Aragon - The Race Thread - Spoilers

[Goatboy]

The usual performance from Wee man, like a rat out of an aqueduct. I'm not so sure Lorenzo will be able to take it that easy at Motegi if Stoner is back.



Nasty one for Nicky, initially I wasn't sure he had done the right thing in not laying it down. After reading his explanation though I think he probably did, & no harm done.

 

[Ngads]

boring race to be honest...until the end with cal and dovi.



as for nicky's crash, i really think its ridiculous that these riders have to worry about hitting walls, where the .... was the air fence? Could have been way worse thank god it wasnt.

 

[skaface]

closest top 10 finishers in both Moto2 and Moto3 races.



best ever results for Tech3, apart from the two aliens disappearing, best round of the year.



Shame Stacey is back in Japan because I would love to see Rea given another try, he showed his potential after yet another curtailed weekend. Must be first reserve for Honda and satellite rider minimum in 2014. Cmon Ezpeleta, pull some of those strings you're known for doing!

 

[Keshav]

For gods sake can that wee greetin faced .... get back on a bike? There's no banter on here coz all the Stoner fans are at home knitting and crying.



Holy ...., got the shivers when Nicky crashed, not good, thank god he's ok. Thought Rossi did well coming back through, didn't get caught up in any ..... on his way back. Not much else to say, Cal and Dovi, it's personal! Jorge and Dani, once Dani hit the front it was game over, not exactly rivetting. Spies, ...... Forst you have to beat your team mate, and for gods sake, don't get beaten by the satellite Yamahas.



Moto2 was awesome though!

There's no banter because it was a boring ....... race. I'd have taken more interest if Rossi hadn't screwed up.

I was really interested to see if he could back up what he did at the last race. Also to see if Nicky would do well

with the improvements. Once it was clear that Pedrosa was gone gone gone like the cool breeze and we weren't

to be treated by miracles from Rossi or Hayden it was for me, a snorefest. Plus Spies' humiliating lack of results as he turns into new the Hopkins is really depressing.

 

[frizzle]

Wasn't a lot to chat about really. Rossi was out of it in the first couple of laps.

Nicky was gone a couple of laps later. Thank god he is okay. Looked nasty.

Once Pedro had got by Lorenzo he was gone. Bradl dropped his bike as well.

The Spies, Crutchlow & Dovi battle was the only one on track. Great ride from Pedro though.

 

[BBSB]

Well, I'm not tottaly happy with Rea's result today. I was expecting him to beat Bautista today but instead of focusing on riding he starts "playing" with the settings' buttons on his new toy and let him escape. WTF Johny!!

Well, at least you can go home having beat Rossi on your second race as a replacement rider

. All in all, a credible effort from a very promising rider.



Dani did what he had to do. Another peerless performance. It's a shame about Misano because doesn't matter if he wins them all now, Lorenzo has it in the bag easily. Yet another 2nd. He's yet to finnish lower than 2nd all year! Even when he has big "moments" he manages to stay up right, it's the second race in a row that he saves a crash and I remember he had more this year.

The only thing Dani can do now is make a statement for next year by beating JL at every remaining race and finish this season on a high.



His best chance of the title was always going to be 2013 anyway with Stoner gone and Marquez having his learning year and the Honda (hopefully) not suffering from this years problems.

 

[BBSB]

closest top 10 finishers in both Moto2 and Moto3 races.



best ever results for Tech3, apart from the two aliens disappearing, best round of the year.



Shame Stacey is back in Japan because I would love to see Rea given another try, he showed his potential after yet another curtailed weekend. Must be first reserve for Honda and satellite rider minimum in 2014. Cmon Ezpeleta, pull some of those strings you're known for doing!

I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand I wanted to see Rea having another go to give a better picture of his potential as I think the loss of practice days on both Misano and Aragon really hindered his progress. On the other hand I want Casey back soon to battle Lorenzo eventhough it won't make a difference for Dani's title hopes.

 

[BBSB]

the big question mark for me is how fast stoner will be back up to speed,

I expect him to be on the podium easily at Motegi (if he returns at Motegi). Probably won't be able to beat JL or DP though. It's easier to ride with an ankle/leg injury than for example a hand or collarbone one. I think.

 

[Zootalaws]

Even in 'boring' races I usually find something to be interested in, but honestly I found this race to be a drag... I am sure Lorenzo could have found it in him to challenge for the win, but he's racing to win the championship and knows he has it in the bag as long as he stays on and in the top 3... it will be the same for the rest of the season, I suspect.



Cal and Dovi made a go of it and Bradl was looking promising till he binned it.



I was thinking of hitting the Malaysian GP as I will be meandering back from NZ/Oz to the UK around then, but really don't know if I can be arsed... cheap tickets, but I don't think there is going to be much of a fight on the track.

 

[povol]

Lorenzo ran a smart race. He about tossed it tryin to stay with Pedro and settled. The Honda is the superior machine. Yamaha has won1 race in 2 months, and that was somewhat gifted. Consistency on his part and some ...... luck by the main competition will win Lorenzo the title.

 

[michaelm]

Lorenzo ran a smart race. He about tossed it tryin to stay with Pedro and settled. The Honda is the superior machine. Yamaha has won1 race in 2 months, and that was somewhat gifted. Consistency on his part and some ...... luck by the main competition will win Lorenzo the title.

Pedrosa's and jorge's luck pretty well cancel out, they have both been taken out and lost a potential 25 points; not withstanding this if pedrosa even finishes second in the previous race it is a 13 point championship now. Even if he didn't make any contribution to the incident in which he was taken out, the reasons why he was in a position to get taken out involved bungling by his team though, which doesn't qualify as bad luck imo, although the circumstances leading up to the bungling do.



The elephant in the room is whether jorge runs out of engines. The loss of one of the engines certainly involved bad luck, but if the honda engines are more durable and they have elected to have cut-outs when their bikes go down to preserve the engines that isn't luck either given the current engine rule, whether or not that rule is stupid (I don't go for "or not" myself btw).

 

[bluegreen]

I think they're both lucky Casey is out.

 

[michaelm]

I think they're both lucky Casey is out.

Never want to see any rider injured, but casey shouldn't have got injured if he wanted to win the championship, same as 1992 and 1993 for mick doohan; as casey himself said "that's racing". I hope the long term consequences of stoner's injury are less severe than they were for doohan.



Maybe he would have had the crash anyway, but going for the win rather than settling for second and the championship lead at sachsenring and the possible pressure resulting from that may have been very costly, since the bike looks really good now and looks to have the advantage on the yamaha now as zootalaws says; no talk of chatter recently. Again, he decided to go for the last lap pass, not pedrosa or lorenzo.

 

[Mick D]

I think they're both lucky Casey is out.

I read on Krop's site that Honda/Yam base engine durability on FIVE engines per rider - they assume that one will be dropped, exploded or otherwise bitched.

 

[Lyria]

Never want to see any rider injured, but casey shouldn't have got injured if he wanted to win the championship, same as 1992 and 1993 for mick doohan; as casey himself said "that's racing". I hope the long term consequences of stoner's injury are less severe than they were for doohan.



Maybe he would have had the crash anyway, but going for the win rather than settling for second and the championship lead at sachsenring and the possible pressure resulting from that may have been very costly, since the bike looks really good now and looks to have the advantage on the yamaha now as zootalaws says; no talk of chatter recently. Again, he decided to go for the last lap pass, not pedrosa or lorenzo.

Well it's easy as a viewer to say he should have gone for the points and not the win, we can say that without being there on that bike feeling what he's feeling at that moment I guess. Of course when you go for those moves you don't expect the worst to happen, you wouldn't do it if you did would you? That's racing though, they have to make a split second decision and sometimes they're okay, other times it all goes wrong, but that is just racing isn't it?



No one wants to see a rider injured of course, if anyone watches the sport for that then they really need to get a life! It is the knowing it could all go bits up and watching them manage to pull the move off anyway, that's what's thrilling to me.

 

[michaelm]

Well it's easy as a viewer to say he should have gone for the points and not the win, we can say that without being there on that bike feeling what he's feeling at that moment I guess. Of course when you go for those moves you don't expect the worst to happen, you wouldn't do it if you did would you? That's racing though, they have to make a split second decision and sometimes they're okay, other times it all goes wrong, but that is just racing isn't it?



No one wants to see a rider injured of course, if anyone watches the sport for that then they really need to get a life! It is the knowing it could all go bits up and watching them manage to pull the move off anyway, that's what's thrilling to me.

I agree, and actually defended him for going for the win at the time, something for which great riders like doohan and rossi were renowned.



My main point is that whoever wins the championship out of lorenzo and pedrosa, likely to be somebody who has managed to stay on their bike for most of the season, deserves full credit, with no casey stoner injured asterixes, the same as applied for rainey's 1992 championship and schwantz's 1993 championship. I have spent enough time getting riled myself by stoner's championships being devalued due to talk of bike advantages or whatever.

 

[povol]

Pedrosa's and jorge's luck pretty well cancel out, they have both been taken out and lost a potential 25 points; not withstanding this if pedrosa even finishes second in the previous race it is a 13 point championship now. Even if he didn't make any contribution to the incident in which he was taken out, the reasons why he was in a position to get taken out involved bungling by his team though, which doesn't qualify as bad luck imo, although the circumstances leading up to the bungling do.



The elephant in the room is whether jorge runs out of engines. The loss of one of the engines certainly involved bad luck, but if the honda engines are more durable and they have elected to have cut-outs when their bikes go down to preserve the engines that isn't luck either given the current engine rule, whether or not that rule is stupid (I don't go for "or not" myself btw).

Having a caliper lock up is an unforeseen piece of bad luck. I doubt any crew member did anything wrong, it just happened. One of lifes little mysteries.By no means am i suggesting that Lorenzo will not deserve his 2nd title, or will i be placing any asterisks beside it. If anything i was saying Lorenzo will win a title on an inferior machine which is a complement. At the same time, im pointing out that next years title is not etched in stone for Yamaha as some have suggested since Stoner decided to retire.

 

[michaelm]

Having a caliper lock up is an unforeseen piece of bad luck. I doubt any crew member did anything wrong, it just happened. One of lifes little mysteries.By no means am i suggesting that Lorenzo will not deserve his 2nd title, or will i be placing any asterisks beside it. If anything i was saying Lorenzo will win a title on an inferior machine which is a complement. At the same time, im pointing out that next years title is not etched in stone for Yamaha as some have suggested since Stoner decided to retire.

Not arguing with you (we nearly always agree about motogp) but rather a post by someone else contending that pedrosa and lorenzo were lucky stoner got injured. I would love mick doohan to have 6 or 7 world championships and was gutted when he had his terrible accident and injury, but he did crash and he hasn't got more than 5. The notoriously whinging stoner hasn't said anything other than "that's racing" as far as I know either.



I actually didn't see the pedrosa incident, I get bored by the formation and warm up lap and was switching channels and contrived to miss the first lap, and hence was going by reports.

 

[barbedwirebiker]

Theoretically if Pedrosa finishes first at the last four races and stoner can keep Jorge back in third, Pedrosa will catch 9 points per race x 4 = 36 points. 3 point win.



It's a HUGE maybe.

 

[Geonerd]

Can Pedrosa really sweep the last 4 race? I dunnow...



At any rate, I think he'll need more help than CS finishing second. He still 'needs' Lorenzo to suffer another dose of bad luck or an engine issue.



Honda may be able and willing to fully unleash their extra engine at PI and Sepang. (Will Stoner be willing to forgo one last PI win?)

Valencia and the chickenshit Motegi are probably a push (?).



I'll look at some on-board video from Lorenzo's bike, measure RPMs, and try to determine if/how much Yamaha has already de-tuned the engine. This might offer some insight into the seriousness of their situation.