Apology to Nicky

Pete Benson seems pretty straight up. He has been helping Nicky for ages and he doesn't talk ........ when they interview him. He even said it like it was back in Portugal 06.

It seems that there is a bit of discrepancies with some of the reports. So I'll wait to comment on this situation later. For now, let it suffice to say there are two problems: one, Nicky hasn't got on well with the switch to 800s. Two, there is a reason for that: A. He hasn't adapted & B. Honda hasn't provided what he needs to be successful.

I wrote some comments on the post race thread here. LINK

I'll post in this thread as more information is made public (if at all).


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 11 2008, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is evidence that Honda are taking some firm direction, positive steps for HRC
Were you every a Hayden fan? Or did I imagine it from your avatar?

I am nt sure if you guys followed the link in my previous post, but it clearly indiactes that Nicky CHOSE to the ride the 2007 bike at Qatar.

Here it is again: Hayden:We got beat bad

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa later opted for the '08, while Nicky went with the '07 - which he qualified sixth on the grid, two places ahead of Pedrosa.
...

Hayden will be back on the '08 RCV, albeit still powered by last year's spring-valve engine, for round two of the 2008 world championship.

"Nicky tried hard and of course he will do better than today. He raced with the 07 RC212V because he had a better feeling with this machine but at Jerez he will test the 08 bike and some new parts," said Repsol Honda team manager Kazuhiko Yamano.

Which is why I suspect his team is not as good at setting up the bike as Pedrosa's. Led to Nicky giving up on the 2008 bike and chosing to ride the 2007 model.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 11 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am nt sure if you guys followed the link in my previous post, but it clearly indiactes that Nicky CHOSE to the ride the 2007 bike at Qatar.

Here it is again: Hayden:We got beat bad



Which is why I suspect his team is not as good at setting up the bike as Pedrosa's. Led to Nicky giving up on the 2008 bike and chosing to ride the 2007 model.
Yes, we got it the first time. Now did you "follow the link" to the first post of this thread? It’s clearly a discrepancy between the two articles. Here it is again. Using your words, "it clearly indicates that Nicky was "left" with the older bike as the "option" available to him. Notice it also says, Pedrosa had the "only" latest version "available". So this leads the reader to believe that it was more like an ultimatum rather than a true choice. Hence, the reason this thread was created by Lex. Do you understand now, or do you plan to post it a third time?


It case you missed it, this is what Autosport.com said:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Autosport.com understands that only Dani Pedrosa had the latest version of the machine available to ride during the Qatar Grand Prix last weekend.

That left Hayden with older bike as an option, together with a 2007 machine that was freighted into Qatar at the last minute on Thursday

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 11 2008, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So I have been slagging Nicky off for being a bone head and riding the 2007 spec instead of the 2008 spec.

Then i read this : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65626

Apparently Hayden didn't have access to the bike.

So if you have any powers of deduction you can reason that:
1. Honda brought 4 bikes; 2 07s and 2 08s for each rider
2. Pedrosa binned is 08 when he went into the back of Rossi
3. Pedrosa was therefore riding Nicky's 2008
4. If Hayden didn't have access to the bike, it was confiscated from his crew by HRC

He still deserves hell for getting owned by Dovi and beaten by RDP but what in God's name is HRC pulling. How could anyone ride for that team. How can they be so vain as to claim they run a dual #1 rider system

I can't stand big red or their ticker-tape sponsors.

So now that we've all slagged him off for being unable to ride the bike he developed, lets all eat our words together. Yeah right you arrogant pricks won't eat anything.

Agreed....Pedrosa rules the order of things at HRC Repsol...and Nicky is on the 'Biaggi Program'....


Nick's situation is only going to get worse and worse.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 12 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Were you every a Hayden fan? Or did I imagine it from your avatar?

I remain a Hayden fan but i'm not going to let my interest in him have any significant affect on my judgement of situations involving him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 11 2008, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Nothing says trailblazing like letting one rider do all the development, then not letting him ride the bike.

Bravo. Reason beyond reproach.

I am sure Honda will develop a second bike for Nicky with the Pneumaitc engine.
Afterall Nicky was a champion and HRC always respects their champions....

Jumkie,

Yes, I plan to post a 3rd time...

The link to autosport article is dead, so I will go with your quotes..

There is a big difference between a statement like:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Autosport.com understands that only Dani Pedrosa had the latest version of the machine available to ride during the Qatar Grand Prix last weekend.


and:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"Nicky tried hard and of course he will do better than today. He raced with the 07 RC212V because he had a better feeling with this machine but at Jerez he will test the 08 bike and some new parts," said Repsol Honda team manager Kazuhiko Yamano

The difference is that the second rpeport provides a quote from the HRC manager.. The reporting media exposes itself to libel if they misquote someone. Which leads me to believe that the article I provided, with the quote, is closer to the truth than another article that claims to "understand" that Nicky got gypped -- "understands" usually means that Autosport talked to someone who may have talked to someone who claims to know what is going on in HRC.

Of course, now you can come back saying that the HRC manager lied to the Reporter and Nicky was not given a choice. To which I will have no response.

PS: I worked with the Japanese and they typically will, to a fault, go to great extent to speak the truth -- atleast at the workplace.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 12 2008, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course, now you can come back saying that the HRC manager lied to the Reporter and Nicky was not given a choice. To which I will have no response.

PS: I worked with the Japanese and they typically will, to a fault, go to great extent to speak the truth -- atleast at the workplace.

They don't have to lie:

"Hey Nicky how is it going right now?"

"Well I'm getting better feedback from the 2007........"

"Okay good, because we're taking your 2008 and giving it to Dani. You don't really need it anyway. We changed the frame. Your new frame won't be ready until Jerez. Don't say anything stupid in the press conference. Meet with the PR people before the interviews. K thanks"

Get with it crvlvr. The marketers and pr people have a huge say in the way the team runs? We already know the marketers expect the designers to change the way the bike looks every season! The PR people expect riders from big markets so they can attract sponsors and fans.

In the words of Pepsi Max: Wake up, people!

Racing is only racing for 45 minutes on Sunday. The rest of the time, the big bosses and their minions are wrecking up shop trying to turn a buck. That's the crux of the problem--racing is glorified advertising--now more than ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 12 2008, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course, now you can come back saying that the HRC manager lied to the Reporter and Nicky was not given a choice. To which I will have no response.

PS: I worked with the Japanese and they typically will, to a fault, go to great extent to speak the truth -- atleast at the workplace.
Oh really? So we would NOT find an HRC boss/manager somewhere misleading, omitting, and politicking to advance their agenda? Wow, breathtaking. Lets consider, what might be the answer, if you held a microphone to a HRC boss and asked him if Hayden is getting the same #1 rider status as Pedrosa? What might his answer be? (Keep in mind the one sticking point with the contract he signed was to be at least considered "equal" to his teammate. Do you think they would speak the “truth” about what is obvious to the rest of the world?

Nah, man, I think people lie and omit and exaggerate and manipulate, regardless of nationality.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon)<div class='quotemain'>"Okay good, because we're taking your 2008 and giving it to Dani. You don't really need it anyway. We changed the frame. Your new frame won't be ready until Jerez. Don't say anything stupid in the press conference. Meet with the PR people before the interviews. K thanks"

well, it looks like some guys here won't believe anything about Nicky unless he says it himself. Ok, so here are some quotes from Nicky himself..
(posted March 6, 2008) http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sp...ndainfirstrace/
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Recently Nicky Hayden and Dani Pedrosa have been riding using a 2007 spec motor housed in the 2008 chassis, but the disastrous Qatar test saw Honda finally bow to Hayden’s repeated request to roll out last year’s complete machine.
..

“I first asked about switching to the old bike after Phillip Island but they really didn’t want to take that step back.

“At one point at the test we were last and second last and that isn’t good. I guess it stung Honda but give them credit.

“It couldn’t have been easy to explain to the bosses that they wanted to roll out last year’s bike.

Sometimes though you got to go back to move forward,” said the American.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 12 2008, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well, it looks like some guys here won't believe anything about Nicky unless he says it himself. Ok, so here are some quotes from Nicky himself..
Crv, I see you are having a bit of trouble following along. You are not giving anybody here the news. You would have known this had you followed along, I already mentioned as much as you just said above in a link (see post #22 and follow the link to the part I mention about Hayden, ah forget it, I'll just quote myself below) ...Here is me:


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 11 2008, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(He asked to go back to the 07 spec after PI, the race where he showed most promise, that is until the engine took a dump, but Honda were not willing to take that step at the moment so they waited until right before the season opener). Surely the bike he started off on and ended with in 07 were different, right? Well if this last minute debacle is any indication as to the level of factory support behind him, then really, a cast of doubt upon factory itself is certainly in order.

So you see, we already read Hayden’s quote. The point here is how it transpired and the discrepance between the latest reports. (Again, hence, this thread). Now take a moment and read what I said above again, do you see where this is going? Here again is a glimpse at my point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 11 2008, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But lets for a moment say for the sake of NOT sounding like a conspiracy theorist, that the report is ........ and that he really did have “access” to the 08 bike. Fine. Now why would a rider face the prospect of having to “pick” between a 07 spec vs. 08 spec bike? Are they that close in performance that a factory rider must choose between what is deemed the newest generation and a previous generation bike?

So you see where this is going? You keep hammer that he "asked for the 07 bike" and my point is, yeah, and is this a good thing?

Jumkie,

Thanks for the detailed response. But I am still not sold. The questions remains, when and why did Hayden ask for the 07 chassis? Here are the key points.

1. Hayden asked for the 07 bike bfore Pedrosa crashed his 08 bike. (you can look up the news reports. He asked for it prior to March 6 and Pedrosa crashed on 10th or 11th). So the theory that Pedrosa's crash did not leave an 08 bike for Hayden is probably bogus.

2. Clearly, in Hayden's own words, Honda may waited for the last minute to give him WHAT HE WANTED because it was possibly difficult for them to convince their superiors that the 07 bike "felt better", for Hayden, than the 08. Already the 08 engine was not as good as the 07. Now the chassis too? Obviously questions would be asked by the Honda bosses as to what the heck HRC development has been doing during the off season and heads might roll. Hayden could have helped HRC management "save face" by agreeing to ride the 08 chassis.

3. At the end of the day, considering Pedrosa's performance, Hayden might have been better on the 08 chassis. (both Pedrosa and Hayden ran the 07 engine. Pedrosa oin the 08 chassis and Hayden in the 07 chassis)

IMHO, HRC are not idiots. They have the best track record in the history in MotoGP. Yes, they do screw up once in a while and they usually have no problem admitting it. They quickly admitted that the 08 pneumatic valve engine was not ready and put the 07 engines in the 08 chassis.

It is the manufacture's job is to make the best bike with the best specs. It's the rider's job the extract the best perfomance out of it. Obviously, as bikes are improved, they may not "feel" the same to the rider. But, some riders are better at adapting to the new bike than others.