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Again its an idiotic question as Stoner is the greatest of all time.
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Again its an idiotic question as Stoner is the greatest of all time.
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Oh ....... come on already will you.
Agostini is widely considered to be the greatest GP rider of all time.*
* = He was set up as the GOAT because of wins and titles, and in Rossi's chase to break those records, it took on an even greater meaning. Of course this is all made possible by biased media who spun the narrative that wins and titles is the only determining factor of greatness or lack thereof.
Most would tell you King Kenny was a far greater rider with context, and his contributions to the sport far outweigh anything Agostini did.
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Yes, it depends on who you ask. It's not really possible for analyse the context without bias. Some may choose a rider that shares their nationality or he's simply the rider they saw and followed first. Everyone has their opinion, but the general consensus will usually bring up the names Hailwood, Roberts, Agostini, and Rossi.
Stoner will not be remembered as the greatest rider of all time by anyone except his most dedicated fanboys. Perhaps the greatest Ducati GP rider there will ever be, but not greatest rider ever.
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For me to be fair race direction should not have red flagged. But they only did cos a certain person was going backwards.
Miller was brilliant, Marquez was too. Redding could have won it.
Lorenzo was ....,
but still better than the supposed goat, who was in his natural territory in mud and grass. What a ..., wipe your eyes mate your ambition out weighed your talent....again
Miller was brilliant, Marquez was too. Redding could have won it.
Lorenzo was ....,
but still better than the supposed goat, who was in his natural territory in mud and grass. What a ..., wipe your eyes mate your ambition out weighed your talent....again
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Lorenzo gave his thoughts on the race
Jorge Lorenzo pondered retiring from the first race in the Dutch TT at Assen after struggling in 19th position in the rain.
The Movistar Yamaha rider felt he had no front grip under braking and said he was constantly receiving warning signs from his M1 that he was on the verge of crashing.
Lorenzo, though, felt slightly more comfortable with the softer rear tyre fitted in Race 2 and with less surface water on the track he rallied to score six championship points in 10th place.
“I gained because the others crashed, not because I was overtaking. But I was not competitive. It was very difficult to be competitive in the first race because I was probably slower than ever, especially when all the big water came,” he said.
“I was slower and slower, I wasn't safe and I didn't see anything. For not crashing I had to slow down. I was very far even to the next rider. I was going to enter the pits because I was 19th and I wouldn't get any points. I was taking risks. I even thought to stop in the pits but luckily I didn't. I could restart the race,” Lorenzo added.
“In the second race with the soft rear tyre and less water on the track I was better, but still I was one of the slowest riders. [Maverick] Viñales was there and [Eugene] Laverty too. But the only thing I could do was try not to crash and finish the race in tenth place – that's it.
“It looks like with this front tyre that's never been used. We made 30 laps and the tyre looks new. I suffer more than the other riders. The other riders, when they don't have front grip, suffer less.”
Lorenzo said he felt he was pushing himself during the race but he was unable to be competitive nonetheless.
“It's not that I was just going quiet. I was pushing in braking, pushing in acceleration and pushing in the middle of the corner. But the bike was giving me warnings in all the areas,” he said. “If you are slow and getting all the warnings then you can crash. Even if I was slow I wasn't safe and I think it's maybe the front.
“When I feel the front doesn't have grip under braking, with the style I have and the position of my body on the bike I suffer more than the other riders. I am not able to suddenly change my riding, especially to gain the time on braking in the entry of the corner.
“Normally I sacrifice the other corner to have corner speed but if you don't have corner speed in the middle of the corner you do not gain. And you also lose on braking. That's the only way,” he added.
“When I have front feeling, like Motegi, in the rain I've been able to be the fastest one. But when I don't have it I can be the last one. I suffered more than the others and that's what happened today.”
The reigning world champion is 24 points behind Marc Marquez after the first eight races but is taking the positives away from Assen, pointing out that title rival Valentino Rossi endured an even worse weekend.
“For me it can be much worse. Being the fastest one, like Rossi was, and crash and have zero points. I was the slowest one but at least I have six points now,” he said.
“That's more than Rossi in third and I could minimise a little bit, even if Marc finished second, to the leader. Before Le Mans I have 20 points of disadvantage. Now I have 24. The last two races were very bad. In Montmeló I lost nine or ten points because I'd have finished sixth or seventh. Here I at least gained six points, which could be important for the championship.
“In 2013 for example I lost the championship by four points. You have to think positively and let's see if in the future it rains, with a softer front tyre I can feel better,” said Lorenzo. “If not it's not this simple to radically change my riding style.”
The Mallorcan admitted the 250th MotoGP race could have been his worst ever in the premier class if the original race had not been stopped.
“If they didn't cancel the race it could have been my worse race. This one and the one in 2014 is quite similar to be honest. Two very bad races. I don't know which is the worst one,” said Lorenzo, who agrees with the view that Marquez is now prepared to accept second place when a victory is beyond him.
“On Marquez, this is the fourth championship year and he has more experience than before. Probably he's been lucky to crash a lot of times on the track but not in the race. Yeah, he looks more conservative when he can't win. For some reasons, the track was complicated and he stay on the bike.
“He has a lot of merit. For example he had a big moment yesterday. Had he crashed he could have injured himself very badly. You never know if you crash you can injure yourself in a big moment,” e added.
“We cannot say he won't crash and he cannot make mistakes. You're always at the limit. Everyone can make mistakes and get zero points like Rossi did today.”
Read more at MotoGP News - MotoGP Assen: Lorenzo: I felt like quitting
Jorge Lorenzo pondered retiring from the first race in the Dutch TT at Assen after struggling in 19th position in the rain.
The Movistar Yamaha rider felt he had no front grip under braking and said he was constantly receiving warning signs from his M1 that he was on the verge of crashing.
Lorenzo, though, felt slightly more comfortable with the softer rear tyre fitted in Race 2 and with less surface water on the track he rallied to score six championship points in 10th place.
“I gained because the others crashed, not because I was overtaking. But I was not competitive. It was very difficult to be competitive in the first race because I was probably slower than ever, especially when all the big water came,” he said.
“I was slower and slower, I wasn't safe and I didn't see anything. For not crashing I had to slow down. I was very far even to the next rider. I was going to enter the pits because I was 19th and I wouldn't get any points. I was taking risks. I even thought to stop in the pits but luckily I didn't. I could restart the race,” Lorenzo added.
“In the second race with the soft rear tyre and less water on the track I was better, but still I was one of the slowest riders. [Maverick] Viñales was there and [Eugene] Laverty too. But the only thing I could do was try not to crash and finish the race in tenth place – that's it.
“It looks like with this front tyre that's never been used. We made 30 laps and the tyre looks new. I suffer more than the other riders. The other riders, when they don't have front grip, suffer less.”
Lorenzo said he felt he was pushing himself during the race but he was unable to be competitive nonetheless.
“It's not that I was just going quiet. I was pushing in braking, pushing in acceleration and pushing in the middle of the corner. But the bike was giving me warnings in all the areas,” he said. “If you are slow and getting all the warnings then you can crash. Even if I was slow I wasn't safe and I think it's maybe the front.
“When I feel the front doesn't have grip under braking, with the style I have and the position of my body on the bike I suffer more than the other riders. I am not able to suddenly change my riding, especially to gain the time on braking in the entry of the corner.
“Normally I sacrifice the other corner to have corner speed but if you don't have corner speed in the middle of the corner you do not gain. And you also lose on braking. That's the only way,” he added.
“When I have front feeling, like Motegi, in the rain I've been able to be the fastest one. But when I don't have it I can be the last one. I suffered more than the others and that's what happened today.”
The reigning world champion is 24 points behind Marc Marquez after the first eight races but is taking the positives away from Assen, pointing out that title rival Valentino Rossi endured an even worse weekend.
“For me it can be much worse. Being the fastest one, like Rossi was, and crash and have zero points. I was the slowest one but at least I have six points now,” he said.
“That's more than Rossi in third and I could minimise a little bit, even if Marc finished second, to the leader. Before Le Mans I have 20 points of disadvantage. Now I have 24. The last two races were very bad. In Montmeló I lost nine or ten points because I'd have finished sixth or seventh. Here I at least gained six points, which could be important for the championship.
“In 2013 for example I lost the championship by four points. You have to think positively and let's see if in the future it rains, with a softer front tyre I can feel better,” said Lorenzo. “If not it's not this simple to radically change my riding style.”
The Mallorcan admitted the 250th MotoGP race could have been his worst ever in the premier class if the original race had not been stopped.
“If they didn't cancel the race it could have been my worse race. This one and the one in 2014 is quite similar to be honest. Two very bad races. I don't know which is the worst one,” said Lorenzo, who agrees with the view that Marquez is now prepared to accept second place when a victory is beyond him.
“On Marquez, this is the fourth championship year and he has more experience than before. Probably he's been lucky to crash a lot of times on the track but not in the race. Yeah, he looks more conservative when he can't win. For some reasons, the track was complicated and he stay on the bike.
“He has a lot of merit. For example he had a big moment yesterday. Had he crashed he could have injured himself very badly. You never know if you crash you can injure yourself in a big moment,” e added.
“We cannot say he won't crash and he cannot make mistakes. You're always at the limit. Everyone can make mistakes and get zero points like Rossi did today.”
Read more at MotoGP News - MotoGP Assen: Lorenzo: I felt like quitting
Arrabbiata1
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Not true. That's the purpose of assessing the context. However, I concede that many will selectively examine this for the purposes of confirmation bias.
Disagree again...the general consensus says Rossi, because the others simply don't exist. This is precisely why this sport is so ...... and as a true scholar of motor cycle racing, I honestly don't believe that is what Valentino truly wanted. Much better to be legitimately compared against the greats instead of having them dismissed by the ignorant.
Actually, when rationally appraised, the names Hailwood, Agostini, Spencer, Roberts and Rossi will usually be mentioned first, in addition to Lawson, Doohan, Rainey, Stoner, Surtees and Duke.
As I've said before, legitimate comparison is relative but nigh on impossible across so many different eras. Mere trophy totting is both superficial and spurious.
Before the red flag, which did not seem needed. I actually thought it was a good chance for an all Ducati podium or even top 4.
That would have been great.
So happy for. Miller, maybe he won't go out and try to get so crossed up on the mx bike as much.
I like mm's quote "this is the mentality that the team repeated to me about forty times and it is exactl what I did"
That would have been great.
So happy for. Miller, maybe he won't go out and try to get so crossed up on the mx bike as much.
I like mm's quote "this is the mentality that the team repeated to me about forty times and it is exactl what I did"
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Ironically, the term Jet Ski indicates a Personal Water Craft (PWC) made by Kawasaki. They own the name. So unless Ducati recently bought KHI, that would be impossible
Arrabbiata1
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Back to today - despite his spill, great to see Crutchlow straight over to congratulate Miller on his win and accomplishing what in five and a half seasons, three manufacturers and a factory ride, he has been unable to do. Jack stayed with Cal and Lucy on the island last week and they are of course close friends. I couldn't envisage Crutch being so forthcoming had it have been Brad or Scotty.
Arrabbiata1
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???? Are you kidding? There was several inches of standing water in addition to which, the riders couldn't even see the curbs properly. Scott, who in the unlikely event of remaining upright, may have been on for the win, said afterwards that he took a huge risk. I believe his weight may have aided traction slightly but it was still horrifically spinning up on the throttle. I didn't hear one rider that after the stoppage thought it was safe to continue.
Haven't seen the race ............... both to cheap to pay a subscription (
) and something called sleep being needed else I do not get paid at work but (and this is IMO only), if the conditions are slowing VR in the wet, then the conditions are bad and often RD will look at someone like VR for an indication of whether the conditions are safe/unsafe to continue.Conspiracies aside, I fully suspect that this is what was done and it has nought to do with VR being past by others in terms of race position (but have not seen footage)
Mind you, it coudl also have been done to stop him towing people around again
He is the only rider in the field to have won 10 races in a row.
Argumentum ad hominem by dint of cod psychology is mostly all you have.
Fair enough, good call. I forgot, it really did bucket down during the transition from red flag to restart.
Just seemed to be some gestures of frustration from some riders as the race was flagged.
Quite enjoyed seeing the bikes spinning up, fighting for grip down the straights dirt track style
Such a brave keyboard warrior. .... off.
This guy after his crash here in 2012 when he broke his clavicle rode competitively in the race the same week-end after having his clavicle plated, an unprecedented feat of toughness and almost inconceivable medically. He also scored more points in this race than your boy.
Probably better than any of the current riders in the rain however.
So you are certain about this but scoff at those who consider MM's 42 point lead over Rossi to be possibly decisive, even though the last time MM got in the groove/on a roll he had a 14 win season including 10 in a row?
There is such a thing as 'wanting it to much' if that 'thing' starts to consume your every focus and decision on and around the track.
Yes, to have focus is brilliant, to have desire is awesome and to have teh skill to put these in place is a strong position, but if one is so consumed about getting that 10th that he may not be able to think rationally at times of challenge (ie. who is coming past etc), then that is not good and likely to inhibit the end result to which the rider is so focused.
IMO only, but VR is ridiculously focused on getting #10 (I reckon he has the trademark already under lock and key) and we saw this all consuming focus in late 2015 and maybe, just maybe whilst it is slightly more relaxed today it is still all present.
It is a black flag if it is not switched on at the start of the race
They could well have forgotten to switch it on - has been done before in car and bike racing and is easy to do with the clusterfuck that often occurs on a grid
Video will answer it.
If on, no penalty but if it was never on, then RD failed.
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Marquez won 10 in a row before he assisted with the backwards development of the RCV and before Yamaha improved.
Yes, I do believe Marc would have pushed Stoner out of the sport.
I don't find schizophrenia, of which paranoia is also a leading feature, to be a joking matter. I was objecting to you diagnosing schizophrenia by internet, which is basically argumentum ad hominem and ill informed at that, and about all many of your ilk have in the way of arguments.
If you want to talk delusions btw, no other rider on the grid, and none of your opponents on here, have ever accused another rider of tanking a race that he actually won.
