AMA SBK - Round 10 - Barber Motorsports

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Eslick continued being a classless act with his .... eating grin and being disaapointed nobody jumped up at the end to find out more about how Eslick really feels about Herrin. He even acted like a 6th grader when Westby said balls.



He could not stop sucking up to Cardenas though.....Eslick knows Cardenas had him last year and he got him this year.



Westby was very humble and a class act......he should have been the one grinning and not sitting still after riding his balls off, busting up his bike, and staying focused to still get 2nd.



I suppose he figured he wanted to get all the Herrin vs Eslick questions out of the way. But yeah, it was a bit funny to see him ask for more, nonetheless, somebody obliged.



The Cardenas ... kissing was thick. In all of this, I've read around the net allot of Cardenas "had it in the bag" comments but really, that is far from the truth. Factory, you have said Eslick was the recipient of other's misfortunes (apart from bringing up the Buell thing several times to relegate Eslicks title), but you haven't mentioned that up until three laps to go, Eslick was actually poised to win the title (on a 600). It wasn't until Herrin put a move on him on turn one with three laps to go did Cardenas' fortunes change. Eslick then got in a tangle with Herrin for the next two laps, and it wasn't until the last lap that this feud effectively handed Cardenas the title.



About Westby, here is what I have a problem with. For whatever reason AMA has a hard-on to .... over Clint Sellers! Sellers crash sent his bike clear off the track, he got up and moved away further from the impact zone to a safe area. Wesby's crash on the other hand, just a brief moment later ended with his bike on the track and on fire (and no red flag yet shown at that moment). Then the red flag comes out and they deem it was caused by Sellers'? WTF??? They both get a restart, but Wesby is back on front row, Sellers, at the back of the bus mothatfuker. Why?
 
i missed the race but read all about what happened...anybody have a link of the crash?
 
See post number 76.

Dont concentrate just on the crash, watch the whole race to see what Eslick was up to.. If the crash itself was the only incident that day , you could write it off as a racing incident. The wreck itself was just the coup de grâce that you knew was coming.
 
Dont concentrate just on the crash, watch the whole race to see what Eslick was up to.. If the crash itself was the only incident that day , you could write it off as a racing incident. The wreck itself was just the coup de grâce that you knew was coming.



Yup
 
About Westby, here is what I have a problem with. For whatever reason AMA has a hard-on to .... over Clint Sellers! Sellers crash sent his bike clear off the track, he got up and moved away further from the impact zone to a safe area. Wesby's crash on the other hand, just a brief moment later ended with his bike on the track and on fire (and no red flag yet shown at that moment). Then the red flag comes out and they deem it was caused by Sellers'? WTF??? They both get a restart, but Wesby is back on front row, Sellers, at the back of the bus mothatfuker. Why?



Seems like I heard. because he was the reason the red flag came out, he had to restart at the back. Agree that it's ........ because he and his bike were way off the racing line and out of danger.
 
Dont concentrate just on the crash, watch the whole race to see what Eslick was up to.. If the crash itself was the only incident that day , you could write it off as a racing incident. The wreck itself was just the coup de grâce that you knew was coming.



You got a link where I could watch the whole race? I'd like to see it.
 
Looked to me like Eslick had it out for Herrin the whole race. I was really surprised Herrin kept it upright when Eslick parked it right in front of him. Not sure how you explain that move. Herrin was a ....... though. You would think that after the 4th time Eslick dove inside that he would cover that line. Everytime he would take that outside line Eslick would stick it up inside and drive him off track. Russell was going crazy up in the booth haha



All in all it was a great racing weekend.
 
Dont concentrate just on the crash, watch the whole race to see what Eslick was up to.. If the crash itself was the only incident that day , you could write it off as a racing incident. The wreck itself was just the coup de grâce that you knew was coming.

I'd say the most damning point was when he looks back at Herrin to arrive at turn 4 then ran wide. But if you are asking us to look at the race in its entirety, then surely you must also factor in Herrin's stuffing of turn 1 as part of the turn for sequence. Herrin is not a saint upon watching it again.
 
Looked to me like Eslick had it out for Herrin the whole race. I was really surprised Herrin kept it upright when Eslick parked it right in front of him. Not sure how you explain that move.

Here is my explanation. Eslick looks back to see if Herrin intends to lean on him again, as he has the previous lap. But this time Eslicks look back is saying, 'yo, I'm ready for you this time, eat this.'
 
I'd say the most damning point was when he looks back at Herrin to arrive at turn 4 then ran wide. But if you are asking us to look at the race in its entirety, then surely you must also factor in Herrin's stuffing of turn 1 as part of the turn for sequence. Herrin is not a saint upon watching it again.

I personally never saw Josh initiate contact once. From where i was sitting, Josh was racing clean, Danny was racing dirty.
 
+1^^^ jumkie why are you so determined to defend that prong?



B/c Eslick actually didn't do anything wrong when he knocked Herrin down. He was just pulling and outside-inside repass but the track was wet so a love tap sent Herrin to the ground. The real incident was Eslick parking Herrin before the flag.



If people want blood fine, but both of them have got to be dealt a blow. Yamaha did release Herrin into Danny's line in qualifying (no idea whether it was intentional) and Herrin did put Danny wide after Danny sent Herrin into the grass. Intention is impossible to prove and the trash these guys talk when they get off of the bike is only an indication of their ego not anything that actually happened on track. If Danny did it on purpose b/c he called Josh and ....., then Graves certainly released Josh into Danny's line b/c they talked trash at Danny when he was being interviewed.



There are a bunch of complexities to this situation:



1. DMG have let them take one another out all season. It's not just Eslick either. Fong, Westby, and Seller have roughed people up all season.



2. If they suspend or DQ Eslick it's makes Herrin look like the teacher's pet or DMG's favorite b/c no one is allowed to knock Josh down when the championship is on the line.



3. They don't want to detract from the legit champ with a bunch of legalistic BS regarding Eslick and Herrin.



Eslick pulled 1 heinous move. Graves interfered during qualifying. Probation for both and move on.
 
I don't know why you guys continue to defend Eslick. Are you forgetting race 1 where he kept trying to do the same thing but failed because Herrin had traction due to a dry track. He continued in race 2 and finally succeeded. If you were just to watch just the incident you could say it was a racing incident but after reviewing race 1 and 2 it was clear that he was repeatedly trying to punt him.

Jumkie what Eslick did was just as low as what Chad Reed did to Stewart with the execption that Reeds move never affected the outcome of the championship,

You are very vocal in your hatred of Reed for this behavior so how is it that you can defend Eslick for similar behavior that culminated in a worse outcome
 
I personally never saw Josh initiate contact once. From where i was sitting, Josh was racing clean, Danny was racing dirty.

Then you need to watch the race again. Lap 6. Eslick clearly has the inside, and is ahead of Herrin, but regardless, Herrin closes his line and makes contact. That contact is because he refused to concede the line to Eslick. You even hear the commentator say on the replay, "Herrin tried to come in but Eslick was right there." This incident is completely on Herrin. There is no way you can put this on Eslick, as once you got the advantage into the turn, you either concede or suffer the consequence of your own stubbornness. I'd say the reason why Herrin went into the grass was more a function that this happened in the wet.



Would you like to see the exact same situation with a different result? Forward to lap 11. Here you will see Clint Sellers pass Cardenas in the exact corner and almost in the exact way Eslick passes Herrin. But notice the different follow through by Cardenas, he concedes the line, everybody comes out of the corner ok. And don't tell me that Eslick ran wide because you will see Sellers runs the same line out of the turn, which is wide.



Keep in mind we didn't get to see the pass in turn one at the start of this lap. Eslick was leading Herrin at the end of lap 5 then Herrin appears ahead of Eslick out of turn. As somebody said, we didn't get to see all of the passes on eachother, so we can't rule out any "shenanigans".



Nothing happens again until the red flag between Eslick and Herrin.



After the red flag, its basically a 9 lap shoot out. Take a good look at the restart; you will again see the exact same scenario play out in turn 4. But this time its Eslick and Wesby. Eslick puts the exact same move on Wesby as you are claim was dirty by Eslick on Herrin. Look at what Wesby does, he concedes the line. So now you have two other examples on the same turn with riders executing a pass exactly to Eslick on Herrin, but with different outcomes, and the only difference is that Herrin refused to concede the line and closed on Eslick "initiate" contact!



At the end of the first lap after the restart, Eslick puts a pass on Herrin going into the straight, Herrin does not close his line, Eslick does not run him wide, very clean in fact. Now pay close attention to turn for on this lap. What does Eslick do, he again beats Herrin to the turn, but Herrin again stubbornly closes his line and again "initiates" contact! (Dude, I'm watching it on half the screen as I type this. Watch it again; you will see this is exactly what is happening.) So to this point, Herrin has infact has "initiated" contact on the very same turn! Scott Russell says "Herrin has got to know this, he needs to run a little lower on the inside of that corner on the brakes." I'm sure you got it on Tvo, watch it, you'll see I'm telling it like it is buddy.



Now finish this lap, you see with 7 laps to go, Eslick is leading down the straight but Herrin stuffs Eslick on the inside and what do you think happens next? Herrin runs Eslick so wide that he back tire clips the paint (you can't go any more wider than that) and almost has a highside!



Really, after watching this race several times over, I must admit, I've done a reversal as to who I think was actually riding aggressive. Herrin clearly was. And this is from our lazy boy perspective. Imagine how Eslick perceived Herrin's contact(s) and stuffing then running wide? ...., it would make your blood boil too.



So now lets go to the move that we deemed most egregious and openly “dirty”, the now infamous “brake check”. Well was it really. Honestly, as I rewatch it again, I’m stunned at how its clearly Herrin pushing the issue and Eslick taking more of an evasive defensive stance. Watch it again, don’t just comment without looking at the move a few times and slowing it down. Eslick begins to attempt the pass at the exact turn 4 where Herrin has “initiated” contact. Again we see the same scenario play out, watch as Herrin begins to close the line on Eslick, and puts his knee out. At this very point, Eslick sees Herrin out of his peripheral and takes a small look back, watch Herrin continue to close the line. Infact, Herrin does a bobble while closing the line toward Eslick. This bobbling gets Eslicks attention again and takes another look back. Danny looks to be a person who is waiting for Josh to ram him as oppose to brake checking. Eslick is distracted enough with Herrin that he loses slight momentum, but not enough to get a good drive out of the corner and maintain the advantage over Allison who is closing fast also.



On the next lap, with 4 to go, on the very same turn 4 where all the .... is happening, this time Eslick again takes the same line, Herrin again comes along side but then falls in line and no problems.



Speed then goes to a commercial. So we don’t get to see Herrin’s crash live. But in the replay we see what happens. And guess where? Yup, turn 4, where Herrin has been ....... around on Eslick. But this time Herrin in on the inside, Eslick is on the outside going into the turn. Herrin has trouble holding his tight line and leaves a crease. Eslick having a wide entry has the momentum and drive to capitalize on the crease left by Herrin, and this is where the contact its made. Herrin crashes out. Its this incident that hands Cardenas the title because Eslick drive is interrupted and Matin slips through.



So you tell me, we always say we want these dudes to battle for the wins, and especially in this situation, the championship, in retrospect, was Eslicks move all that “dirty”? Don’t answer just from your gut, but do your homework. Watch the race again, lap by lap, incident by incident. When I first saw the race, my first reaction was to say Eslick had ridden too aggressive. But not after watching it.
 
B/c Eslick actually didn't do anything wrong when he knocked Herrin down. He was just pulling and outside-inside repass but the track was wet so a love tap sent Herrin to the ground. The real incident was Eslick parking Herrin before the flag.



If people want blood fine, but both of them have got to be dealt a blow. Yamaha did release Herrin into Danny's line in qualifying (no idea whether it was intentional) and Herrin did put Danny wide after Danny sent Herrin into the grass. Intention is impossible to prove and the trash these guys talk when they get off of the bike is only an indication of their ego not anything that actually happened on track. If Danny did it on purpose b/c he called Josh and ....., then Graves certainly released Josh into Danny's line b/c they talked trash at Danny when he was being interviewed.



There are a bunch of complexities to this situation:



1. DMG have let them take one another out all season. It's not just Eslick either. Fong, Westby, and Seller have roughed people up all season.



2. If they suspend or DQ Eslick it's makes Herrin look like the teacher's pet or DMG's favorite b/c no one is allowed to knock Josh down when the championship is on the line.



3. They don't want to detract from the legit champ with a bunch of legalistic BS regarding Eslick and Herrin.



Eslick pulled 1 heinous move. Graves interfered during qualifying. Probation for both and move on.

And exactly how did he do that, Eslick was on the inside of a left hand turn, if he went wide, it was his own doing, not the guy on the outside who got punted
 
Then you need to watch the race again. Lap 6. Eslick clearly has the inside, and is ahead of Herrin, but regardless, Herrin closes his line and makes contact. That contact is because he refused to concede the line to Eslick. You even hear the commentator say on the replay, "Herrin tried to come in but Eslick was right there." This incident is completely on Herrin. There is no way you can put this on Eslick, as once you got the advantage into the turn, you either concede or suffer the consequence of your own stubbornness. I'd say the reason why Herrin went into the grass was more a function that this happened in the wet.



Would you like to see the exact same situation with a different result? Forward to lap 11. Here you will see Clint Sellers pass Cardenas in the exact corner and almost in the exact way Eslick passes Herrin. But notice the different follow through by Cardenas, he concedes the line, everybody comes out of the corner ok. And don't tell me that Eslick ran wide because you will see Sellers runs the same line out of the turn, which is wide.



Keep in mind we didn't get to see the pass in turn one at the start of this lap. Eslick was leading Herrin at the end of lap 5 then Herrin appears ahead of Eslick out of turn. As somebody said, we didn't get to see all of the passes on eachother, so we can't rule out any "shenanigans".



Nothing happens again until the red flag between Eslick and Herrin.



After the red flag, its basically a 9 lap shoot out. Take a good look at the restart; you will again see the exact same scenario play out in turn 4. But this time its Eslick and Wesby. Eslick puts the exact same move on Wesby as you are claim was dirty by Eslick on Herrin. Look at what Wesby does, he concedes the line. So now you have two other examples on the same turn with riders executing a pass exactly to Eslick on Herrin, but with different outcomes, and the only difference is that Herrin refused to concede the line and closed on Eslick "initiate" contact!



At the end of the first lap after the restart, Eslick puts a pass on Herrin going into the straight, Herrin does not close his line, Eslick does not run him wide, very clean in fact. Now pay close attention to turn for on this lap. What does Eslick do, he again beats Herrin to the turn, but Herrin again stubbornly closes his line and again "initiates" contact! (Dude, I'm watching it on half the screen as I type this. Watch it again; you will see this is exactly what is happening.) So to this point, Herrin has infact has "initiated" contact on the very same turn! Scott Russell says "Herrin has got to know this, he needs to run a little lower on the inside of that corner on the brakes." I'm sure you got it on Tvo, watch it, you'll see I'm telling it like it is buddy.



Now finish this lap, you see with 7 laps to go, Eslick is leading down the straight but Herrin stuffs Eslick on the inside and what do you think happens next? Herrin runs Eslick so wide that he back tire clips the paint (you can't go any more wider than that) and almost has a highside!



Really, after watching this race several times over, I must admit, I've done a reversal as to who I think was actually riding aggressive. Herrin clearly was. And this is from our lazy boy perspective. Imagine how Eslick perceived Herrin's contact(s) and stuffing then running wide? ...., it would make your blood boil too.



So now lets go to the move that we deemed most egregious and openly “dirty”, the now infamous “brake check”. Well was it really. Honestly, as I rewatch it again, I’m stunned at how its clearly Herrin pushing the issue and Eslick taking more of an evasive defensive stance. Watch it again, don’t just comment without looking at the move a few times and slowing it down. Eslick begins to attempt the pass at the exact turn 4 where Herrin has “initiated” contact. Again we see the same scenario play out, watch as Herrin begins to close the line on Eslick, and puts his knee out. At this very point, Eslick sees Herrin out of his peripheral and takes a small look back, watch Herrin continue to close the line. Infact, Herrin does a bobble while closing the line toward Eslick. This bobbling gets Eslicks attention again and takes another look back. Danny looks to be a person who is waiting for Josh to ram him as oppose to brake checking. Eslick is distracted enough with Herrin that he loses slight momentum, but not enough to get a good drive out of the corner and maintain the advantage over Allison who is closing fast also.



On the next lap, with 4 to go, on the very same turn 4 where all the .... is happening, this time Eslick again takes the same line, Herrin again comes along side but then falls in line and no problems.



Speed then goes to a commercial. So we don’t get to see Herrin’s crash live. But in the replay we see what happens. And guess where? Yup, turn 4, where Herrin has been ....... around on Eslick. But this time Herrin in on the inside, Eslick is on the outside going into the turn. Herrin has trouble holding his tight line and leaves a crease. Eslick having a wide entry has the momentum and drive to capitalize on the crease left by Herrin, and this is where the contact its made. Herrin crashes out. Its this incident that hands Cardenas the title because Eslick drive is interrupted and Matin slips through.



So you tell me, we always say we want these dudes to battle for the wins, and especially in this situation, the championship, in retrospect, was Eslicks move all that “dirty”? Don’t answer just from your gut, but do your homework. Watch the race again, lap by lap, incident by incident. When I first saw the race, my first reaction was to say Eslick had ridden too aggressive. But not after watching it.



....... Bopper
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I don't know why you guys continue to defend Eslick. Are you forgetting race 1 where he kept trying to do the same thing but failed because Herrin had traction due to a dry track. He continued in race 2 and finally succeeded. If you were just to watch just the incident you could say it was a racing incident but after reviewing race 1 and 2 it was clear that he was repeatedly trying to punt him.

Jumkie what Eslick did was just as low as what Chad Reed did to Stewart with the execption that Reeds move never affected the outcome of the championship,

You are very vocal in your hatred of Reed for this behavior so how is it that you can defend Eslick for similar behavior that culminated in a worse outcome



Well buddy, I just watched the last race (race #2) again and above is my take lap by lap, in super slow motion, from start to finish. The Reed move was completely different, not even in the same ball park! Reed's move was out of desperation, where Chad tried to t-bone Stewart. That is not the case in this race where Herrin several times chose to make contact with Eslick once he had already been passed. That is a FACT. The screen doesn't lie. If there was any ill intention, I'd have to defer to Herrin would not just once, not just twice, but three times chose to make contact in that very same corner. Not to mention stuffing Eslick on turn one then running him wide, so wide that Herrin almost highsided because he ran to the edge and touching the paint and a puddle along the cusp of the tarmac. Watch the crash again. Its a classic overtaking which was an 'outside-inside' pass. Herrin chose a different trajectory into that turn from his previous attempts and Eslick adjusted. That is fast thinking on Danny's part. Herrin did not hold his line and left a crease. This is classic dude. Nothing out of the ordinary. Eslick had the momentum and drive because he chose to counter Herrin's approach to the turn by taking an outside line that would enable him to drive into the apex if Herrin left a door open, which is exactly what happened. If anything, this was the point where Herrin's insistence on passing Eslick on a corner for which, the entire race, he was out matched, was misguided stubbornness; which resulted in his crashing and causing Cardenas to take the lead.



.... REED.
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