Assen

Gaz said:

As he says, he admits he has issues with Assen (what he does not say of course is the starting point) so in many ways, he is somewhat behind the eight ball before he starts.

As for the wet discussion, well he has won races in the wet (Michelins) so that should dispell that theory but near all happily (begrudgingly) admit that changeable conditions are a different matter altogether.

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Do you recall the last wet race Lorenzo won?

moto vudu said:

Do you recall the last wet race Lorenzo won?

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From the top of the head, I do recall a soaking Silverstone that he won as it is used as a bench mark and often mentioned here but he also won at Aragon around 2014/2015 (haven't checked) and a few others.

But, one needs to weight up the number won versus the number of wet races in which he competed and with brutal honesty, I have not seen any statistic along those lines as the declarations of what constitutes wet has changed over the years (given that wet is the classification that appears on the results sheet, not what you, I or the rock refer to as wet)

Edit - Lemans 2012

Gaz said:

Moto 3 related - yes, wrong thread but nobody goes there so here we go.

Bendsnyder finishes but gets dq'ed - https://streamable.com/lo1sg

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Why the DQ? Not crossing the finish line with bike? Does he need to go back on track and touch the motorcycle to cement his finishing position? Or related to the collision itself?

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Why the DQ? Not crossing the finish line with bike? Does he need to go back on track and touch the motorcycle to cement his finishing position? Or related to the collision itself?

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Apparantly you have to be in contact with the bike as you go over the finish line. Hence those that fell off, got up and pushed it over (in previous races) got their place but this poor sod just got a quirky finish photo.

Maverick cracking under pressure and Rossi showing again why he is the best. If he will continue on like this; he will get that title. :aikido::aikido:

imunderandoverit said:

Maverick cracking under pressure and Rossi showing again why he is the best. If he will continue on like this; he will get that title. :aikido::aikido:

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Everyone remain quiet. This one is for Jumkie.

Great race to watch. Seems Zarco was banking on it raining with his initial tire selection. Then bolting to wets as soon as there were drops of rain. I wonder if he had started on mediums whether he would have stayed in the hunt, I think he would have.

Kudos to vr, he has always been good in these conditions. Sucked for Petrux, wtf with Rins?? Full on RD rossi bias bs.

I had to shut it off right after the flag so I didn't have to listen to all the bs. In fact, next race I might just keep the sound off so I don't have to listen to Harris, jeez what a windbag.

imunderandoverit said:

Maverick cracking under pressure and Rossi showing again why he is the best. If he will continue on like this; he will get that title. :aikido::aikido:

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Put Rossi on proper racing circuits and he'll .... himself, that's the difference between him and the likes of Ago and Hailwood, they won everywhere.

AntG said:

Put Rossi on proper racing circuits and he'll .... himself, that's the difference between him and the likes of Ago and Hailwood, they won everywhere.

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So, given Rossi has won at nearly every circuit at one time or another, can we assume there are some alternative circuits where Rossi would be incapable of being competitive? Some circuits he's never been on? Which "proper" circuits pray tell, would they be?

moto vudu said:

Do you recall the last wet race Lorenzo won?

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Google is your friend. Try using it sometime.

Keshav said:

So, given Rossi has won at nearly every circuit at one time or another, can we assume there are some alternative circuits where Rossi would be incapable of being competitive? Some circuits he's never been on? Which "proper" circuits pray tell, would they be?

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Daytona, Isle of Man, Ulster, Macau.

Keshav said:

So, given Rossi has won at nearly every circuit at one time or another, can we assume there are some alternative circuits where Rossi would be incapable of being competitive?

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Chang International Circuit Thailand :ninja:

AntG said:

Daytona, Isle of Man, Ulster, Macau.

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Daytona? A proper track? You must be kidding. I've raced there. It's a .... track. Winning at Daytona is essentially about how much hp you can buy, engine reliability and not falling asleep on the bike.

Isle Of Man and Ulster are not tracks. They're road courses.

That leaves Macau, which is not a track either. It's not a fit place for sane people to race. Like IOM and Ulster - these are places one races either because one is A. Stupid, B. Desperate to be in front of a camera waiting to record one's "heroic death". or C. Possessed of a death wish.

You won't see any racer from the paddock from the last 15 years who would race at any of these places.

Keshav said:

So, given Rossi has won at nearly every circuit at one time or another, can we assume there are some alternative circuits where Rossi would be incapable of being competitive? Some circuits he's never been on? Which "proper" circuits pray tell, would they be?

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Aragon?

NJIRK said:

Aragon?

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To the best of my knowledge, neither Hailwood or Ago have raced there.

Keshav said:

Daytona? A proper track? You must be kidding. I've raced there. It's a .... track. Winning at Daytona is essentially about how much hp you can buy, engine reliability and not falling asleep on the bike.

Isle Of Man and Ulster are not tracks. They're road courses.

That leaves Macau, which is not a track either. It's not a fit place for sane people to race. Like IOM and Ulster - these are places one races either because one is A. Stupid, B. Desperate to be in front of a camera waiting to record one's "heroic death". or C. Possessed of a death wish.

You won't see any racer from the paddock from the last 15 years who would race at any of these places.

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Fogarty raced at these places, he's not in a straight jacket is he?

AntG said:

Fogarty raced at these places, he's not in a straight jacket is he?

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Schwantz raced Macau too.

Saying that, Keshav is correct about the last 15 years - but this owes much more to the stakes being much higher in GP today and I guess contractual reasons. The Japanese factories still obligate their riders to compete in the eight hour though where Suzuka has been deemed too dangerous for the calendar.

I do agree with your sentiment though Ant. Remember Kesh, some of the circuits we visit today were originally road circuits - think last weekend. And this coming weekend - the Sachsenring as it once was.

Also the IOM was originally on the GP calendar remember and there are many riders in addition to Rossi that I couldn't picture contesting at some of the old circuits. Imagine Lorenzo at Imatra???

AntG said:

Fogarty raced at these places, he's not in a straight jacket is he?

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Now you're just being pedantic. Fogarty while much liked as a rider, was not in the same class as any of the top riders of today's paddock. Certainly you don't want to try and put him in the same category as Hailwood. Foggy, is a charismatic side-note in the history of MotoGp who never seriously challenged Rossi or any of his contemporaries, known for lurid rear wheel slides and zero championships in the premiere class. And I said, racers from the last 15 years. Fogarty retired in 2000. Maybe one of the greatest Superbike racers, but hardly someone to be thought in the same category as Hailwood or Ago.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Schwantz raced Macau too.

Saying that, Keshav is correct about the last 15 years - but this owes much more to the stakes being much higher in GP today and I guess contractual reasons. The Japanese factories still obligate their riders to compete in the eight hour though where Suzuka has been deemed too dangerous for the calendar.

I do agree with your sentiment though Ant. Remember Kesh, some of the circuits we visit today were originally road circuits - think last weekend. And this coming weekend - the Sachsenring as it once was.

Also the IOM was originally on the GP calendar remember and there are many riders in addition to Rossi that I couldn't picture contesting at some of the old circuits. Imagine Lorenzo at Imatra???

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Not sure I'd known about Schwantz at Macau. That was of course a different time. Funny thing, talk about insane... I read an interview with him when he was just breaking into AMA Superbike and he talked at length about the logistics and percentages for survival in a head-on with a deer and described in great detail how to prepare one's self (in the 2.5 seconds before impact) to hit the deer. He finished by saying "You'll break both shoulders - but you will live to ride again".

It was a different esthetic altogether then. Somewhere in my basement I still have old VHS tapes from Duke, of the IOM race and the Transatlantic Series. That was great stuff. However, one reason I don't make comparisons between guys who rode in road course races, is that they were essentially time-trials rather than races where contestants battle each other one-on-one in the same turn; a whole other kind of racing.

All due respect for manly racing and courageous derring do, as it were, but Ant seems to conflate macho fearlessness with racing talent, and in interview after interview, riders always iterate that racing is not about having the biggest balls, but rather about cool-headed race-craft; using the brain to strategize and calculate risk variables.

COTA end of discussion until marquez doesnt show up there is nobody competitive.