Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
I think both Rossi and Stoner will suffer under these track conditions...its bound to be a cold track surface temperature and both have commented how they are struggling to get heat into their tires for good race setups.
7 Laps to go and 4 guys dicing for the lead in moto2.....yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa! Go Smithy
Big highside for rider x....damn!
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
down and out
Hey Pendejo, this is the "ASSEN GP: Predict, Practice, Qual". Not the Race thread !!!
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
My bad sorry...maybe edit yours also to remove references....got excited at the race.
I think both Rossi and Stoner will suffer under these track conditions...its bound to be a cold track surface temperature and both have commented how they are struggling to get heat into their tires for good race setups.
7 Laps to go and 4 guys dicing for the lead in moto2.....yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa! Go Smithy
Big highside for ....damn!
Might want to edit the name out of this post too
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Joined Mar 2011
319 Posts | 0+
London
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Jum, I know all your buzzwords by heart already. Why not try analyzing the technical facts, for a change?
Ducati have surely stepped up their game. It's an escalation compared to the previous gradual and cautious approach, but even this is not yet your "moving heaven and earth" . That would be the next step, in case even the GP12 doesn't work: then they would have to ditch the whole frameless design, probably. Now, that would be moving heaven and earth for Ducati, really.
But why Rossi needs a different Ducati than Stoner? Rossi said that the Ducati is exactly the opposite of the Yamaha, and that's the key. In what way are they "opposite"? It means that the Ducati is understeering. An understeering bike tends to lose the front when pushed. Stoner was able to force-steer the Ducati with the help of the rear brake, a special skill nobody else has been able to replicate. Rossi's main problem is that understeering is the opposite of what he always wanted in his bikes, like the Yamaha; he likes them to oversteer and he doesn't mind if then the bike tends to lose the rear, he is good at controlling that. This is his special skill.
With the GP11.1 they have ditched Stoner's bike, but the frameless design is still the same. It still understeers. It has a revised rear suspension though, and a different weight distribution, that should allow more room for adjustments aimed at making the bike, if not oversteering, at least neutral.
That's the issue in my honest view. Now please don't answer with more slogans...
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Jum, I know all your buzzwords by heart already. Why not try analyzing the technical facts, for a change?
Ducati have surely stepped up their game. It's an escalation compared to the previous gradual and cautious approach, but even this is not yet your "moving heaven and earth" . That would be the next step, in case even the GP12 doesn't work: then they would have to ditch the whole frameless design, probably. Now, that would be moving heaven and earth for Ducati, really.
But why Rossi needs a different Ducati than Stoner? Rossi said that the Ducati is exactly the opposite of the Yamaha, and that's the key. In what way are they "opposite"? It means that the Ducati is understeering. An understeering bike tends to lose the front when pushed. Stoner was able to force-steer the Ducati with the help of the rear brake, a special skill nobody else has been able to replicate. Rossi's main problem is that understeering is the opposite of what he always wanted in his bikes, like the Yamaha; he likes them to oversteer and he doesn't mind if then the bike tends to lose the rear, he is good at controlling that. This is his special skill.
With the GP11.1 they have ditched Stoner's bike, but the frameless design is still the same. It still understeers. It has a revised rear suspension though, and a different weight distribution, that should allow more room for adjustments aimed at making the bike, if not oversteering, at least neutral.
That's the issue in my honest view. Now please don't answer with more slogans...
Okay Patron... we'll avoid using slogans when debating with you. Are analogs and euphemisms permitted?
Jum, I know all your buzzwords by heart already. Why not try analyzing the technical facts, for a change?
Ducati have surely stepped up their game. It's an escalation compared to the previous gradual and cautious approach, but even this is not yet your "moving heaven and earth" . That would be the next step, in case even the GP12 doesn't work: then they would have to ditch the whole frameless design, probably. Now, that would be moving heaven and earth for Ducati, really.
But why Rossi needs a different Ducati than Stoner? Rossi said that the Ducati is exactly the opposite of the Yamaha, and that's the key. In what way are they "opposite"? It means that the Ducati is understeering. An understeering bike tends to lose the front when pushed. Stoner was able to force-steer the Ducati with the help of the rear brake, a special skill nobody else has been able to replicate. Rossi's main problem is that understeering is the opposite of what he always wanted in his bikes, like the Yamaha; he likes them to oversteer and he doesn't mind if then the bike tends to lose the rear, he is good at controlling that. This is his special skill.
With the GP11.1 they have ditched Stoner's bike, but the frameless design is still the same. It still understeers. It has a revised rear suspension though, and a different weight distribution, that should allow more room for adjustments aimed at making the bike, if not oversteering, at least neutral.
That's the issue in my honest view. Now please don't answer with more slogans...
I agree and said the riding style required to get anything out of the GP 10 and hence similarly the GP 11 is the polar opposite of rossi's on the race thread without having read this post of yours.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Bravo. I was able to put all the pieces of the puzzle together only recently. Now for the ultimate mistery: why did the Ducati become such a ..... when passing from 990 to 800? As it seems it wasn't before, according to Capi and also Bayliss. The basic design didn't change.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
according to preziosi the approach for the 07 bikes engine was maximum top end power at all cost and from what i remember the ducati hasn't been one of the more tame bikes in the previous 990 days either,even with the bridgestones
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I'm not nearly the gearhead that you and Lex are, so pardon me if I sound naive here, but could it be
the extra CCs were flexing the chassis more and that reduced CCs resulted in a stiffer feel overall?
Jum, I know all your buzzwords by heart already. Why not try analyzing the technical facts, for a change?
Ducati have surely stepped up their game. It's an escalation compared to the previous gradual and cautious approach, but even this is not yet your "moving heaven and earth" . That would be the next step, in case even the GP12 doesn't work: then they would have to ditch the whole frameless design, probably. Now, that would be moving heaven and earth for Ducati, really.
But why Rossi needs a different Ducati than Stoner? Rossi said that the Ducati is exactly the opposite of the Yamaha, and that's the key. In what way are they "opposite"? It means that the Ducati is understeering. An understeering bike tends to lose the front when pushed. Stoner was able to force-steer the Ducati with the help of the rear brake, a special skill nobody else has been able to replicate. Rossi's main problem is that understeering is the opposite of what he always wanted in his bikes, like the Yamaha; he likes them to oversteer and he doesn't mind if then the bike tends to lose the rear, he is good at controlling that. This is his special skill.
With the GP11.1 they have ditched Stoner's bike, but the frameless design is still the same. It still understeers. It has a revised rear suspension though, and a different weight distribution, that should allow more room for adjustments aimed at making the bike, if not oversteering, at least neutral.
That's the issue in my honest view. Now please don't answer with more slogans...
I know jumkie is a fan of his buzzwords but you are being a bit unreasonable. 'moving heaven and earth' is just a figure of speach to express the massive efforts Ducati are willing to go to for Rossi's benefit. You have attached this figure of speach or perceived effort level to one particular technical aspect of Ducati's motogp effort, but that is an unreasonably rigid and focussed reaction to what is ultimately a descriptive phrase. You seem to be overlooking the context and missing the big picture, zoom out a bit and see that Ducati have gone way above and beyond anything they have been prepared to do in their motogp history and miles ahead of the lengths of any other factory. You may not necessarily agree that these changes are connected to Rossi's arrival and you may not particularly like Jumkie's chosen phrase, but to deny the point he is clearly trying to make is just naive, especially if it's on the basis that they haven't gone to a conventional drame design. You are knowledgable enough to know that doing that would only put them further behind.
Last year i highly doubt you would have agreed with the statement: Honda clearly aren't bothered about winning an 800cc title because they haven't rolled out a V5 to replace their 4 cylinder effort. But this is of similar magnitude to your claim, just applied in reverse to another team/rider combination.
