for the Yam team eh?
No doubt Yamaha craved this one, don't doubt they knew it would come when they got Vale back, and Monster will be on Jorge's bike as well. Looks like the money side of things are getting brighter for the Yam team eh?
Joined Jun 2008
2K Posts | 6+
America
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/187158/1/yamaha_does_monster_deal_for_rossi_lorenzo.html
Ok correction. They are saying that Monster will not be a "full title" sponsor. Ok, but I bet the money is still substantial.
Ok correction. They are saying that Monster will not be a "full title" sponsor. Ok, but I bet the money is still substantial.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
