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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yello13 @ Jul 29 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are not the only one. I am a big believer in him but the cold, hard truth is that<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'> WSBK is a second class junior series as far as talent is concerned. Dominating such a championship, although impressive, is not guarantee for GP success.
Hi Yello, I doubt this very much sir. MotoGP is about building a better mousetrap. This is a concept lost by those who argue any comparison between the two series. It’s inherently very different. WSBK is about trying to field production bikes and make them competitive to eachother as much as possible, MotoGP is about hand crafting a machine with the highest technology available in technology, materials, engineers, resources, etc--which underscores the gap between machines.
Take for example Melandri and Hayden, riders who had gone as title and runner up on Honda but back markers on Ducati. This should give you a clue as to "talent vs machine". Look at Melandri now, on a sub par Kawasaki with no development, he has gone to respectable midpacking, what changed—the machines they rode. Haga did a similar move, he jumped from one factory to another, and he has continued about the same. Max Biaggi was a top five contender while on the Suzuki, and has continued that on the Aprillia. Troy Corser was a little out of the top 5 and has continue about the same on a totally new entry, BMW (no just a new entry but a new wing for BMW, so we can cut a little slack here, though its coming along well as evidenced by the last round). Why? Because in WSBK the machines, being based on production models, are inherently similar to eachother across brands.
Add to this the unique body type that is required to be successful in GP. Its a much narrow parameter and limits the field on something not regarding “talent” at all but also heavly influence of stature (something out of the control). Anyway, I could go on and on with this point, but I suspect I may not convince you. The truth is that WSBK is the top level of production machines more evenly matched (fact). Please, somebody, don’t go making the argument that they are the “same” as I didn’t say this but rather ‘inherently more similar’ than GP. Therefore, the more talented riders surface to the top in a way that is more ‘reliable’. If your argument is that being a great superbiker is no guarantee for GP success, then really the opposite is also true, being a GP rider is no guarantee for superbike success. That is a moot point really.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Another thing I dislike about Spies is that I believe he is naturally arrogant and his humbleness is self-imposed and trained for good PR. He DOES deserve credit for actively trying to be humble and considerate since that is more than a lot of riders, but the hidden arrogance is still a minus in my book.
Haha, you know that's the same impression I got too Yello. Its why I never warmed up to him here in the States. Like I said, I don't particularly like him "personally" (though I admit, all of which has been formulated by an unfair snapshot of him while he's in his "office" so do speak). Though this should not be the only consideration, other riders with their "game face" on in the paddock are much more friendly and personable, right. But I've learned to accept that in the paddock people have diverse personalities and react to the stress of performing differently.
Certainly this is not a reason to color his statistics as good or bad (and I know you are not saying this) but have you considered that the guy might be ‘shy’ and we mistake it with ‘arrogance’? The reason I'm suggesting this is because my best friend is very shy, and I can't tell you the amount of times he's been accused of being arrogant or a snob. Fact is he's just an introvert. My buddy gets allot of attention because people consider him very smart, genius really, but he hates the attention, and this turns others off. I guess what I'm saying is that I have accepted Spies is no Jake Zemke, or Josh Hayes (not sure if you know these guys but they are very friendly) or a Rossi or Hayden who just with their smile will light up a room. Spies is not like that, but that doesn't mean he is arrogant.
Listen to his post race interviews, the dude almost always acknowledges his competitors first. Also, may I add, he is well like in the paddock by other riders. That says allot. Why? Because when you and I get to see him at the autograph signing or the interview on TV, or in his garage preparing, etc, the riders get to interact with him in the lounges or waiting rooms, airports, and meetings, and before the autograph sessions or interview; you get what I'm saying? They get to see Spies during his down time. And as I have understood it, many have befriended him. Think about this for a moment, seriously, these types of people almost never make friends with rivals. I think I recall Spies and Haga have BBQs together. And apparently Fabrizio "loves him" as I recall seeing a sign on TV recently that said, "I love you Ben!" (hahaha, just a joke).
Anyway Yella, yeah I hear you man. He doesn't seem the approachable type. His facial expressions seem a bit contrived. I'll give you that, but man, I could probably come up with a few good reasons why he might be acting like that. Then again, you might be right, he could easily be an arrogant prick. If that were the case though, I think he would get the treatment that a Peders gets in the paddock. Anyway my 2 cents.
Hi Yello, I doubt this very much sir. MotoGP is about building a better mousetrap. This is a concept lost by those who argue any comparison between the two series. It’s inherently very different. WSBK is about trying to field production bikes and make them competitive to eachother as much as possible, MotoGP is about hand crafting a machine with the highest technology available in technology, materials, engineers, resources, etc--which underscores the gap between machines.
Take for example Melandri and Hayden, riders who had gone as title and runner up on Honda but back markers on Ducati. This should give you a clue as to "talent vs machine". Look at Melandri now, on a sub par Kawasaki with no development, he has gone to respectable midpacking, what changed—the machines they rode. Haga did a similar move, he jumped from one factory to another, and he has continued about the same. Max Biaggi was a top five contender while on the Suzuki, and has continued that on the Aprillia. Troy Corser was a little out of the top 5 and has continue about the same on a totally new entry, BMW (no just a new entry but a new wing for BMW, so we can cut a little slack here, though its coming along well as evidenced by the last round). Why? Because in WSBK the machines, being based on production models, are inherently similar to eachother across brands.
Add to this the unique body type that is required to be successful in GP. Its a much narrow parameter and limits the field on something not regarding “talent” at all but also heavly influence of stature (something out of the control). Anyway, I could go on and on with this point, but I suspect I may not convince you. The truth is that WSBK is the top level of production machines more evenly matched (fact). Please, somebody, don’t go making the argument that they are the “same” as I didn’t say this but rather ‘inherently more similar’ than GP. Therefore, the more talented riders surface to the top in a way that is more ‘reliable’. If your argument is that being a great superbiker is no guarantee for GP success, then really the opposite is also true, being a GP rider is no guarantee for superbike success. That is a moot point really.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Another thing I dislike about Spies is that I believe he is naturally arrogant and his humbleness is self-imposed and trained for good PR. He DOES deserve credit for actively trying to be humble and considerate since that is more than a lot of riders, but the hidden arrogance is still a minus in my book.
Haha, you know that's the same impression I got too Yello. Its why I never warmed up to him here in the States. Like I said, I don't particularly like him "personally" (though I admit, all of which has been formulated by an unfair snapshot of him while he's in his "office" so do speak). Though this should not be the only consideration, other riders with their "game face" on in the paddock are much more friendly and personable, right. But I've learned to accept that in the paddock people have diverse personalities and react to the stress of performing differently.
Certainly this is not a reason to color his statistics as good or bad (and I know you are not saying this) but have you considered that the guy might be ‘shy’ and we mistake it with ‘arrogance’? The reason I'm suggesting this is because my best friend is very shy, and I can't tell you the amount of times he's been accused of being arrogant or a snob. Fact is he's just an introvert. My buddy gets allot of attention because people consider him very smart, genius really, but he hates the attention, and this turns others off. I guess what I'm saying is that I have accepted Spies is no Jake Zemke, or Josh Hayes (not sure if you know these guys but they are very friendly) or a Rossi or Hayden who just with their smile will light up a room. Spies is not like that, but that doesn't mean he is arrogant.
Listen to his post race interviews, the dude almost always acknowledges his competitors first. Also, may I add, he is well like in the paddock by other riders. That says allot. Why? Because when you and I get to see him at the autograph signing or the interview on TV, or in his garage preparing, etc, the riders get to interact with him in the lounges or waiting rooms, airports, and meetings, and before the autograph sessions or interview; you get what I'm saying? They get to see Spies during his down time. And as I have understood it, many have befriended him. Think about this for a moment, seriously, these types of people almost never make friends with rivals. I think I recall Spies and Haga have BBQs together. And apparently Fabrizio "loves him" as I recall seeing a sign on TV recently that said, "I love you Ben!" (hahaha, just a joke).
Anyway Yella, yeah I hear you man. He doesn't seem the approachable type. His facial expressions seem a bit contrived. I'll give you that, but man, I could probably come up with a few good reasons why he might be acting like that. Then again, you might be right, he could easily be an arrogant prick. If that were the case though, I think he would get the treatment that a Peders gets in the paddock. Anyway my 2 cents.
. If Spies makes it to MotoGP its definitely SPIES! I just hope he makes it in time before 2012. As that is supposedly when Rossi will stop riding. Then we will know what Spies is really made off.
